2013 Hybrid MPG Results

[coach81]

Well finally did my second fillup and Fuelly has calculated just above sticker for that last fillup (about 3/4 of a tank). Car still only at about 550 miles, so still breaking in and room for improvement. I'm sure once I do a long highway trip from NC to PA this will drop, but for my regular work commute, I am loving it. :happy feet:

Nice MPG!!!

[hybridbear]

Well finally did my second fillup and Fuelly has calculated just above sticker for that last fillup (about 3/4 of a tank). Car still only at about 550 miles, so still breaking in and room for improvement. I'm sure once I do a long highway trip from NC to PA this will drop, but for my regular work commute, I am loving it. :happy feet:

 

Awesome MPG!

 

See acdii, the problem isn't with the Fusions overall, it's with your car. Like I wrote about in the topic on the problems with the EPA tests and the Fusions' design it may not be realistic to get 47 MPG all the time in the city and on the highway, but there is no doubt in my mind that on the EPA test cycles the car really did achieve 47 MPG city and highway. We've found that when our driving mirrors the EPA test cycle patterns we can regularly get over 50 MPG. The problem is that most consumers' driving patterns will NOT mirror the EPA cycles.

[GreenAussie]

I'm just curious if you are driving the car like acdii says he'd have to in order to get 40+ mpg or are you just driving like you would a normal car?

 

Not quite sure how to answer that. I am a fuel efficient driver. In my C Class (Rated 25/19) I would get 29/23. I have changed my driving style a bit with the fusion as follows.

1) First, I usually accelerate at a moderate rate (unless crossing traffic, merging etc), by that I mean no more than 2.5 increments out of 5 on the KW meter when gas engine running

2) I turn on the heated seats but leave off the heating until the engine has warmed up.

3) When it switches to EV+ in my development I keep it in electric mode to my house.

4) I have figured out what is the right moderate pressure to get max regen on the brakes. This usually means start breaking a little earlier when coming up to a red light

 

Other than that I have not changed my driving style all that much. One Item I have noticed is that temp has a real effect on efficiency. For me it is very consistent. Take a baseline of about 40 MPG at 30 dec F; for every 10 deg increase I will get 4-5 additional MPG (At least up to 60 deg, that’s the warmest I got). So I would say If I was say in PA, I am sure my average mileage would drop to about 37-39MPG for the same trip.

 

One other think to note is that I do keep my car in a garage and I think if it was out in the colder weather overnight the effect would be a 5 MPG drop on my trip to work in the morning.

Edited February 14, 2013 by GreenAussie

[Fynack]

Well finally did my second fillup and Fuelly has calculated just above sticker for that last fillup (about 3/4 of a tank). Car still only at about 550 miles, so still breaking in and room for improvement. I'm sure once I do a long highway trip from NC to PA this will drop, but for my regular work commute, I am loving it. :happy feet:

 

What does your regular commute consist of? mileage, speed, terrain

[Fynack]

Awesome MPG!

 

See acdii, the problem isn't with the Fusions overall, it's with your car. Like I wrote about in the topic on the problems with the EPA tests and the Fusions' design it may not be realistic to get 47 MPG all the time in the city and on the highway, but there is no doubt in my mind that on the EPA test cycles the car really did achieve 47 MPG city and highway. We've found that when our driving mirrors the EPA test cycle patterns we can regularly get over 50 MPG. The problem is that most consumers' driving patterns will NOT mirror the EPA cycles.

 

So Ford ran the EPA test and got 47mpg but they knew that in the real world that wasnt going to be possible, yet they still marketed as 47mpg. Sounds like fraud to me. Yes, they can say ""EPA TESTED AT 47mpg"" in a lawsuit but people arent going to sit by and get 35-37mpg and go "no one ever gets epa estimates" and live with it. Especially when its 20 to 25% below the advertised EPA estimates. If I were getting 40.5 I wouldnt complain and thats still almost 9% lower then advertised epa. Also I am a first time hybrid driver but after 2500 miles ive learned how to squeeze every mile out of this thing. I also think the cold has an affect on MPG but this is ridiculous is the temperature alone is taking 20 to 25% of my MPGs. All i know is I need a partial refund or a complete buy back.

