2013 Hybrid MPG Results

[DeeCee]

As posted in real world mpg thread:

 

Fourth fill up today at 1611 miles with a total of 36 gallons used for an actual of 44.7 mpg. Cars computer reports lifetime average of 45.3 with 798 EV miles, 143.5 Regen miles and braking efficiency at 96%. Last tank full was lowest to date at 40.4 mpg. Finally did some interstate travel at 65-70 mph on this tank plus cooler weather and snow/slush.

[acdii]

Odd, mine shows 707 EV and 81 regen over 4500 miles. That display never resets, and shows everything from day one. Considering I did a full reset only 400 miles ago.

[robdal]

Just got my Hybrid SE 4 days ago and am very dissapointed in the MPG. I am driving just like grandma did. My acceleration is so slow I am sure I am ticking off all the people behind me. I coast into red lights and stop signs. My branking effeciency regeneration is at 100% most of the time. When I look at the average MPG on the left instrument panel it says 26mpg. I even reset that meter and started the average all over again, really trying to drive like Grandma and it still only says 26mpg. I have only driven in the city on flat roads as Dallas doesn't really have any hills. The heat is on and no AC is being used. I would have been very happy with 35MPG.

 

Average trip is about 8 miles. Temperature is between 40 and 47.

 

Can anyone help? What am I doing wrong? Is the car deffective ? Is the Average MPG meter not working correctly ?

 

On the Prius after each trip you make when you shut the engien off, it tells you the MPG for that trip. My Priius friends are all reporting great mileage.

Edited January 2, 2013 by robdal

[robdal]

Having the climate control on auto runs the ICE till it's warm enough to heat the cabin. It will not go into EV and that kills your short cold driving mpg. But don't freeze. This is a comfortable car, just realize it takes a lot of gasoline to do this in cold weather. It 's using the same extra amount of gas as any car but what was a 2 mpg. hit in your old F-150 getting 15 mpg. is now a 6 mpg. loss in your 45 mpg FFH 2. This angst happens to every new hybrid driver that buys their car in the fall in the North. These cars also have a 2 mpg. loss for every 10ºF decrease. If they did the tests at 60ºF, at 20ºF you will lose 8 mpg ( At 90ºF you will gain 6 mpg ). There will be wild variations in short trips in all seasons but more so in winter. Make sure you reset counters to give you up to date tank mileages. Display the bars at the longest interval.

acdii, I don't understand why the FFH-2 should have more coasting drag than the FFH-1.

I have the same problem. Short trips of 7 miles at 40 degrees. However this is nothing compared to the summer in Dallas where temperatures will be between 90 and 100 all summer. If the heat is reducing my MPG to 26, what the heck is going to happen when I turn on the AC?

[terryb]

Heat is generated by the ICE. A/C is electrically powered. The mpg thief in the heat is cooling the HV battery.

[jeff_h]

I mentioned this in another thread somewhere, maybe one on tires? I wondered if either the difference in tires might make a difference (but doesn't seem a 10MPG difference), and I also wondered about maybe the Lithium-Ion HV battery being more temperature-sensitive than the Ni-MH battery? So below is a thought from thinking logically and not from any technical knowledge of battery capacities, ranges, temperature behavior, etc.

 

Anyway, I wondered about this because back when I had a Prius and visited those forums regularly, various posters would write about how great it would be when a Li-Ion battery could be used since it could hold so much more energy for longer etc etc etc. But then there were others that wrote how the main impediment was keeping the temperatures on the Li-Ion battery stable, apparently they are more volatile than the Ni-MH batteries, again just going from what I read from various others who have posted, and assuming that some of them were accurate in their observations. But given all that I guess that a technical solution was achieved as here we are with Li-Ion batteries in the cars, right?

 

Then thinking of other posts, or maybe I saw it in an earlier article about the 2013 Fusion Hybrids on Motor Trend, Autoweek, wherever, and someone confirm or deny this if it rings a bell with them also, or if they know for sure one way or another -- does the Li-Ion HV battery in the 2013 FFH have liquid cooling that comes from the engine? If so, that is a difference between the 2010-2012 FFH and the 2013 as I don't think the 2010-2012 had this, pretty sure it does not.

