Engine warmup/staying warm

[acdii]

I have a perfect facepalm picture for this, but it most likely would get me banned for a while. :)

 

 

You know that saying when a cancer patient is feeling good, they are having a good day? That was my car this morning. My feet were warm, the car was running good, and actually got the kind of mileage I was expecting. Strange, it has its good days occasionally.

[terryb]

Convert C to F:

Multiply C by 2

Deduct 10%

Add 32

Wallah

 

e.g. 100C x 2 = 200 less 10% = 180 + 32 = 212F

[storksb]

Managed to get a 10 mile jpurney at 46mpg this morning, no doubt as a result of higher temperatures, mid 40's and the fact the car was warmed up from a drive to the dealer an hour before. Going to love the spring and summer just need to get the last few of winter out the way and decent mpg will be upon us.

[Fynack]

Managed to get a 10 mile jpurney at 46mpg this morning, no doubt as a result of higher temperatures, mid 40's and the fact the car was warmed up from a drive to the dealer an hour before. Going to love the spring and summer just need to get the last few of winter out the way and decent mpg will be upon us.

 

I see your in nova like me. When did you buy your car and do you know when it was built?

[storksb]

I see your in nova like me. When did you buy your car and do you know when it was built?

Got my car late January and think it was built late November, but will confirm later.

[storksb]

I see your in nova like me. When did you buy your car and do you know when it was built?

Looked it up built 10/19/12, so I guess an early one.

[Kaleido]

The shutters are controlled to open and close electrically I assume by a motor driven gear or rod. If some owners want to control them manually it seems all you would need to do is splice in an on/off switch inline with either the power or ground wire of this control wire of the shutters thereby overriding their power. Like kill the power to them before start up in the morning and leave them closed until YOU want them open, then flip the switch and they receive the power to open. But, maybe I'm totally wrong with this theory, just thinking out loud here.

[acdii]

Look closer, the shutters only close off 50% of the radiator. Since they are computer controlled though, the less messing with the system the better. I picked up a sheet of Lexan tonight, going to make a grill cover that wont affect the Cruise control radar unit and see how much it helps.

[storksb]

Look closer, the shutters only close off 50% of the radiator. Since they are computer controlled though, the less messing with the system the better. I picked up a sheet of Lexan tonight, going to make a grill cover that wont affect the Cruise control radar unit and see how much it helps.

acdii, Let us know this works out, with spring almost upon us in northern Virginia it will be something to maybe copy for next winter. Though if you get good gains I might be tempted to do it sooner.

[hybridbear]

Looked it up built 10/19/12, so I guess an early one.

 

Sounds like yours might have been built before the ones with mileage issues

 

Look closer, the shutters only close off 50% of the radiator. Since they are computer controlled though, the less messing with the system the better. I picked up a sheet of Lexan tonight, going to make a grill cover that wont affect the Cruise control radar unit and see how much it helps.

 

Where are you going to put the Lexan? How are you going to attach it?

 

I've been thinking about putting some insulation in there. My thought was to stuff some insulation in the openings in the grille. That way I could control how much air is blocked. I could then block 100% in the coldest part of winter, 75%, then 50% then 25% as the weather warms up. The problem is that it's been so darn cold that I haven't had time to go shopping and experiment.

[acdii]

Cable ties. Going to make a template today and cut the plastic to fit the grill opening. Drill some holes so I can fish cable ties through it and secure it to the grill with those, provided I can fish them around and through. With a heat gun I can form then in a loop, so that will make it easier to feed through. Since I use a scan gauge I can keep an eye on the temps and if I see it getting too hot I can remove the lower cover and see if it helps. I will just make sure I have cutters with me at all times.

[hybridbear]

Cable ties. Going to make a template today and cut the plastic to fit the grill opening. Drill some holes so I can fish cable ties through it and secure it to the grill with those, provided I can fish them around and through. With a heat gun I can form then in a loop, so that will make it easier to feed through. Since I use a scan gauge I can keep an eye on the temps and if I see it getting too hot I can remove the lower cover and see if it helps. I will just make sure I have cutters with me at all times.

 

Can you please post some pictures of how you do it? Have you ever done anything similar on your 2010 FFH to improve mileage?