 

Also are all hybrid this painful to drive where you have to watch the speedometer , ev, and of course the road.

[hybridbear]

So Ford ran the EPA test and got 47mpg but they knew that in the real world that wasnt going to be possible, yet they still marketed as 47mpg. Sounds like fraud to me. Yes, they can say ""EPA TESTED AT 47mpg"" in a lawsuit but people arent going to sit by and get 35-37mpg and go "no one ever gets epa estimates" and live with it. Especially when its 20 to 25% below the advertised EPA estimates. If I were getting 40.5 I wouldnt complain and thats still almost 9% lower then advertised epa. Also I am a first time hybrid driver but after 2500 miles ive learned how to squeeze every mile out of this thing. I also think the cold has an affect on MPG but this is ridiculous is the temperature alone is taking 20 to 25% of my MPGs. All i know is I need a partial refund or a complete buy back.

 

Also are all hybrid this painful to drive where you have to watch the speedometer , ev, and of course the road.

 

Is your FFH from the same build week as acdii's? Could be that you have a bad one like his. Have you been to the dealer about your fuel economy?

[Fynack]

Is your FFH from the same build week as acdii's? Could be that you have a bad one like his. Have you been to the dealer about your fuel economy?

yes, and they say all is well but theyll see what Ford has to say. So far their saying its cause it cold....period

[hybridbear]

Not quite sure how to answer that. I am a fuel efficient driver. In my C Class (Rated 25/19) I would get 29/23. I have changed my driving style a bit with the fusion as follows.

1) First, I usually accelerate at a moderate rate (unless crossing traffic, merging etc), by that I mean no more than 2.5 increments out of 5 on the KW meter when gas engine running

2) I turn on the heated seats but leave off the heating until the engine has warmed up.

3) When it switches to EV+ in my development I keep it in electric mode to my house.

4) I have figured out what is the right moderate pressure to get max regen on the brakes. This usually means start breaking a little earlier when coming up to a red light

 

Other than that I have not changed my driving style all that much. One Item I have noticed is that temp has a real effect on efficiency. For me it is very consistent. Take a baseline of about 40 MPG at 30 dec F; for every 10 deg increase I will get 4-5 additional MPG (At least up to 60 deg, that’s the warmest I got). So I would say If I was say in PA, I am sure my average mileage would drop to about 37-39MPG for the same trip.

 

One other think to note is that I do keep my car in a garage and I think if it was out in the colder weather overnight the effect would be a 5 MPG drop on my trip to work in the morning.

 

Good hybrid driving tips, we try to do the same, although it's a little harder to not use the heat in MN

 

You are dead on with the temperature effect. Right now with temperatures well below freezing we struggle to get 40 MPG in the city, when temperatures are in the 30s then 40 MPG city is easy, when it was 70 in California we were doing 50 MPG

[acdii]

Well, I dont know if y'all saw the video I posted in the 13 that shows how it is supposed to get 40 MPG, but just for the hell of it, going to do the same again in my 2010 showing how I normally drive it to get 38-40 MPG on the same roads. The scan gauge will be off a bit as it is not calibrated to the 2010.

 

Oh by the way, that dash computer, its a Feel Good Meter, it is normal to have a 10% variance on the plus side. The SM and Ford Engineer both said it read higher than their IDS and normally does. Dont take it for granted, trust but verify and dont be surprised if your actual is lower than computed, "it's Normal".

[hybridbear]

Well, I dont know if y'all saw the video I posted in the 13 that shows how it is supposed to get 40 MPG, but just for the hell of it, going to do the same again in my 2010 showing how I normally drive it to get 38-40 MPG on the same roads. The scan gauge will be off a bit as it is not calibrated to the 2010.

