Software Updates from Ford to improve MPGs

[Thomz Fusion]

THANKS for the advice on the creation of signatures! I should have discovered this earlier.

 

One stupid question, does it automatically update?

 

Tom

[HenryVIII]

 

 

Its easy to say when you only waited 3 months for an announcement while others have waited 9 months for any word but a middle finger. Its the first purchasers that "whined" and "complained" that forced these changes which I see solving all the problems with short commutes, normal highway speeds, slow warm up, cold weather, etc... These whiners are the ones that called Ford, went to the dealerships , time and time again to get a resolution.

 

It's a good thing that they complained to Ford. However, it's unrealistic for owners to believe that there was going to be a fix right away. These things take time, unless it's a mass error on Ford's part. Given the number of Gen 2 Hybrid owners that don't have issues lends to Ford's favor.

 

Ford has to gather data, find specific issues that are wrong and provide the correct fix. It takes time, plain and simple. And now there's a fix for it. Kudos to Ford for providing a fix.

[murphy]

THANKS for the advice on the creation of signatures! I should have discovered this earlier.

 

One stupid question, does it automatically update?

 

Tom

Yes.

[acdii]

Whats interesting, havent seen any one else have their plugs foul.

[GrayStrider]

If nothing else this seems like a good update for people who experience cold weather.

I'm in not so cold So Cal, and am only getting just above 37 MPG from my build 1 FFH. Anything they can do to improve the MPG sounds good to me. We'll be one of the guinea pigs for the forum!

[mikejoconnor]

I'm a bit skeptical about the bump up in max speed for the non-energi ffh. The battery pack is about 18% of the size of the energi. I always assumed they limited the speed because the amp draw on the smaller battery pack was too great, and would reduce the lifespan of the battery. I have to wonder what long term effect this will have on that little 1.4kwh battery pack.

 

I'm sure I'll have them apply the update, as I tend to be an early adopter. However I'll always have that nagging thought of why didn't they do this from the beginning.

[corncobs]

As I have learned (was teached) yesterday it probably not as much the actuall driving up to 85MPH but rather avoiding the additional friction when coasting hopfully allowing for less decel while the ICE is no longer engage to the power train.

 

There already some volunteers that would play guinea pig for the software update and report back.

Edited July 19, 2013 by corncobs

[hybridbear]

Maybe Ford should use the GPS to figure out where the car is located and adjust the software based of the location. ;-)

Wasn't there also a point made about detecting different driving conditions interstate / highway / city and adjusting the parameters on the fly?

Maybe that's confirms what acdii and HB have expierenced where the car behaved slightly different during city driving after a long stretch of highway. Maybe the FFH has something like that and they have made improvements to this feature.

BMW does this in their ActiveHybrid3. I think it's only a matter of time until we see this technology on the mainstream Toyota and Ford hybrids. It seems like it would make a difference in mileage on highway drives but is likely expensive to implement. It would be especially useful in mountainous driving if it could run the HVB down to almost 0% SOC when cresting a mountain so as to maximize the energy gained from gravity on the way down and minimze the energy lost to engine braking or as heat through the brake pads.

 

I think what he was saying is that even though we have DFSO ----- "IF" the motor is still turning....even without fuel going to it.....it creates a friction loss. That energy could be used....

You're not going to see the car go into EV mode going up a hill at 85mph. There are a couple situations where fuel can be saved at higher speeds. One is when the SOC is very high. Might as well use that energy and leave enough room in the battery to capture any future regen. Second is when coasting or very light load conditions. Currently, as described above, over 62mph and coasting the engine remains spinning though no fuel is delivered. However the energy to spin the engine has to come from somewhere - it comes from the kinetic energy of the vehicle back-driving the engine. Just like engine braking in a conventional car, cutting off the fuel and allowing the engine to slow the car instead of the brakes results in the car slowing down faster than coasting in neutral - because the friction and pumping loses of the engine take away the kinetic energy. If you can fully shut down and disengage the ICE at high speeds, you can recover more of the kinetic energy and thus burn less fuel overall.

 

So coasting down a hill at 85mph in full EV mode makes a LOT of sense. That's something you can't do now, but can with the new software.