[acdii]

Can you please post some pictures of how you do it? Have you ever done anything similar on your 2010 FFH to improve mileage?

I have done nothing on the 2010 but change oil. Quite pleased with the gas mileage, but adding grill covers could help it maintain its 38 MPG summer average over winter.

 

As for pictures, well, the main grill cover is done. I need to test it out and then take it off and do a little trimming to keep it from rubbing the chrome.

 

[B25Nut]

I'm impressed! You're quite a craftsman. Do you ever sleep?

[expresspotato]

So how's the milage now :)? While idling in my garage with the door open it used about 0.4L in just 8 minutes. Guzzle guzzle. The engine is no doubt running rich. The engine block and exhaust pipes were pretty much stone cold.

Edited March 2, 2013 by expresspotato

[ace8726872]

I have done nothing on the 2010 but change oil. Quite pleased with the gas mileage, but adding grill covers could help it maintain its 38 MPG summer average over winter.

 

As for pictures, well, the main grill cover is done. I need to test it out and then take it off and do a little trimming to keep it from rubbing the chrome.

 

[img=https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/625652_513228018719337_129846483_n.jpg]

[img=https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/381857_513228035386002_582141944_n.jpg]

 

Holy crap! Nicely done acdii!

 

Since I am in SoCal, I would worry that my car would overheat with something like that one my car. Sorry to be an armchair quarterback. Maybe the next enhancement would be something that can attach and detach quickly?

 

How is you MPG? I am dying to know.

[TX NRG]

Great job acdii! Black or gray cable ties might be a little less visible.

[acdii]

And the verdict is. The car warms up much quicker now. HOWEVER, after driving about 100 miles today, it made ZERO improvement in MPG. The engine gets to 182* and that is it, no higher. I can pretty much block off the entire front end and it gets no higher than 182*. The large grill is 100% blocked off, only the lower grill is opened and that is partially blocked by the license plate. Tomorrow I will make the lower grill cover and see what happens.

 

 

Pretty much resigned to have a 35 MPG car. In the city I did get to 43MPG, but that was mostly 40-45 MPG traffic. On the highway doing 55 35 is about all I saw, and I was trying my best to keep it in EV.

[hybridbear]

And the verdict is. The car warms up much quicker now. HOWEVER, after driving about 100 miles today, it made ZERO improvement in MPG. The engine gets to 182* and that is it, no higher. I can pretty much block off the entire front end and it gets no higher than 182*. The large grill is 100% blocked off, only the lower grill is opened and that is partially blocked by the license plate. Tomorrow I will make the lower grill cover and see what happens.

 

 

Pretty much resigned to have a 35 MPG car. In the city I did get to 43MPG, but that was mostly 40-45 MPG traffic. On the highway doing 55 35 is about all I saw, and I was trying my best to keep it in EV.

 

Is it supposed to get much higher than 182 degrees? I used ET mode on a 13 or so mile drive this afternoon, about 10 of which is highway and the warmest it showed for the coolant was 83 C or 181 F. That's the same as what you saw. However I did get much better mileage. The pics below are my trip to visit my folks and then back home.

 

Going to their house, 12.7 miles, 45.3 MPG, outside temp about 30 degrees. Of those 12.7 miles almost 10 miles exactly is freeway at 55 MPH. When I arrived at their house, after driving about 2 miles on city streets the coolant temp had dropped from a peak of 83 C (181 F) down to 66 C (151 F). This trip started with a cold engine.

 

 

Leaving their house and going to the grocery store near home (again with a cold engine), 13.1 miles, 46.9 MPG, again with about 10 miles exactly of 55 MPH freeway through the city. On this trip the peak coolant temp was 83 C (181 F) although most of the trip on the highway the coolant showed 77-81 C (170-178 F). The coolant temp would drop quickly when the car went into EV mode on the rolling hills of the highway. After driving a short distance on city streets to the grocery store (less than 1/2 mile) the coolant temp had dropped from 77 C (170 F) down to 67 C (153 F). I'm hoping to figure out something to block the grille to reduce airflow and help the engine stay warmer longer. The grille shutters should have been closed for the entire length of both trips, but even still the car cools down very quickly when driving on city streets in EV mode.