 

Oh by the way, that dash computer, its a Feel Good Meter, it is normal to have a 10% variance on the plus side. The SM and Ford Engineer both said it read higher than their IDS and normally does. Dont take it for granted, trust but verify and dont be surprised if your actual is lower than computed, "it's Normal".

 

Where did you post the video?

[acdii]

Where did you post the video?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=506827049359434

 

I have 2 more I can link if you want, but one should be enough to get the idea.

 

Tonight test drove a used 2012 Camry hybrid, fully loaded, easily got 41.7 in it, then road tested an Avalon, got 40 in it. Each one was about a 30 minute drive from cold. The Camry had 14K on it, so it was broke in, and the Avalon had 335 miles on it. Cant afford the Avalon, but it sure was nice. We can afford the Camry, but still want to give the Ford one last chance, so going to a different Ford dealer who has a Hybrid built in December that I want to test drive, and see if it is easier to get 40 in, and if it does, will hit up my dealer one more time to look into a deal.

 

I really cant imagine this car being this hard to get good mileage in

[fusionTX]

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=506827049359434

 

I have 2 more I can link if you want, but one should be enough to get the idea.

 

Tonight test drove a used 2012 Camry hybrid, fully loaded, easily got 41.7 in it, then road tested an Avalon, got 40 in it. Each one was about a 30 minute drive from cold. The Camry had 14K on it, so it was broke in, and the Avalon had 335 miles on it. Cant afford the Avalon, but it sure was nice. We can afford the Camry, but still want to give the Ford one last chance, so going to a different Ford dealer who has a Hybrid built in December that I want to test drive, and see if it is easier to get 40 in, and if it does, will hit up my dealer one more time to look into a deal.

 

I really cant imagine this car being this hard to get good mileage in

Last I heard you had decided on a Lincoln MKT. i do think it's a good idea for you to test drive another 2013 FFH.

[hybridbear]

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=506827049359434

 

I have 2 more I can link if you want, but one should be enough to get the idea.

 

Tonight test drove a used 2012 Camry hybrid, fully loaded, easily got 41.7 in it, then road tested an Avalon, got 40 in it. Each one was about a 30 minute drive from cold. The Camry had 14K on it, so it was broke in, and the Avalon had 335 miles on it. Cant afford the Avalon, but it sure was nice. We can afford the Camry, but still want to give the Ford one last chance, so going to a different Ford dealer who has a Hybrid built in December that I want to test drive, and see if it is easier to get 40 in, and if it does, will hit up my dealer one more time to look into a deal.

 

I really cant imagine this car being this hard to get good mileage in

 

How do you get your EV threshhold to go up so high on the Empower screen? I saw in the video that your EV threshhold was all the way up to 3 bars worth of power demand before the ICE would kick on. Ours is never that high. Even with a full battery or in EV+ mode it only ever gets up to about 2 or 2.5 bars for the maximum threshhold. Your battery was only about 75% full and you were still getting an EV threshhold that was really high!! Do you know why?

[jeff_h]

So Ford ran the EPA test and got 47mpg but they knew that in the real world that wasnt going to be possible, yet they still marketed as 47mpg. Sounds like fraud to me. Yes, they can say ""EPA TESTED AT 47mpg"" in a lawsuit but people arent going to sit by and get 35-37mpg and go "no one ever gets epa estimates" and live with it. Especially when its 20 to 25% below the advertised EPA estimates. If I were getting 40.5 I wouldnt complain and thats still almost 9% lower then advertised epa. Also I am a first time hybrid driver but after 2500 miles ive learned how to squeeze every mile out of this thing. I also think the cold has an affect on MPG but this is ridiculous is the temperature alone is taking 20 to 25% of my MPGs. All i know is I need a partial refund or a complete buy back.