The mass of ICE turning when it isnt needed creates a loss. If the ICE is disconnected from the power train when not needed, such as when in EV mode, that mass of spinning parts no longer is dragging down the power train. In other words, to keep that mass moving, power from the road, car moving forward, is applied to keep it spinning, and there is your loss. In EV, with the ICE disconnected, then any and all energy recovered from going downhill can either be neutral, where you can gain speed freely, or recovered by regen and put back in the pack while maintaining speed by downhill braking. It takes quite a bit of energy to spin the flywheel, crankshaft, pistons and valve train, even if all compression is removed, which in this case, isnt, just the fuel.

 

I still have my doubts that anything would fix that car. Doesn't matter though, I now have the car I truly want. Hey I got 50 MPG this morning going to work, surprised the crap out of me too!

 

 

 

HAH Waldo and I posted the same thing in a different way at the same time.

My doubt still remains though, and here's why...at those high speeds the time that the ICE could remain off are minimal in most situations. While the ICE saps some of the kinetic energy of the vehicle to maintain its rotation under DFSO the RPMs drop to around 700 so the energy required is lower. Also, when the ICE turns off with the new software there will be energy required to start it spinning again. If you haven't noticed already take some time to watch the Engage screen when the ICE engages. You'll see that the EV bar temporarily spikes. This is because the electric motor has to spin the ICE to engage it since there is no starter motor. My concern is that above 62 MPH the amount of time that the ICE will be shut off is so short that the kinetic energy needed to keep the ICE spinning during DFSO is less than or equal to the energy required from the battery to start it spinning again. If you watch on ET Mode the ICE RPMs when the electric motor gets it spinning it very quickly gets it spinning up over 1000 RPMs to start it. This no doubt takes a lot of energy. If the ICE is only shutting off for a few seconds with the new software then the energy required to start it spinnig again is likely more than the energy that would have been required to keep it spinning during DFSO. For this reason I question the value in raising the EV threshold to 85 MPH.

 

Its easy to say when you only waited 3 months for an announcement while others have waited 9 months for any word but a middle finger. Its the first purchasers that "whined" and "complained" that forced these changes which I see solving all the problems with short commutes, normal highway speeds, slow warm up, cold weather, etc... These whiners are the ones that called Ford, went to the dealerships , time and time again to get a resolution.

You had a lemon and we're all sorry for that. It's very disappointing that Ford wouldn't address your issues along with acdii's and others. I really do hope you get just compensation for the value lost on your car. I don't agree with the lawsuit that complains to Ford about the EPA ratings because that isn't their fault. I'd think you'd be better off trying to prove that your car was a lemon in a lawsuit. I don't know what I would have done in your situation, but like you I would not have been happy. I hope you're enjoying your Lexus.

[Waldo]

If the ICE is only shutting off for a few seconds with the new software then the energy required to start it spinnig again is likely more than the energy that would have been required to keep it spinning during DFSO. For this reason I question the value in raising the EV threshold to 85 MPH.

 

 

But basic physics would say this is impossible. You are saying that the amount of energy needed to overcome the rotational inertia of the engine is greater than the amount of energy lost to friction when it's spinning. But consider this. When the engine is turned off and decoupled from the drivetrain, what stops it from spinning? It doesn't have a brake or any load other than it's internal friction. But it still comes to a stop pretty quick, because that friction overcomes the rotational inertia very quickly.

 

So as long as you are in EV mode long enough for the ICE to stop spinning, you will always save more energy than it takes to start the engine back up (well execpt for the energy conversion losses). If you are not in EV mode long enough for the ICE to stop spinning, then the energy need to start it back up is much less, because it's still spinning. So I contend that the amount of energy needed to start the engine can never exceed the amount of friction lost by keeping it running for any amount of time.

[47Minutes]

You guys are making my head hurt. :confused:

[neod192]

You guys are making my head hurt. :confused:

You don't have to worry about it ... Your Energi can already go in EV up to 85 MPH. I wonder if the Energi will get some of the other updates, like the optimized A/C compressor use and the smarter grill covers (you have those, right?).