 

 

For Fyanck and others who are asking about how to get good mileage, I didn't do any hypermiling techniques like pulse & glide or anything. I just drive gently enough that the acceleration bar is almost all the way to the top and try to brake smoothly too. Once I get on the freeway I set the Eco Cruise at 55 MPH since that is the speed limit and I let the computer do its thing. And I end up with consistently above 45 MPG if I drive more than 10 miles, under 10 miles and we see 36-42 MPG in similar temps somewhere between 20 & 30 F.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited March 3, 2013 by hybridbear

[hermans]

Is it supposed to get much higher than 182 degrees? I used ET mode on a 13 or so mile drive this afternoon, about 10 of which is highway and the warmest it showed for the coolant was 83 C or 181 F. That's the same as what you saw. However I did get much better mileage. The pics below are my trip to visit my folks and then back home.

 

Going to their house, 12.7 miles, 45.3 MPG, outside temp about 30 degrees. Of those 12.7 miles almost 10 miles exactly is freeway at 55 MPH. When I arrived at their house, after driving about 2 miles on city streets the coolant temp had dropped from a peak of 83 C (181 F) down to 66 C (151 F). This trip started with a cold engine.

 

photo.jpg

 

Leaving their house and going to the grocery store near home (again with a cold engine), 13.1 miles, 46.9 MPG, again with about 10 miles exactly of 55 MPH freeway through the city. On this trip the peak coolant temp was 83 C (181 F) although most of the trip on the highway the coolant showed 77-81 C (170-178 F). The coolant temp would drop quickly when the car went into EV mode on the rolling hills of the highway. After driving a short distance on city streets to the grocery store (less than 1/2 mile) the coolant temp had dropped from 77 C (170 F) down to 67 C (153 F). I'm hoping to figure out something to block the grille to reduce airflow and help the engine stay warmer longer. The grille shutters should have been closed for the entire length of both trips, but even still the car cools down very quickly when driving on city streets in EV mode.

The dealer I go to has two hybrid certified mechanics. I asked one of them about the grill shutters and their purpose. He said the grill shutters are for aerodynamic purposes as the car travels at highway speeds. I told him some people think the shutters are to warm up the engine in colder temps. He replied that the shutters had nothing to do with raising engine temps at all.

 

Here's what Ford says:

Aerodynamic Design

• Active grille shutters close to reduce drag
• Fully shielded underbody helps air pass smoothly underneath
• Both features combine to reduce aerodynamic drag and increase efficiency

Edited March 3, 2013 by hermans

[acdii]

Well, I guess its supposed to be at 182* then. I noticed the tailpipe has soot on it today. The one thing I did notice is the temp stays up there now, warms quicker, and the HVAC is running less. I got the lower grill cover done a little while ago. Since I have the front plate bracket, fitting the lower one was a pain, but after taking the license plate off I was able to see the two tabs and made slots for them, slipped the cover up behind it while pulling it forward and it locked in place. 2 cable ties and its secured.

 

Thanks for the comments, its a knack I have, been doing wood working, metal working, and model making since I was a wee tyke.

[GrySql]

The dealer I go to has two hybrid certified mechanics. I asked one of them about the grill shutters and their purpose. He said the grill shutters are for aerodynamic purposes as the car travels at highway speeds. I told him some people think the shutters are to warm up the engine in colder temps. He replied that the shutters had nothing to do with raising engine temps at all.

 

Here's what Ford says:

Aerodynamic Design

• Active grille shutters close to reduce drag
• Fully shielded underbody helps air pass smoothly underneath
• Both features combine to reduce aerodynamic drag and increase efficiency

I've read the same thing, then we watched the video when the chief project engineer said that the shutters were 'dumb'.

Any certified mechanic is trained from the 'book' and I'm happy you have two nearby, but field tests by some of us show different and somewhat contradictory shutter operations.

By my personal observation I watched the shutters close at cold startup in the garage (where highway speeds are rarely attained), ptjones videotaped them opening at specific temperatures and mine were open after driving 70-80mph when I pulled over to look. It's anecdotal sure, but their real operation is a bit confusing.

 

As you once put it, I don't have a dog in this fight, I love my car.

I am just interested in the various systems the car uses so I have some basis of knowledge if things aren't working correctly.