 

Also are all hybrid this painful to drive where you have to watch the speedometer , ev, and of course the road.

 

I think you noted somewhere that you have mostly short trips, right? If so, that's where your MPG is suffering - if one's driving is known to be short trips, and you really are interested in great MPG, then an Energi is the thing to buy... though most find that a bit cost-prohibitive to say the least.

 

Yes if someone wants to get the range of MPG possible in a hybrid, one's learned driving behavior has to change. Drive it like a conventional car and you will get conventional MPG.

[acdii]

How do you get your EV threshhold to go up so high on the Empower screen? I saw in the video that your EV threshhold was all the way up to 3 bars worth of power demand before the ICE would kick on. Ours is never that high. Even with a full battery or in EV+ mode it only ever gets up to about 2 or 2.5 bars for the maximum threshhold. Your battery was only about 75% full and you were still getting an EV threshhold that was really high!! Do you know why?

Engine temps! I was surprised to see that too when we went on our test drive, because like you, I never saw it that high. I think what happens is the very slow acceleration to 60 MPH heats the engine up quicker, so once it hits 170* then that bar goes up like that.

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, they COULD have found something, tweaked it, and didn't tell anyone. I wouldn't put it past them either.

[jeff_h]

Engine temps! I was surprised to see that too when we went on our test drive, because like you, I never saw it that high. I think what happens is the very slow acceleration to 60 MPH heats the engine up quicker, so once it hits 170* then that bar goes up like that.

 

I'm sure you showed your Service Mgr the pics that you've posted here... did you have that scangauge hooked up during your test drive with them, or was that not possible? I would think that a software glitch (I guess?) that is preventing the proper thermostat function and thus preventing proper operating temp would have been a valid complaint for which the dealer could actually do some verifiable work and adjustments...

[acdii]

According to them, if their $40,000 laptop doesn't see a problem, then it doesn't exist. They looked at the pics and everything and according to Ford, those are normal temps. The software is specifically designed to work with the Hybrid systems. So if there is a software glitch in the laptop that mirrors an issue with the car, then it would appear normal to them. They said it got up to 198*, but They also drove it for 4 hours and put 100 miles on the car. Yeah, I can drive it for 2 hours and get the temps up, doesnt help much when it takes an hour to warm up, and my drive is under an hour.

 

Whatever, I just need to stop messing with it and move on. This new Ford designed Hybrid system aint like the old one, so who the hell knows whats normal and whats not.

[hybridbear]

Engine temps! I was surprised to see that too when we went on our test drive, because like you, I never saw it that high. I think what happens is the very slow acceleration to 60 MPH heats the engine up quicker, so once it hits 170* then that bar goes up like that.

 

Then again, they COULD have found something, tweaked it, and didn't tell anyone. I wouldn't put it past them either.

 

Hmmmm...even when we were in California where it was warm our EV threshhold never went that high. If you look on the Engage screen to see each power meter separately you can see that 3 bars in the max output of the electric motor. Your Empower threshhold is going all the way up to the maximum power level the EV motor can output, ours doesn't do that. Most of the time the threshhold to engage EV when driving with the ICE is around 1 bar and the maximum level EV will do with a full battery is just above 2 bars...

 

Does your EV threshhold always go that high? Maybe that is contributing to your MPG woes too...I think that because in our car the EV threshhold doesn't go as high we kick into ICE mode under higher load demands when the ICE is more efficient. This also prevents us from draining the battery really fast under acceleration. It seems like usually when accelerating from a stop I can get up to about 20-30 MPH before the ICE will kick in. If the EV threshhold went up so high I would never get the ICE to kick in when accelerating normally.

[hybridbear]

I think you noted somewhere that you have mostly short trips, right? If so, that's where your MPG is suffering - if one's driving is known to be short trips, and you really are interested in great MPG, then an Energi is the thing to buy... though most find that a bit cost-prohibitive to say the least.

