mirak

As it happens, the weather yesterday reached the mid-70s. First genuinely warm day of spring. EV functionality did improve. It's still not what it used to be, but I was able to accelerate veeeeeerrry slowly up to a few MPH before the ICE kicked on, and I was also able to pulse and glide for some flat distances at around 30MPH. The Hybrid Battery indicator also began discharging again almost like normal, although it never dropped below about 50% of the meter. And the green meter (whatever it's called) gave me about a half a "bar" of EV room - I used to get about a full bar. That's one of the oddest quirks about this: when the battery performance begins to deteriorate, you would expect the meter to show the battery being depleted, but it actually shows the battery remaining mostly charged and just refusing to deplete. It's amazing that one genuinely warmish day produced such a dramatic improvement, although it's still far from what it used to be. Maybe it will continue to improve? I'll keep you posted.

I've got the same problem as everyone else. Hybrid functionality is almost completely gone. On colder days (below 50) the ICE kicks on the minute I release the brake pedal. On warmer days the car will at least start moving forward a bit on battery, but the ICE kicks on the moment I apply any acceleration. The days of "pulse and glide" are over - even if I accelerate to about 30mph on a flat surface, the ICE has to stay on to maintain that speed. Mileage has dropped by a few MPG. My car has 115k. I'm the original owner, and purchased it in fall of 2009. I got my airbags replaced, but I really doubt that has anything to do with the problem because I still drove the car intermittently even when I was waiting for the airbag replacement. The car never went more than a few days without being driven at least once. The simple truth seems to be that these batteries are expiring with age/use. I'm pretty angry that I didn't discover this until just outside the warranty window. I can live with the reduced mileage, but I'm more concerned about what all the starting and stopping of the ICE will do to the car in the long run, particularly if the battery performance continue to decline. I'm not sure I want to pay the dealership to tell me what I already know because I'm not ponying up $2-3k for a replacement battery. I'll never get that back in gas savings. If anybody has any luck with Ford standing behind their product, please let us know.

I'm now down to 36.5. Maybe all the "global warming" has spoiled me, but it seems like this been a really COLD winter here in the heartland!

This is quite common. I get service soliciations all the time from local dealers, even though I bought the car out of town. Parts and service is where dealers make most of their money. Unethical? Not really, especially compared to other tricks dealers use. Lots of people recommend servicing your car more frequently than the schedule in the owner's manual. I change my oil every 5k no matter what the scheduke says. I just don't go to the dealer for maintenance. What a rip off.

Welcome to the club! Mine's also a 502A White-Platinum, but a 2010. Really glad I went with the white tri-coat paint. Just got a car wash over the lunch hour, and this car is a gem!

I would rely more on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings than I would on canvassing a message board. I think CR bases its ratings on subscriber surveys (I know I've received two of them so far), and I would expect CR has surveyed at least several hundred FFH owners by now. The ratings are excellent. Plus, the FFH tops the "I would buy it again" list. You're now into the second model year with a 2011, so I wouldn't worry about being an "early adopter." The only thing I might wait for is to see what additional features will be on the 2012 model. At that point, you can either decide to wait for a 2012, or maybe get a better deal on an outgoing 2011.

In my opinion, you're much better off in the long run going the fully-loaded route with the Nav, even if you have to save up a bit longer. It's a great nav system, plus the touch screen adds a lot of fun interactivity to the car's various features (not just Nav, but also music, climate, phone, etc.) and will help your re-sale value. Not sure when the 2012s will roll out, or what new features we can expect. Maybe its worth waiting for.

This is true. If you're that serious about mpg, don't use the heater. (But you could use your heated seats instead, if you've got those. Doesn't seem to have much impact on the battery). Bottom line is, as most have noted, hybrids don't perform as well in cold weather. This isn't something unique to Ford. They still perform better than their non-hybrid counterparts. My long term MPG has dropped from 42 to 38 over the past few months, and it will probably go as low as 35, just like it did last year. When the weather warms up, so does the mpg!

Fit and finish is a very common complaint for the Camry. It's not as good as the FFH. Kind of surprising for Toyota, actually, but they've really let this slip with some recent models. My 2006 Highlander Hybrid had a great interior. Only time will tell about Ford's realiability, but the FFH's have been on the market for over two years now and reliability so far is fantastic. Ford has clearly upped its game.

All great information. Regarding the $750 destination charge - I think you are right that the price on the invoice should already have this rolled in. However, for some confusing reason, the x-plan price listed on the fordpartners website says that the destination charge is additional to the price listed on the site. So, I think the x-plan price listed on the fordpartners website will actually be $750 less than the price you'll see on the invoice (for a base model). Do I have that right? Maybe I'm misreading the fordpartners website. And by the way, you are so right that some dealers will try to slip in extra fees even though they're not supposed to. If you're going the x-plan route, it is a good idea to arrive at the dealer armed with a copy of the rules from the fordpartners website, and also have the Ford Customer Service number programmed in your phone. I can't remember the specifics, but at the last minute my salesman tried to tack on a couple of hundred dollars with an extra fee that he swore was not already included in x-plan. I dialed up customer service to settle the matter, but before I got through to a rep, the salesman came back from the "back office" and offered to waive the fee. Acted like he was doing me a favor. It was a pretty scummy experience but I finally got the right price. I'm sure not all dealers are like that, but be prepared!