 

Being retired this is the car we drive 90% of the time, my wife tags along 90% of the time too (I can use the HOV (carpool) lanes!) and she always has the HVAC in one setting or another.

My mileage is about where I expect with the conditions of its operational use.

By myself I can get very close to the stated EPA mileage if I try, but that is not possible with a co-pilot who holds the tie-breaking vote.

:worship:

 

BTW, acdii stated that possibly the best build date was 12/12/12, I took delivery on that date after waiting only 6 weeks from the order date - close enough.

[fusionTX]

And the verdict is. The car warms up much quicker now. HOWEVER, after driving about 100 miles today, it made ZERO improvement in MPG. The engine gets to 182* and that is it, no higher. I can pretty much block off the entire front end and it gets no higher than 182*. The large grill is 100% blocked off, only the lower grill is opened and that is partially blocked by the license plate. Tomorrow I will make the lower grill cover and see what happens.

 

 

Pretty much resigned to have a 35 MPG car. In the city I did get to 43MPG, but that was mostly 40-45 MPG traffic. On the highway doing 55 35 is about all I saw, and I was trying my best to keep it in EV.

I would think that the fact that you couldn't get good mileage in Florida is evidence that it is not a temperature problem.

[hybridbear]

I've read the same thing, then we watched the video when the chief project engineer said that the shutters were 'dumb'.

Any certified mechanic is trained from the 'book' and I'm happy you have two nearby, but field tests by some of us show different and somewhat contradictory shutter operations.

By my personal observation I watched the shutters close at cold startup in the garage (where highway speeds are rarely attained), ptjones videotaped them opening at specific temperatures and mine were open after driving 70-80mph when I pulled over to look. It's anecdotal sure, but their real operation is a bit confusing.

 

As you once put it, I don't have a dog in this fight, I love my car.

I am just interested in the various systems the car uses so I have some basis of knowledge if things aren't working correctly.

 

Being retired this is the car we drive 90% of the time, my wife tags along 90% of the time too (I can use the HOV (carpool) lanes!) and she always has the HVAC in one setting or another.

My mileage is about where I expect with the conditions of its operational use.

By myself I can get very close to the stated EPA mileage if I try, but that is not possible with a co-pilot who holds the tie-breaking vote.

:worship:

 

BTW, acdii stated that possibly the best build date was 12/12/12, I took delivery on that date after waiting only 6 weeks from the order date - close enough.

 

 

The dealer I go to has two hybrid certified mechanics. I asked one of them about the grill shutters and their purpose. He said the grill shutters are for aerodynamic purposes as the car travels at highway speeds. I told him some people think the shutters are to warm up the engine in colder temps. He replied that the shutters had nothing to do with raising engine temps at all.

 

Here's what Ford says:

Aerodynamic Design

• Active grille shutters close to reduce drag
• Fully shielded underbody helps air pass smoothly underneath
• Both features combine to reduce aerodynamic drag and increase efficiency

 

It seems that Ford doesn't know how the grille shutters work...my selling dealer told me that they close right away when starting the car and then open based on temperature. The salesman said that their function is to reduce drag, so they are closed at all speeds, unless the engine gets warm enough that increased airflow to the radiator is needed, then they will open. He said that when he went to a class from Ford to learn about the new hybrids that they were told the above.

 

But then other "experts" at Ford have said that they only close at highway speeds.

 

This kind of makes me wonder if Ford changed the operation of the grille shutters from the early build cars to the later ones.

[GrySql]

This kind of makes me wonder if Ford changed the operation of the grille shutters from the early build cars to the later ones.

Shutters are a waste of effort if streamlining is the only objective, a simple internal re-design would be less error prone.

 

Then think about the coolant leak/fire scenario on the 1.6L EB engines.

Their software was changed to keep the coolant colder and derate the engine power if certain temperatures were noted.

In other words, they are erring on the side of keeping the engines cooler than need be because of a safety and insurance issue.

All that info is in the Fusion Forum Engine category, under mileage complaints.

 

This tells me that Ford can put newer software in place to allow our Atkinson engines to run at different temps in different climates, if they wanted to.

Having tested my engine in moderate weather where the engine temps were good I am very interested to see how it performs in extreme hot weather with Max AC working 100% of the time.