What do you think of the Chevy Volt?

[lolder]

The testers are reporting that the Volt ICE mpg. is in the mid to low 30's, not 40.

[VonoreTn]

Yeah right, they just decided to throw a transmission in there at the last minute. Are you nuts? There's no way that GM could have changed the design any sooner than 2 years ago.

 

I agree. They probably did it 2 years ago, but didn't tell anyone. But we have been hearing about the Volt for 4 years, and somehow the media missed the mechanical hookup until just last month.

 

Trying to compare a Volt after the EV range to the FFH is also pointless. That's like trying to compare a gas Fusion to a Explorer when only one person is driving. When you take any vehicle outside of it's fundamental purpose it won't be as efficient. After EV mode, the Volt will always be handicapped because it must carry around a bunch of dead batteries. How can GM possibly expect to be equal to an FFH that doesn't suffer from that penalty?

 

 

You are stating what was obvious to many of us here. GM did claim that the goal of it's engineers was 50 mpg after the first 40 miles. This was apparently wishful thinking, but a lot of people expected it. The point is that the Volt has been over-sold. It turns out to be a compromise that is not going to get a lot of buyers in my opinion. Look for high sales of the Volts in government fleets, and government subsidized industries.

[lolder]

Here's how it works: http://www.automobilemag.com/green/news/1010_chevy_volt_surprise/index.html

Edited October 14, 2010 by lolder

[mirak]

Here's how it works: http://www.automobilemag.com/green/news/1010_chevy_volt_surprise/index.html

 

I won't pretend that I understood half of the jargon in that article, but the writers seem awfully impressed about all the "innovation" under the hood. At the end of the day, the Volt's a PHEV with a mid-30 mpg once the juice runs out. Meh. Hopefully this technology will be better and cheaper in another 5 years.

[lolder]

I won't pretend that I understood half of the jargon in that article, but the writers seem awfully impressed about all the "innovation" under the hood. At the end of the day, the Volt's a PHEV with a mid-30 mpg once the juice runs out. Meh. Hopefully this technology will be better and cheaper in another 5 years.

There's a link to a diagram somewhere here(My link under VonoreTN post). GM realized a direct drive to the wheels at higher speeds was more efficient than the ICE-generator-motor route. They just haven't done it as well as Toyota and Ford, that's the surprise. The transmission system has some advantages and disadvantages over ours but I don't like the three clutches. Why does the Volt call for premium gas? That's weird! You probably don't have to use it as all cars adjust for lower octane now with only the loss of a few peak horsepower.

The system the Volt uses "shifts gears" in EV mode to limit motor rpms and add the second motor at higher speeds. It's fairly clever but complex. The difference in highway mpg between the ICE mode Volt and the FFH is probably much a factor of the 400 lb. battery. Don't pine for a bigger battery in hybrids.

Edited October 14, 2010 by lolder

[rpoffen]

There's a link to a diagram somewhere here(My link under VonoreTN post). GM realized a direct drive to the wheels at higher speeds was more efficient than the ICE-generator-motor route. They just haven't done it as well as Toyota and Ford, that's the surprise. The transmission system has some advantages and disadvantages over ours but I don't like the three clutches. Why does the Volt call for premium gas? That's weird! You probably don't have to use it as all cars adjust for lower octane now with only the loss of a few peak horsepower.

The system the Volt uses "shifts gears" in EV mode to limit motor rpms and add the second motor at higher speeds. It's fairly clever but complex. The difference in highway mpg between the ICE mode Volt and the FFH is probably much a factor of the 400 lb. battery. Don't pine for a bigger battery in hybrids.

 

I presume that premium gas is required because the engine is only a 1.4l engine and in order to improve efficiency and have it provide enough HP it is turbo charged. Almost all production turbo charged cars require premium gas.

 

This further reduces its effective MPG since you have to factor the added cost of premium gas over regular which is usually at least 7-8% higher, so I would reduce the effective MPG by this amount since the bottom line is always cost, not strictly MPG.

[drolds1]

I presume that premium gas is required because the engine is only a 1.4l engine and in order to improve efficiency and have it provide enough HP it is turbo charged. Almost all production turbo charged cars require premium gas.

