mirak

As it happens, the weather yesterday reached the mid-70s. First genuinely warm day of spring. EV functionality did improve. It's still not what it used to be, but I was able to accelerate veeeeeerrry slowly up to a few MPH before the ICE kicked on, and I was also able to pulse and glide for some flat distances at around 30MPH. The Hybrid Battery indicator also began discharging again almost like normal, although it never dropped below about 50% of the meter. And the green meter (whatever it's called) gave me about a half a "bar" of EV room - I used to get about a full bar. That's one of the oddest quirks about this: when the battery performance begins to deteriorate, you would expect the meter to show the battery being depleted, but it actually shows the battery remaining mostly charged and just refusing to deplete. It's amazing that one genuinely warmish day produced such a dramatic improvement, although it's still far from what it used to be. Maybe it will continue to improve? I'll keep you posted.

I've got the same problem as everyone else. Hybrid functionality is almost completely gone. On colder days (below 50) the ICE kicks on the minute I release the brake pedal. On warmer days the car will at least start moving forward a bit on battery, but the ICE kicks on the moment I apply any acceleration. The days of "pulse and glide" are over - even if I accelerate to about 30mph on a flat surface, the ICE has to stay on to maintain that speed. Mileage has dropped by a few MPG. My car has 115k. I'm the original owner, and purchased it in fall of 2009. I got my airbags replaced, but I really doubt that has anything to do with the problem because I still drove the car intermittently even when I was waiting for the airbag replacement. The car never went more than a few days without being driven at least once. The simple truth seems to be that these batteries are expiring with age/use. I'm pretty angry that I didn't discover this until just outside the warranty window. I can live with the reduced mileage, but I'm more concerned about what all the starting and stopping of the ICE will do to the car in the long run, particularly if the battery performance continue to decline. I'm not sure I want to pay the dealership to tell me what I already know because I'm not ponying up $2-3k for a replacement battery. I'll never get that back in gas savings. If anybody has any luck with Ford standing behind their product, please let us know.

I'm now down to 36.5. Maybe all the "global warming" has spoiled me, but it seems like this been a really COLD winter here in the heartland!

This is quite common. I get service soliciations all the time from local dealers, even though I bought the car out of town. Parts and service is where dealers make most of their money. Unethical? Not really, especially compared to other tricks dealers use. Lots of people recommend servicing your car more frequently than the schedule in the owner's manual. I change my oil every 5k no matter what the scheduke says. I just don't go to the dealer for maintenance. What a rip off.

Welcome to the club! Mine's also a 502A White-Platinum, but a 2010. Really glad I went with the white tri-coat paint. Just got a car wash over the lunch hour, and this car is a gem!

I would rely more on Consumer Reports' reliability ratings than I would on canvassing a message board. I think CR bases its ratings on subscriber surveys (I know I've received two of them so far), and I would expect CR has surveyed at least several hundred FFH owners by now. The ratings are excellent. Plus, the FFH tops the "I would buy it again" list. You're now into the second model year with a 2011, so I wouldn't worry about being an "early adopter." The only thing I might wait for is to see what additional features will be on the 2012 model. At that point, you can either decide to wait for a 2012, or maybe get a better deal on an outgoing 2011.

In my opinion, you're much better off in the long run going the fully-loaded route with the Nav, even if you have to save up a bit longer. It's a great nav system, plus the touch screen adds a lot of fun interactivity to the car's various features (not just Nav, but also music, climate, phone, etc.) and will help your re-sale value. Not sure when the 2012s will roll out, or what new features we can expect. Maybe its worth waiting for.

This is true. If you're that serious about mpg, don't use the heater. (But you could use your heated seats instead, if you've got those. Doesn't seem to have much impact on the battery). Bottom line is, as most have noted, hybrids don't perform as well in cold weather. This isn't something unique to Ford. They still perform better than their non-hybrid counterparts. My long term MPG has dropped from 42 to 38 over the past few months, and it will probably go as low as 35, just like it did last year. When the weather warms up, so does the mpg!

Fit and finish is a very common complaint for the Camry. It's not as good as the FFH. Kind of surprising for Toyota, actually, but they've really let this slip with some recent models. My 2006 Highlander Hybrid had a great interior. Only time will tell about Ford's realiability, but the FFH's have been on the market for over two years now and reliability so far is fantastic. Ford has clearly upped its game.

