This is something new

[acdii]

It's another cool foggy morning, so this time I left the house with Max Defrost on and drove with it on for quite a while. ICE never shut off with it on, even with blower at low speed.

 

However, not complaining because the battery was fully charged and the instant was hovering around 44 MPG.

 

 

Now this leads me to thinking, what if the car could be switched to not use EV over 45 MPH, but not change anything else, just the threshold. If I am seeing a true 44+ MPG on ICE with a full charge, heat and AC on for defrost @ 60 MPH, why need EV at that speed?

 

IOW this morning the car was acting just like the old 2010 FFH did. Has me wondering.

 

BTW past week has been a consistent 45 MPG with temps around 45-55*, which is 2 MPG lower then when it is at 70*. So about a 1 MPG for every 10* drop so far. I'll take it. :)

[hybridbear]

So even when you'd stop at a red light the ICE idled on Max Defrost?

[lolder]

I have seen my 2010 HVAC go to defog/defrost automatically in AUTO. It knew the humidity was high. In the 2013, it was probably running the ICE because the defroster was calling for heat and it may want more in that Max mode. When you have another morning like that, just put it in Auto and see what happens.

[Skydogz]

Seems like whenever my car is in ICE mode I get 20mpg and on EV 60, so my avg is 41, almost exactly half way.

 

Is that normal?

[Eddie Sessum]

I thought the defroster kept the engine running while it was on.

 

 

Skydogz, on the highway when the car is charging its around 20mpg.. When it switches to EV mode you get less out of it than running the ICE to power you after it fully charges. At 70mph without going into ev mode and once i have a full charge enough to where the car stops charging. I can get 44-46mpg. When it does the on and off charging, around 41mpg since ive aired up my tires.

[Eddie Sessum]

I will have to put it on split defrost/feet one day for a highway trip. It may help me get a solid 45mpg on the highway and keep me out of ev mode.. If only we had a option to disable EV above a certain speed or on highway speeds.

[lolder]

Seems like whenever my car is in ICE mode I get 20mpg and on EV 60, so my avg is 41, almost exactly half way.

 

Is that normal?

Yes

[Goody]

My Fusion suddenly stopped running in "Hybrid" mode. It's either in ICE or EV. So my running MPG is either 20 or 60+. Until about a month ago, a couple of weeks after the dealer installed the "recalibration" software, the car would regularly operate in Hybrid Drive with the ICE and the EV combining, The action was visible in any of the displays with the blue and white lines. And the instantaneous MPG being in the 30s or 40s. And my MPG on short trips often came in the low to mid 40s. Longer hauls I'd top 50. Now I never see the blue and white bars on together. The car is either in ICE or in EV. And although I'll occasionally hit the upper 40s, the typical trip is much lower. This is a significant change in the operating behavior of the car. My dealer service writer said unless I see an error code nothing is wrong. The can't be. I've had the car since April, and it operated as described in all the promotional material until September. Now it's a different animal. Anybody have idea of what's going on.

[B25Nut]

Is this what you see on the Engage display? It is definitely bad behavior. I would strongly "suggest" to your dealer that they redo the PCM update. Some may say that your FFH is relearning your driving habits, but I experienced the majority of my positive results immediately after the update, with an additional 5% improvement after driving my FFH for a month afterward.

[Goody]

B25Nut, if you included an image, it didn't post. In any case I did initially experience better performance after the update, but everything changed suddenly about three weeks later. I was thinking I'd request the service department reinstall the update, but was torn between my suggesting a solution that might be wrong and letting them solve it in case it's not the PCM update.

[Goody]

B25Nut, What I'm experiencing is what Skybogz described in his 28 Sept post. It's either ICE or EV. Not both in combo.

[jsolan]

B25Nut, What I'm experiencing is what Skybogz described in his 28 Sept post. It's either ICE or EV. Not both in combo.

 

 

Mine very rarely does the combo of ICE+EV unless it's either first started and the ICE is cold or it needs extra power going up a hill.

What you're experiencing now is what I assumed was normal operation?

[acdii]

 

 

Mine very rarely does the combo of ICE+EV unless it's either first started and the ICE is cold or it needs extra power going up a hill.

What you're experiencing now is what I assumed was normal operation?

I believe what he is seeing is the lack of the blue EV threshold bar in the Empower screen. When cruising and the battery is at or above 50%, it will show up at half what your current KW ICE is if you are running at 2K. As you back off the throttle this blue bar will rise until it equals or passes the ICE and then go to full EV. Sounds like he is no longer seeing this.

[B25Nut]

Goody, when I said "this" I was referring to your problem. Sorry for my poor phrasing. I have found it much clearer to see when the ICE and EV operating together when the left display is set on Engage rather than Empower. Mine seems to work together about 15% of the time.

[Goody]

B25Nut, I've gone back and forth between Engage and Empower to monitor the running modes. What caught my eye was the sudden change in the car's behavior which was revealed by the displays and the fact that when the ICE is running, it seems to be working really hard and my MPG reading is just at or slightly above or below the 20 MPG line until I settle at a cruising speed and at which point it shifts over to EV. Then if I give the accelerator the slightest pressure, it'll shift completely over to ICE. There is no in-between. No combo/hybrid drive mode. (What poster acdii described in his post above is pretty close to what I'm experiencing) Previously it drove regularly in combo/hybrid mode for extended periods. Interestingly, on the few occasions when the I see a blue line along with the white ICE bar, if I view the opps on the 8.5 display, it'll read Hybrid Drive, but the flow of power is from the drive to the battery. Not from the battery to the drive. In other words, on the rare occasions the blue EV bar does appear in Empower or Engage at the same time as the white ICE bar, the battery is being charged. It's not supplementing the ICE as it would if it were actually functioning in Hybrid mode. And, of course, my MPG averages are down and individual trips, particularly short hops have been as low at 19 MPG.