 

Yes if someone wants to get the range of MPG possible in a hybrid, one's learned driving behavior has to change. Drive it like a conventional car and you will get conventional MPG.

 

 

So Ford ran the EPA test and got 47mpg but they knew that in the real world that wasnt going to be possible, yet they still marketed as 47mpg. Sounds like fraud to me. Yes, they can say ""EPA TESTED AT 47mpg"" in a lawsuit but people arent going to sit by and get 35-37mpg and go "no one ever gets epa estimates" and live with it. Especially when its 20 to 25% below the advertised EPA estimates. If I were getting 40.5 I wouldnt complain and thats still almost 9% lower then advertised epa. Also I am a first time hybrid driver but after 2500 miles ive learned how to squeeze every mile out of this thing. I also think the cold has an affect on MPG but this is ridiculous is the temperature alone is taking 20 to 25% of my MPGs. All i know is I need a partial refund or a complete buy back.

 

Also are all hybrid this painful to drive where you have to watch the speedometer , ev, and of course the road.

 

 

yes, and they say all is well but theyll see what Ford has to say. So far their saying its cause it cold....period

 

So there's the answer. Between the short trips, cold winter and the fact that your car, like acdii's, appears to have a build issue you get poor fuel economy. Hopefully you'll get resolution soon from Ford.

[brcd131]

Hopefully you'll get resolution soon from Ford.

My guess is that Ford is not looking for a resolution because in their eyes there is no problem - they've already proved this to acdii. Because there are people getting the MPGs, those who don't are not driving the car correctly. Case closed.

[acdii]

My guess is that Ford is not looking for a resolution because in their eyes there is no problem - they've already proved this to acdii. Because there are people getting the MPGs, those who don't are not driving the car correctly. Case closed.

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. This is basically what I was told. The Service Manager doesnt like this answer, but there isnt a thing he can do. As far as Ford is concerned this car is running perfectly. As for the EV bar, it never got that high in all the time I drove it, only when the SM drove it when I was with him did I see it go that high, and then when I drove it that same way, that is when I see it. I didn't drive it as well as he did, mainly because having an 18 Wheeler on my ass pushed me to keep it over 50.

 

AFAIC Ford built the car to ace EPA tests as a marketing strategy, and is relying on the Your Mileage May Vary clause. So if you cant achieve their EPA ratings, so what.

[hybridbear]

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. This is basically what I was told. The Service Manager doesnt like this answer, but there isnt a thing he can do. As far as Ford is concerned this car is running perfectly. As for the EV bar, it never got that high in all the time I drove it, only when the SM drove it when I was with him did I see it go that high, and then when I drove it that same way, that is when I see it. I didn't drive it as well as he did, mainly because having an 18 Wheeler on my ass pushed me to keep it over 50.

 

AFAIC Ford built the car to ace EPA tests as a marketing strategy, and is relying on the Your Mileage May Vary clause. So if you cant achieve their EPA ratings, so what.

 

How did he drive it to get the EV threshhold that high?

[acdii]

How did he drive it to get the EV threshhold that high?

Good question, but it does go up that high now, but only after I have been driving for at least an hour or more, and only after that does the engine temp stay at 180*. Only on Empower by itself, if you use the same screen as your myview though, it doesnt go that high.

[hybridbear]

Good question, but it does go up that high now, but only after I have been driving for at least an hour or more, and only after that does the engine temp stay at 180*. Only on Empower by itself, if you use the same screen as your myview though, it doesnt go that high.

 

Strange, I wonder if I'll ever see my EV threshhold go that high...

[acdii]

Well like I said, I don't think its normal having to drive the car they way he showed me to get decent MPG like you get. Especially not when you can get into any other Hybrid and get at or very near their EPA numbers. The fact my EV screen is different than yours, makes it even more suspicious.

 

Doesn't really matter, soon it will be somebody else's problem. Going to be tough going without a car for two or more months, but gotta do what I gotta do.