All great information. Regarding the $750 destination charge - I think you are right that the price on the invoice should already have this rolled in. However, for some confusing reason, the x-plan price listed on the fordpartners website says that the destination charge is additional to the price listed on the site. So, I think the x-plan price listed on the fordpartners website will actually be $750 less than the price you'll see on the invoice (for a base model). Do I have that right? Maybe I'm misreading the fordpartners website. And by the way, you are so right that some dealers will try to slip in extra fees even though they're not supposed to. If you're going the x-plan route, it is a good idea to arrive at the dealer armed with a copy of the rules from the fordpartners website, and also have the Ford Customer Service number programmed in your phone. I can't remember the specifics, but at the last minute my salesman tried to tack on a couple of hundred dollars with an extra fee that he swore was not already included in x-plan. I dialed up customer service to settle the matter, but before I got through to a rep, the salesman came back from the "back office" and offered to waive the fee. Acted like he was doing me a favor. It was a pretty scummy experience but I finally got the right price. I'm sure not all dealers are like that, but be prepared!

I'm a little surprised by that Consumer Reports number, but maybe it's right. If that's the case, you might be able to actually do better than x-plan. Please let us know how that turns out. Regarding the fordpartner website, it's too bad it only lists the x-plan price for the base model. There really isn't a way, that I know of, to determine x-plan price for the specific model you're interested in without looking at the dealer's invoice.

Thanks for the corrections. To the OP, if you're seriously interested in the FFH, I'd go ahead and request an x-plan pin from that site (if you can't otherwise get one), because it can take a while. Also, you're most likely to get a dealer to accept x-plan pricing (or, regardless, get the best price), if the dealer doesn't have to spend a lot of time on the transaction. From the dealer's perspective, he doesn't get much profit out of x-plan, so he's not going to want to do a bunch of test drives, etc. Decide on the car you want, then call some dealers and tell them you're ready to buy today, if they'll meet your price. I prefer doing it by phone because, that way, the dealer knows you're just going to go to the next name on the list if they say no. Finally, you sound like you're pretty sophisticated so you probably already know this, but you can generally get much better financing independently than through the dealer (unless they're offering 0% APR, which I doubt they are on the FFH). I shopped around and found the lowest APR (again, this was spring 2009) using Capital One's "blank check" auto financing program. Super easy, and I saved a lot of money going that route.

I did not realize FFHs were in such short supply. Granted, you're in California, the hybrid capital of the U.S., but that still surprises me. If you want to get a good deal on a FFH, your best bet is using Ford's "x-plan" pricing. X-plan is a special "haggle-free" price program available to friends and family of Ford employees, or employees of certain Ford-affiliated companies, but anybody can get an x-plan pin number, if they know how. The price is a few hundred more than the dealer's true invoice price (which is sometimes lower than the "invoice price" reflected on Edmunds). Also, the only extra fee permitted under x-plan is the standard $750 destination charge, plus a maximum $75 "doc fee" (at least, this was the rule back in 2009). No ridiculous $500 doc fees or other fees dealers try to add on in the back room. Thus, x-plan can result in pretty significant savings. While I have heard of a few people actually doing better than x-plan this summer when dealers were really hurting, x-plan is probably about as good as you can get. Plus, it's haggle-free. Ford actually requires that the x-plan price be printed on each dealer invoice, which the dealer has to show you if you ask to see it. There are two tricks to x-plan: First, the dealers are not required to sell all cars at x-plan price, expecially cars that are in short supply. Thus, even if you find the car you want in CA, the dealer might not accept x-plan for that car. The first dealer I found in KS back in spring 2009 wouldn't take it, because he only had two FFHs on the lot, but I found another dealer across town who would. Second, you need to get yourself an x-plan pin. There's many ways to do this: 1. Did you work for a large company? They might be a Ford affiliate. You can look this up on the internet. 2. Do you have an e-trade account or otherwise buy/sell stock? If you buy one share of stock, you can request an x-plan pin. You can sell the stock at any time. Google it. 3. Do you know anybody who works for Ford? Each employee gets something like 4 x-plan pins per year that they can give out. 4. Go to this website and ask for a pin! Be patient and polite. This is how I got mine.