 

So if this IS the case, then when you have cooler (doesn't even have to be really cold) weather you may suffer on shorter trips as the sensor back there in the HV battery area says "it's below X degrees back here and thus not yet to my optimal temperature, ICE keep on running"... this, accompanied with a 2.0L engine not generating as much displacement as the 2.5L engine and thus maybe not as much heat either, it needs to work more to get things to running temperature (not to mention to heat the cabin). And likewise the really hot weather may hamper MPG as the ICE will need to keep running more to keep the coolant flowing throughout, and to keep the engine cooler. However during those sweet-spot climates and in longer drives where the optimal temp is maintained, there is where you will find the best MPG and also likely where the tests were done to come up with the MPG numbers that went onto the window sticker? I don't know how those ratings tests are conducted, but assume they would be conducted at a temp that would be optimal, right?

 

Again, I don't have any real knowledge on this, just trying to put 2 + 2 together and think of things that changed between the models that could be real factors. Sure it could be tires, but I don't think to the degree that many are seeing. Sure if could be driving habits, but I've seen posts by those who have had a hybrid for many moons and so while that's always a possibility, again I don't think it's to the degree that many are seeing. So trying to think through the "what ELSE changed?" I have to wonder if this is another factor in the mix, and if someone confirms that yes there is now liquid cooling to the big HV battery (where it was not before) that would affect how much the ICE runs to keep things happy back there, well I have to wonder how much (more than the 2012-2012) of a factor that really becomes when wondering why so many are unhappy with their MPG.

 

No need to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about, I already admitted that up front, just trying to think of other possibilities for the less-than-stellar MPG and throwing out some more food for thought.

[acdii]

Ha Jeff H you don't know what your talking about! J/K :)

 

 

I don't know about the cooling system, but Lion packs are more susceptible to heat and can be damaged very easily by overheating, so keeping them cool is critical, as far as cold, not so much. If the HVAC is off and you have at least 75% charge in the battery, then you can drive off in EV on a cold start in temps under 30*. I have done it a few times now in the new car, the 2010 though, when it gets cold out,, the ICE starts the moment you turn the key, HVAC on or off, doesn't matter. If the HVAC is on in the 13, then you will be on ICE until it fully warms up, and may still run while on battery, you can tell by the instant MPG bar, it goes full 60 but stays white. Turn off the HVAC and it will switch to EV.

 

Tip on the HVAC, don't use the auto setting if its in the 20-40 range, switch to low blower and defrost-floor setting, at this setting it uses very little heat from the engine but keeps the windows clear and your feet warm. Use the seat heaters, and gloves and you can get the most out of your gas this way.

 

Tires can impact MPG in many ways. Tread pattern, pressure, diameter etc. Michelin Energy Savers A/S has the best record for improving MPG by as much as 3 MPG over other LRR tires, and can go even more over performance based tires. The drawback, less traction in wet or snowy weather. The only way to know for sure is to replace the 18" Goodyears with 17" Michelins and compare the MPG over time. I have considered doing so, but dont want to dish out the cash to try it, in the end, even if it proves to be the case for the poor FE in mine, it wont pay back over time until they have to be replaced again. When I wear out the ones on the car, then going to 17" rims and tires would be the better option.

 

Finally, the old and new systems share only one thing, the name Hybrid. The new system is a totally new design, new battery pack, new transmission, new engine, new programming, heck even the dash is new. The thing with this new system is the moment you take your foot off the gas it goes into regen more aggressively than the old system does. That is why I believe my new one slows down so fast where my old one will coast. The new one also fully charges the pack where the old one keeps it at 50%. The way I provved it out was with a fully charged pack in the car, I lifted my foot and the car coasted further than before, but as soon as I used 25% of the pack, it went back to slowing down quickly.

 

I also believe this is why the highway MPG isn't like it is on my 2010, most of my daily drive is at 55 MPH, so the old one I can get it in a groove where the MPG gauge is between 38 and 42 MPG for most of the driving, the new one uses EV, so when you are on ICE it is driving the car AND charging the pack up to 63 MPH. This is why the Eco Cruise is the preferred choice for highway speeds, the old P&G tricks no longer work at those speeds, but at higher than 63, they do. Once you get the battery fully charged above 65 MPH the gauge will creep up to about 38, but I rarely ever saw it go above 40, and I doubt I would see that in my 2010 either at those speeds. Since below 63 it kicks over to EV I never see the instant rise above 38. With all of what I have observed so far, its the programming that is preventing me from getting anything over the 38 mark on highway. In city traffic, I am getting it over 40, but I do very little city driving, mostly highway, which is why having a car rated at 47 Highway sounds like such a great idea, but in reality, if it can only do 38, better off driving a Focus and saving $10K.