I'm a little surprised by that Consumer Reports number, but maybe it's right. If that's the case, you might be able to actually do better than x-plan. Please let us know how that turns out. Regarding the fordpartner website, it's too bad it only lists the x-plan price for the base model. There really isn't a way, that I know of, to determine x-plan price for the specific model you're interested in without looking at the dealer's invoice.

Thanks for the corrections. To the OP, if you're seriously interested in the FFH, I'd go ahead and request an x-plan pin from that site (if you can't otherwise get one), because it can take a while. Also, you're most likely to get a dealer to accept x-plan pricing (or, regardless, get the best price), if the dealer doesn't have to spend a lot of time on the transaction. From the dealer's perspective, he doesn't get much profit out of x-plan, so he's not going to want to do a bunch of test drives, etc. Decide on the car you want, then call some dealers and tell them you're ready to buy today, if they'll meet your price. I prefer doing it by phone because, that way, the dealer knows you're just going to go to the next name on the list if they say no. Finally, you sound like you're pretty sophisticated so you probably already know this, but you can generally get much better financing independently than through the dealer (unless they're offering 0% APR, which I doubt they are on the FFH). I shopped around and found the lowest APR (again, this was spring 2009) using Capital One's "blank check" auto financing program. Super easy, and I saved a lot of money going that route.

I did not realize FFHs were in such short supply. Granted, you're in California, the hybrid capital of the U.S., but that still surprises me. If you want to get a good deal on a FFH, your best bet is using Ford's "x-plan" pricing. X-plan is a special "haggle-free" price program available to friends and family of Ford employees, or employees of certain Ford-affiliated companies, but anybody can get an x-plan pin number, if they know how. The price is a few hundred more than the dealer's true invoice price (which is sometimes lower than the "invoice price" reflected on Edmunds). Also, the only extra fee permitted under x-plan is the standard $750 destination charge, plus a maximum $75 "doc fee" (at least, this was the rule back in 2009). No ridiculous $500 doc fees or other fees dealers try to add on in the back room. Thus, x-plan can result in pretty significant savings. While I have heard of a few people actually doing better than x-plan this summer when dealers were really hurting, x-plan is probably about as good as you can get. Plus, it's haggle-free. Ford actually requires that the x-plan price be printed on each dealer invoice, which the dealer has to show you if you ask to see it. There are two tricks to x-plan: First, the dealers are not required to sell all cars at x-plan price, expecially cars that are in short supply. Thus, even if you find the car you want in CA, the dealer might not accept x-plan for that car. The first dealer I found in KS back in spring 2009 wouldn't take it, because he only had two FFHs on the lot, but I found another dealer across town who would. Second, you need to get yourself an x-plan pin. There's many ways to do this: 1. Did you work for a large company? They might be a Ford affiliate. You can look this up on the internet. 2. Do you have an e-trade account or otherwise buy/sell stock? If you buy one share of stock, you can request an x-plan pin. You can sell the stock at any time. Google it. 3. Do you know anybody who works for Ford? Each employee gets something like 4 x-plan pins per year that they can give out. 4. Go to this website and ask for a pin! Be patient and polite. This is how I got mine.

I took a quick look at Edmunds and you're right, a fully loaded Camry would probably run you about $2500 less than a loaded FFH. That's a pretty significant price difference. It would be difficult to ever recoup that difference in gas savings from the FFH's slightly better MPG. The FFH was much more competitive in early 2009 when it was still eligible for a $1700 tax credit. For me, I'd still pay the price premium because the FFH is so fun to drive. The tech is superior, and I think the interior fit and finish is better, too. If you go to Edmunds, you'll note that one of the criticisms of the Camry is the cheap interior finish, but you can judge for yourself by sitting in both cars. With either car, I'd definitely recommend the leather. The FFH's instrument panel does have 4 different display modes, from very basic information to very detailed. There are no personalized settings that I know of, but I've got a 2010 model. As for the Ford / Toyota licensing issues, there's a lot of reading on the internet about that. Some say it's true, some say its false. I don't really care. All that really matters to me is how the car performs, and the FFH gets better MPG than the Camry. It's actually pretty telling that this is all the Toyota salesman had to say! The FFH eats the Camry's lunch in most respects, but that price difference is pretty significant...

I chose a FFH over the Prius and the Camry, mainly because I liked the interior and exterior better, and the tech was superior. The LCD instrument panels are awesome, and the "mood ring" lighting is a fun touch. by comparison, the Camry just seemed like a boring old Camry. There's very little to distinguish (besides MPG) that it is a hybrid. You're wife might actually like that, if she isn't into the tech. Both cars have great reliability, and both appear to do about the same MPG-wise (I think the FFH gets slightly better MPG, and the advanced instrument panels make it easier to hypermile). Since your wife isn't itnerested in the tech, I think the choice will really come down to: (a) Price: Don't know how these cars currently stack up in price, but remember that anyone can get access to Ford's x-plan pricing. (B) Interior/Exterior preference: Totally subjective. Don't be afraid to tell the salespeople you're also considering the FFH/Camry, and see what they say! Be sure to report back here what the Toyota salespeople have to say about the FFH.