I took a quick look at Edmunds and you're right, a fully loaded Camry would probably run you about $2500 less than a loaded FFH. That's a pretty significant price difference. It would be difficult to ever recoup that difference in gas savings from the FFH's slightly better MPG. The FFH was much more competitive in early 2009 when it was still eligible for a $1700 tax credit. For me, I'd still pay the price premium because the FFH is so fun to drive. The tech is superior, and I think the interior fit and finish is better, too. If you go to Edmunds, you'll note that one of the criticisms of the Camry is the cheap interior finish, but you can judge for yourself by sitting in both cars. With either car, I'd definitely recommend the leather. The FFH's instrument panel does have 4 different display modes, from very basic information to very detailed. There are no personalized settings that I know of, but I've got a 2010 model. As for the Ford / Toyota licensing issues, there's a lot of reading on the internet about that. Some say it's true, some say its false. I don't really care. All that really matters to me is how the car performs, and the FFH gets better MPG than the Camry. It's actually pretty telling that this is all the Toyota salesman had to say! The FFH eats the Camry's lunch in most respects, but that price difference is pretty significant...

I chose a FFH over the Prius and the Camry, mainly because I liked the interior and exterior better, and the tech was superior. The LCD instrument panels are awesome, and the "mood ring" lighting is a fun touch. by comparison, the Camry just seemed like a boring old Camry. There's very little to distinguish (besides MPG) that it is a hybrid. You're wife might actually like that, if she isn't into the tech. Both cars have great reliability, and both appear to do about the same MPG-wise (I think the FFH gets slightly better MPG, and the advanced instrument panels make it easier to hypermile). Since your wife isn't itnerested in the tech, I think the choice will really come down to: (a) Price: Don't know how these cars currently stack up in price, but remember that anyone can get access to Ford's x-plan pricing. (B) Interior/Exterior preference: Totally subjective. Don't be afraid to tell the salespeople you're also considering the FFH/Camry, and see what they say! Be sure to report back here what the Toyota salespeople have to say about the FFH.

What's the tread life of the tires on the FFH? I thought it was something like 30k.

When the weather gets really cold (below freezing), my brakes squeek, but only at low speeds, like right before I'm coming to a stop. This is a pretty common issue. I've never had the time to take them into the dealer for an adjustment, because it's kind of hard to recreate the conditions. That's probably because its coldest in the morning. My other cold weather nuisance is that, when I run the heater at low speeds, one of the fan bearings makes a soft chirping noise (sounds exactly like a cricket). Again, tough to re-create this issue, but I'll be taking her in for service at some point before the warranty expires.

Uggg... I didn't pay much attention when I bought the car, but I sort of assumed Ford would use super expensive tires. Seems like the manufacturers especially like to put "low rolling resistance" tires on hybrids to jack up the MPG as much as possible. Low rolling resistance = expensive and short tread life. When I go to replace mine, I'm switching to a cheaper tire with longer tread life. A tiny boost in MPG isn't worth the extra money. When I replaced my Highlander Hybrid's tires a few years ago, I went with Cooper at less than half the cost of whatever brand was on there, and I've had no regrets.

I've also owned my FFH (502A) for about 14 months. Zero repairs. And, Consumer Reports just rated the FFH the top family sedan for predicted reliability. Everything works great except for two minor issues in cold weather. First, occasionally when I run the heater, I can hear a chirping from the HVAC (sounds just like a cricket), which is probably a squeeky fan bearing. Also, the brakes sometimes squeek in cold weather. I've not been able to repoduce either of these problems for a mechanic yet. I just don't have the time to run the car over to the shop whenever one of these problems arise. I think I'll check the forecast for a really cold morning and then just plan to take the car to the shop first thing that morning. My only design issues are: 1. SYNC works Ok, but the command structure is clunky without reason. Just as one example, you have to say "phone" before you can say "call ____." Why? That's just stupid. What else am I going to use besides the phone to call somebody? The CD player? 2. No Homelink (I think this is added on 2011 model?) 3. No push-button start. 4. No LED headlamps. Other than these minor gripes, this is an awesome car. Best I've ever owned. This car was an especially sweet deal with x-plan pricing and a $1,700 tax credit! And, I'm averaging about 42mpg.