 

All speculation at this point concerning the poor highway MPG until they repair the current CEL issue. For all I know, there could have been a bad sensor somewhere feeding in more fuel than the computer realized. My hand calculations don't match up with the reported MPG on the dash.

[B25Nut]

The HV battery is cooled by air drawn in from the passenger compartment. That is why the owner's manual says to never place anything behind the rear seats under the rear window since the air inlets could become blocked.

[coach81]

I hope I get "good car" like DeeCee!!!

[acdii]

The HV battery is cooled by air drawn in from the passenger compartment. That is why the owner's manual says to never place anything behind the rear seats under the rear window since the air inlets could become blocked.

Thats what I thought, wasn't sure in the new car since I never really looked, but it is that way in the 10. Gave my wife a puzzled look the first time we heard the blower kick on back there, it rarely every comes on.

[DeeCee]

I hope I get "good car" like DeeCee!!!

I sure hope you do too! Anxious to see how you do since you are in the same general mid south area. So far I have no complaints. Hope the dealer finds the problem with acdii's FFH. Something is just not right with his car. I have not seen any excessive drag on mine like he reports happening all the timne. Mine coasts just fine.

[terryb]

Brought mine home tonight so I have a whopping 14 personal miles on it. It showed NO strange behavior so I have high hopes. It was charging the battery as I have become accustomed in the '10 and running in EV mode as expected. I've got the 18" Goodyears but "ain't skeered" about this car so far.

 

The '10 tried to talk me out of the trade by providing 50+ mpg on the way over 14 mile trip.

Edited January 3, 2013 by terryb

[pers69]

Congrats, terry. We are all pulling for you to get DeeCee-like mileage :-)

[acdii]

Well someone will be happy to get the 10 then! :) I am so glad I kept mine instead of trading it for the new one, at least I did gain some MPG trading in the F150 for it! LOL

[ptjones]

Does anyone live in the greater Atlanta area? I have an Idea for the Fusion to increase mileage by 3-4mpg like I have done with the CMAX. Is anyone interested?

[coach81]

Brought mine home tonight so I have a whopping 14 personal miles on it. It showed NO strange behavior so I have high hopes. It was charging the battery as I have become accustomed in the '10 and running in EV mode as expected. I've got the 18" Goodyears but "ain't skeered" about this car so far.

 

The '10 tried to talk me out of the trade by providing 50+ mpg on the way over 14 mile trip.

 

Congrats Bro! So happy for you! Hopefully I will be as thrilled as you early next week!!!!

 

Congrats, terry. We are all pulling for you to get DeeCee-like mileage :-)

 

Amen!!! I hope to get some DeeCee results also!!!

[acdii]

Keeping my fingers crossed that the problem with mine has been, or will soon be located.

[terryb]

Mine has thrown me a couple of short trips in the mid 40s ambient is there also so I have high hopes.

Got the 18" Goodyears, <100 miles on the clock. Looks just fine and dandy so far.

acdii, I hope your dealer can get yours straightened out and a couple of others here can get right and we'll be bck to normal launch wrinkles.

[acdii]

Keeping my fingers crossed, the Goodyears really handle well, and would hate to lose that with other tires. so confidence is high that they can resolve it.

[DeeCee]

Keeping my fingers crossed, the Goodyears really handle well, and would hate to lose that with other tires. so confidence is high that they can resolve it.

Hope your dealer has some good people trained/experienced and willing to call in ford HQ help if needed.

This is a new car and new power train and most service techs probably don't havre a lot of experience yet.

[acdii]

The service manager himself is working on it, and has been in direct contact with Ford since day one. It's Ford that I am having issues with, not my dealer or mekinik. They have been doing a great job working with me, and would like to continue this with them, so Ford needs to step up on this one and get this resolved. Day #5 in the shop.

[DeeCee]

Good to hear. Hope Ford steps up to the plate and gets this resolved.

[coach81]

+1 DeeCee

[Fynack]

Those of us getting the sucky mpg could also join the class action lawsuit ... its an option if the mileage doesnt get better

 

http://mccunewright.com/assets/news/Pitkin-FILED-COMPLAINT.pdf

[acdii]

Well got the car back with new plugs and no problem found! Ford told him release the car and see if the problem returns. I drove it to Sharon, topped off the tank, at least I thought I did, but as I drove down the road noticed it was 1/8th below full. I reset everything and drove from the gas station 11.5 miles fully warmed up and got 36.

 

No problem found and no change. Driving to Waukesha on Sunday so, we shall see, but confidence is very low. Tempted to go to a different dealer that has another Hybrid and take it for a test drive and compare the two.