 

This further reduces its effective MPG since you have to factor the added cost of premium gas over regular which is usually at least 7-8% higher, so I would reduce the effective MPG by this amount since the bottom line is always cost, not strictly MPG.

 

The Volt's ICE is not turbocharged. It's a NA version of the 1.4L used in the Cruze and develops roughly 84HP.

 

Per GM:

 

The Volt requires premium gasoline because it optimizes engine performance and ensures maximum fuel economy when operating in extended-range mode.

 

The ICE serves as a range extender, so it's not about HP in this application.

[Oman]

Spent some time with the article and diagrams. Wow, it took a lot of work to take a standard full hybrid, and in order to bypass the patents and not look like they are copying existing vehicles, change it enough to make it have more parts to fail and be less efficient.

 

Single planetary, check. Two electric motors, check. ICE that can be switched out of the propulsion system, check. Now add three clutches to make it different than using one of the motors all the time to manage everything.

 

You could argue that they had a hard time coming up with a system that had a large enough battery pack and large enough primary motor to drive the car on EV without running the ICE at all and staying within the design of a full hybrid, but I doubt it. I'm pretty certain they spent most of their time working around patents. Gov't motors did not want to license technology from off-shore Toyota or from the only US car company that did not need a bailout from the tax payers.

 

Quite the disappointment.

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

I presume that premium gas is required because the engine is only a 1.4l engine and in order to improve efficiency and have it provide enough HP it is turbo charged. Almost all production turbo charged cars require premium gas.

 

This further reduces its effective MPG since you have to factor the added cost of premium gas over regular which is usually at least 7-8% higher, so I would reduce the effective MPG by this amount since the bottom line is always cost, not strictly MPG.

[VonoreTn]

If you want to get a more positive perspective on the Volt, go to:

 

My link

 

And then if you really want to study the situation of the Volt merits, read the 4 pages of comments. Keep in mind that the 127 mpg is for a short trip, a trip where the real gas savings is a couple of dollars, assuming they really did get 54 mpg for the after 40 mile portion of the trip (not substantiated by any other Volt testers). I know that I have saved over$1700 in gas in the one year I have been driving my FFH versus the car I would have been driving otherwise, and I haven't had to plug anything in at night.

[lolder]

Spent some time with the article and diagrams. Wow, it took a lot of work to take a standard full hybrid, and in order to bypass the patents and not look like they are copying existing vehicles, change it enough to make it have more parts to fail and be less efficient.

 

Single planetary, check. Two electric motors, check. ICE that can be switched out of the propulsion system, check. Now add three clutches to make it different than using one of the motors all the time to manage everything.

 

You could argue that they had a hard time coming up with a system that had a large enough battery pack and large enough primary motor to drive the car on EV without running the ICE at all and staying within the design of a full hybrid, but I doubt it. I'm pretty certain they spent most of their time working around patents. Gov't motors did not want to license technology from off-shore Toyota or from the only US car company that did not need a bailout from the tax payers.

 

Quite the disappointment.

 

Jon

Precisely!

[xmech2k]

GM Precept A forerunner to the Volt?

 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, these 3 cars were one of the things that drove Toyota to develop the Prius. It's just that the Big 3 were, as usual, short sighted and felt no one wanted to buy high mpg cars.... Toyota kept on course. (Yes, I know they were not suitable for production, but we had the technology, not the wisdom.)

 

Hybrids have been around a long, long time.

Edited October 14, 2010 by xmech2k

[lolder]

This is all so sad. We're fighting trillion dollar wars, and suffering trillion dollar trade deficits mostly for oil.

[Scott A320]

This is all so sad. We're fighting trillion dollar wars, and suffering trillion dollar trade deficits mostly for oil.

 

I completely agree. I used to drive performance autos with a lead foot, but one day chose to use less petroleum. So I researched and purchased the FFH 16 months ago with no regrets.

At the moment fuel prices are stable and hybrids/electrics are less fashionable - but this will inevitably cycle and folks will be caught, once again, with their pants-down.

 

More to the point, GM's recent "revelations" about the Volt's drivetrain are of little personal consequence. Semantics are less important than superior engineering and real-world achievements.

A caravan of Volts is "on tour" and are scheduled into San Diego in the next day or so, with opportunity for public test drives. Unfortunately I'll be at work! Oh well, they should be on display at the traditional

end-of-year auto show at the convention center.