I won't pretend that I understood half of the jargon in that article, but the writers seem awfully impressed about all the "innovation" under the hood. At the end of the day, the Volt's a PHEV with a mid-30 mpg once the juice runs out. Meh. Hopefully this technology will be better and cheaper in another 5 years.

Wow. So the Volt is "just" a plug-in parallel hybrid? That's crazy. Shouldn't that jeopardize the $7,500 EV tax credit? Maybe it should, but of course it won't. It will be interesting to see how Toyota formulates the new Prius's EV range versus its MPG (assuming the two have an inverse relationship). The Prius will have a significantly shorter EV range than the Volt, but I'm betting the Prius will get significantly better MPG beyond that range. This raises an interesting question: Assuming price and other aspects (comfort, appearance, etc.) were the same, would you rather have a PHEV with a 15-mile EV range and 60 mpg beyond, or a PHEV with a 30-mile EV range, and 40 mpg beyond? Even though neither configurtion is an economical choice at $40k for a compact car, I would probably opt for the one with the 30-mile EV range, because I can fit most of my daily driving into that range, so MPG would usually be irrelevant. Of course, this discussion is completely hypothetical, because I think its safe to assume that Toyota is going to one-up the Volt. Might as well start referring to the new Prius as the Volt Killer.

Right - if you can plug in regularly each night to fully recharge the battery after, say, 50 miles of total driving, your "MPG" would be excellent. But keep in mind, electricity isn't free, so you're not going to save that much money using electricity instead of gasoline, and (unlike a FFH or Prius) you will NEVER recoup in gas savings the ridiculous premium paid for this compact car (even after ridiculous tax credit). I guess what really shocks me is that the Volt can't even match the FFH's MPG once the plug-in charge is gone. Why do you think that is? The Volt is smaller, but is it heavier because of the extra batteries? Or, is the series-hybrid less energy efficient than a parallel-hybrid system? Think about it. I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that the series-hybrid has to always perform 5 energy conversions, and there's a loss of energy with each: 1. Chemical energy (gasoline) to mechanical energy (the ICE) 2. Mechanical energy to electric energy 3. Electric energy to chemical energy (the battery) 4. Chemical energy to electric energy 5. Electric energy to mechanical energy (the motor) Maybe the series-hybrid technology more than compensates for this because the ICE can run more efficiently at a constant RPM.

Update: Popular Mechanics has done road testing on the Volt. They found the EV-only range was only 30-35 miles. They also attempted to measure "MPG": I think PM was right to run two sets of numbers, which seems to be the only way for the EPA to make any meaningul comparison between the Volt's "MPG" and the traditional MPG of non-plugins. You've got to do a "non-plug-in MPG" where you fully deplete the battery prior to testing, and "plug-in MPG" where you fully charge the battery prior to testing. As for the actual testing, PM did not use professional drivers, and they were pretty clearly not attempting any hyper-miling techniques, so these numbers are probably lower than what many of us could get. Still, at the end of the day, it doesn't appear that the Volt gets any better mileage (and perhaps worse) than the FFH once you go beyond the Volt's EV-only range. That is a weak showing, if you care about MPG beyond the EV Range. If, on the other hand, you drive less than 30 miles/day for the vast majority of the time, you probably wouldn't care about MPG at all. But if that's the case, why not get a Nissan Leaf or similar, much cheaper EV-only vehicle, and keep another car around for those occasionally longer trips? The Volt just isn't practical.

That's a funny issue with the taillights! I chose the Fusion because I liked the price and the exterior styling better (including the honeycomb taillights, which I think look really cool), but I never sat in a Milan, so I don't know how the interior quality compares. Is the cabin supposed to be more luxurious? Less noise?

I hope everything works out for you. I know how you feel. When you buy a new car, the idea is that mechanics won't be tearing into the guts of the car to perform major repairs less than a year out, warranty or not. On the other hand, if I was offered a brand new replacement engine (fat chance), I'd probably take it. I would suggest you look up your state's "lemon laws," but regardless of where you live, you're probably going to have to give Ford at least one chance, maybe more, to fix the problem. Good luck. I hope it ends up being an easy fix!