[keithsm2]

i have a question about the update......it mentions closing the shudders when the AC is on? not sure how this helps....ect....

[hermans]

You don't have to worry about it ... Your Energi can already go in EV up to 85 MPH. I wonder if the Energi will get some of the other updates, like the optimized A/C compressor use and the smarter grill covers (you have those, right?).

I think I read where the Energi models are excluded.

[acdii]

i have a question about the update......it mentions closing the shudders when the AC is on? not sure how this helps....ect....

That is one I have been wondering about as well since the condenser needs the air flow over the coils in order to transfer the heat away from the coolant so it can liquefy. Sounds like that would reduce cooling. Then again it's main purpose in this update is to reduce power consumption of the compressor so if it slows down, then less air flow is required to condense the fluid.

[keithsm2]

That is one I have been wondering about as well since the condenser needs the air flow over the coils in order to transfer the heat away from the coolant so it can liquefy. Sounds like that would reduce cooling. Then again it's main purpose in this update is to reduce power consumption of the compressor so if it slows down, then less air flow is required to condense the fluid.

so the awesome AC may not be as awesome after update??

[Aquineas]

so the awesome AC may not be as awesome after update??

Wondering the same thing, as I, like you, live in Texas.

[Waldo]

Grill shutters aren't just open and closed, there are various positions in between. Ford's probably just found a more optimal balance between vehicle speed, airflow, cooling demand and ambient temperatures.

[keithsm2]

i know we have lots of things to look at with this car...but here are Two more things i wish i could monitor..

 

Id like to know the shutter position and monitor it.....

 

and the regen system... Some people that are having poor mileage (clummus...ect ) may have a poor regen system.....maybe its not getting engaged when coasting or braking.....or maybe just partial engagement......How do we know???

[neod192]

I think I read where the Energi models are excluded.

They are, but they might get a slightly modified version in the future.

[acdii]

i know we have lots of things to look at with this car...but here are Two more things i wish i could monitor..

 

Id like to know the shutter position and monitor it.....

 

and the regen system... Some people that are having poor mileage (clummus...ect ) may have a poor regen system.....maybe its not getting engaged when coasting or braking.....or maybe just partial engagement......How do we know???

Yep, this is one I had mentioned before. For all we know, the battery pack could have a higher than normal resistance which would impact charging rates, so the regen could be just fine, but the batteries might not be taking in all they can get. Higher resistance batteries tend to take longer to charge.

Edited July 19, 2013 by acdii
I cantspeel

[47Minutes]

You don't have to worry about it ... Your Energi can already go in EV up to 85 MPH. I wonder if the Energi will get some of the other updates, like the optimized A/C compressor use and the smarter grill covers (you have those, right?).

 

It does have those. I'm not going to hold my breath for any sort of update. I still can't get my cracking/clicking/ping pong ball bouncing noise fixed because my Energi build date is after the cutoff on the applicable TSB. I emailed my service advisor and asked for an update. He said he'd look in to it...a week ago...nary a word since. I'm considering having them start to throw parts at it. Maybe after enough failed repair attempts I can stop making lemonade.

[46stang]

It would seem Ford took some time to release this update, so i would imagine overall it has to help mileage some. I will have it done when it is available, but it would be nice if they offer the feature to switch to hybrid drive when driving fast on the freeway for long distance, like the energy i have. Some of the freeways out in the west have a speed limit of 80mph and I would prefer it not switch in and out of EV mode at those speeds. Either way I can't wait to get it installed and give it a try.

[hermans]

You would need a much larger battery like the Energi has.

[GrySql]

Yep, this is one I had mentioned before. For all we know, the battery pack could have a higher than normal resistance which would impact charging rates, so the regen could be just fine, but the batteries might not be taking in all they can get. Higher resistance batteries tend to take longer to charge.

+1

I wonder if the HVB battery packs are dated.

[jeff_h]

The below item just showed up on the list of service actions when looking up my VIN in Etis... searched the site for TSBs and nothing showed up yet, though maybe I am not using the right keyword(s).

 

Outstanding Field Service Actions

13B07 - POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) CALIBRATION