[hybridbear]

I almost never see the car using both EV & ICE together. When the car uses EV & ICE together my MPG are much lower. Based on all the data I've observed with the ScanGauge my belief is that you do not want EV & ICE together unless you're flooring the gas pedal. Our ICE needs to have a pretty high load to be efficient. If the load is too low then it isn't efficient. I'd rather have a few seconds of ICE running at 20 MPG and then many minutes of EV running at infinite MPG to get an overall average of 50+ even with the colder winter temps. On rare occasions the car will try to combine EV & ICE. I don't like this because I still only see an instant MPG of 20-30 in those situations, but I'm not depleting the battery instead of charging it which means I won't be able to run in EV mode later on and get infinite MPG.

[Eddie Sessum]

I get my best mpg when it combines and usually with a pretty high soc it does. I dunno if how I condition the battery keeps it doing this but I let it get almost all the way charged and park it and hold the gas down till the battery charges all the way and stops charging. I do that about once a month and it seems to keep the computer using the battery the best.

[Goody]

Hybridbear,

 

When I run on ICE my instant MPG readout never goes above 20. I'll run on ICE up to 45 to 60 or more MPH and the instant MPG readout barely creeps above 20. It's not operating efficiently. I do get more pure EV time which compensates somewhat for the poor ICE MPG. The key indicator to me that something's amiss is that between April when I got the car, and early September (a few weeks after the "recalibration" software update) I regularly saw combined ICE/EV operations with instant MPG readouts in the upper 30s and 40s. Which yielded some high individual MPG trips---59, for example. And in the low 40s or even 50s on very short hops to the grocery store. But now, since mid September, those trips give me 19 MPG or low 20s. The instant MPG readouts are at either in the 20 range in ICE or 60+ in EV. Nothing in-between.

[lolder]

Your mpg will drop with colder temps. If the EV mode is cycling on and off, it's normal for the instantaneous MPG to read 20-30 when the ICE is on.

[hybridbear]

Hybridbear,

 

When I run on ICE my instant MPG readout never goes above 20. I'll run on ICE up to 45 to 60 or more MPH and the instant MPG readout barely creeps above 20. It's not operating efficiently. I do get more pure EV time which compensates somewhat for the poor ICE MPG. The key indicator to me that something's amiss is that between April when I got the car, and early September (a few weeks after the "recalibration" software update) I regularly saw combined ICE/EV operations with instant MPG readouts in the upper 30s and 40s. Which yielded some high individual MPG trips---59, for example. And in the low 40s or even 50s on very short hops to the grocery store. But now, since mid September, those trips give me 19 MPG or low 20s. The instant MPG readouts are at either in the 20 range in ICE or 60+ in EV. Nothing in-between.

Have you read the threads about tips for getting the best MPG and the thread about understanding how the FFH powertrain works with a ScanGauge? Based on the data in those threads you'll see that it's better for the ICE to be loaded up as a generator than to have the ICE and EV working together. Perhaps your particular driving style worked well before when the car was running less efficiently overall. However, the PCM update has brought improvement to many users and should for you too. Perhaps you might need to make some changes to your driving style to get the most out of it.

[acdii]

Hybridbear,

 

When I run on ICE my instant MPG readout never goes above 20. I'll run on ICE up to 45 to 60 or more MPH and the instant MPG readout barely creeps above 20. It's not operating efficiently. I do get more pure EV time which compensates somewhat for the poor ICE MPG. The key indicator to me that something's amiss is that between April when I got the car, and early September (a few weeks after the "recalibration" software update) I regularly saw combined ICE/EV operations with instant MPG readouts in the upper 30s and 40s. Which yielded some high individual MPG trips---59, for example. And in the low 40s or even 50s on very short hops to the grocery store. But now, since mid September, those trips give me 19 MPG or low 20s. The instant MPG readouts are at either in the 20 range in ICE or 60+ in EV. Nothing in-between.

Stay out of EV until your pack is above 80% and see if the instant goes up to 40. At this point the car will use both EV and ICE to cruise. It sounds like your battery is out of condition, and a full recharge might help. you can also let the ICE run in park with the heater on until the SOC reaches 80%. When it does, you might want to consider doing a hard reset by disconnecting both the HVB and LVB.

[Wingmn]

I see ICE/EV Mode often in mine - everytime I climb a steep hill, which out here happens every time I leave/and return from the house- we have steep hills all over, thankfully they are not EXTREMELY Long... Once I crest the hill she goes into full EV, unless other conditions exist... (warm up, low SOC, and so on). If I lived in OK I'd be killing that EPA rating :) That being said, I have learned how to optimize the hills... as much as possible that is. Cold temps, short trips, hills, yeilded a 37 MPG tank on yesterday's fill up. But I do live out here in the Pacific North West (PNW) - E10 everywhere... No Pure gas.... :( Oh well. I love this car in the stop n go morning/afternoon commutes :) Hybrids were made for this madness :)

Edited November 4, 2013 by Wingmn