Won't run in EV mode, ICE kicks in immediately.

[beastrow]

I still going into ICE pretty quickly if I'm not gentle with the accelerator, but I can definitely use the pedal and stay in EV. My MO driving today, as I was testing things out, was to accelerate to 30-40 MPH in ICE, ease up on the pedal and quickly drop to EV, then use the pedal again, lightly, to maintain the speed in EV.

 

Are you able to accelerate in EV, or just coast?

Edited June 14, 2019 by beastrow

[beastrow]

Quick follow-up...

 

Played with the display settings and they were, in fact, the culprit on getting the range of power your EV functions within before wanting to go to ICE. It almost matches the pic jake1110 posted earlier. I'm going to guess that, if I HAD my display configured that way, originally, I wouldn't have seen a range of availability prior to ICE engaging the way I do now.

 

In summation, it's still not perfect, but I think, (when actually functioning after the date adjustment) it's maybe where we should expect it to be based on age? I do think I'd still like to eventually do a battery re-balance, just to see if it helps, (if the functionality eventually makes it into Forscan for the Fusion).

[Cnaroach]

Shoot, that's a little disappointing. Mine does pretty much the same thing without the fix. The only difference is that I can't maintain speed in EV unless I'm going downhill. Maybe I'm missing something because when I bought it a few months ago it was already having problems. I had hoped the fix would allow me to drive in bumper to bumper, stop and go traffic in EV.

 

I still going into ICE pretty quickly if I'm not gentle with the accelerator, but I can definitely use the pedal and stay in EV. My MO driving today, as I was testing things out, was to accelerate to 30-40 MPH in ICE, ease up on the pedal and quickly drop to EV, then use the pedal again, lightly, to maintain the speed in EV.

 

[beastrow]

I can definitely do that if I use a lighter touch on the pedal. For instance, my small test excursion last night after making the change was a run to Jack in the Box, (I'm not proud, please don't judge :) ). I was in EV from the time I pulled in to the drive-through to the time I left, with several cars in front of me. Prior to the year change, my FFH would have kicked into ICE every time I took my foot off the brake to move forward. In addition, none of my driving has been hill driving today. Flat surfaces only. The difference has been very noticeable.

 

Again, having bought my 2010 used a couple of months back, I feel like this isn't the performance it probably had when it was brand new. But it's a vast improvement over where it was and, I suspect, maybe the best one could do shy of replacing the HVB. That being said, as someone who wouldn't even qualify, I still think it has class-action written all over it based on Ford's poor and erratic handling of the situation.

 

Shoot, that's a little disappointing. Mine does pretty much the same thing without the fix. The only difference is that I can't maintain speed in EV unless I'm going downhill. Maybe I'm missing something because when I bought it a few months ago it was already having problems. I had hoped the fix would allow me to drive in bumper to bumper, stop and go traffic in EV.

Edited June 14, 2019 by beastrow

[lolder]

The cars when new would accelerate only very slowly in EV by design. That's an area where they want the ICE to run. All the energy comes from gas so don't push EV use. The car knows best. Here's a brief summary.

 

In HEVs, ( not PHEVs ) all the energy comes from fuel. The "ICE-generator-charge-discharge-motor-wheels" energy path of the EV cycle has more loss than the "ICE-wheels" path so EV should be AVOIDED above 40-50 mph. Higher speeds cost 6 mpg per 10 mph. Lower temperatures cost 2 mpg per 10º F. Headwinds ( and some crosswinds ) cost up to 3mpg per 10 mph. Noisy roads can cost 2 mpg. Heavy rain can cost up to 10 mpg. AC can cost over 10 mpg for a few minutes in a heat soaked car tapering off to 1-2 mpg. These effects are mostly cumulative and the inverse effects are also true.

1: Low HVB

2: HVB reconditioning ( 2010-12 )

3: Evaporative emissions check at start up

4: Speed over 46-62-86 mph depending on model and software.

5: Higher power demand such as acceleration

6: Cabin heater demand

7: Warmup of catalytic converter when cold and speed above 12 mph. ( 2010-12 )

8: Use of "L" gear

9: The ICE is motorized with no fuel flow when coasting down steep hills and speed exceeds 46 mph or at any speed while brake depressed and HVB becomes full. For instance if you are coasting at 60 mph and put on the brake, when regen is not sufficient the brake pedal will call for higher motorizing rpm for compression or "jack" braking.?

Edited June 14, 2019 by lolder

[allen84]

Here is a detailed post I made on how to fix the issue:

 

https://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic/19361-my-instructions-on-restoring-the-hybrid-ev-function-on-the-ford-fusion-hybrid-approaching-the-89-years-mark/?tab=comments#comment-109239

[fun4u]

Thanks, Allen, for this detailed instruction on how to "fix" the FFH battery problem.

 

I took my car in to my Ford dealer this morning for the annual state inspection AND the resetting of the HVB setting. I gave him the name of the Des Moines
Ford dealer that Rodney had used, but I also sent a copy of your posting to him now in order to assist his Hybrid Tech in doing he reset. The Service Manager told me this morning that he has had complaints about this problem from several other FFH owners, and that he will be excited about advising them of this "fix" if it works for me.

 

I realize that your posting was intended to tell me how to do this reset myself, but I'm a coward about messing with the operating computer, so I'll pay the dealer to do it.

 

More news later!

[fun4u]

Jake 1110,

 

My Ford dealer called Charles Gabus Ford in Des Moines, IA, and talked to Phillip in the service department, but Phillip was unable to help him with the fix. He says he needs the customer name and/or the vehicle number in order to look it up! Can you supply either to me?

Thanks for the help.

 

[allen84]

Well, just got back from doing about an hour's worth of street driving and the date change using Forscan has definitely made a difference. I have attached a pic of my indicators in action and, while this shows me at around 35 MPH in EV, I was able to get to around 45 MPH a few times before ICE kicked in. It has also made HUGE difference in the acceleration issue, which is now pretty much gone.

 

My indicators still don't display the way others in the forum have posted, (with the indicator lines showing the range of EV) but I have a feeling that's a matter of how you configure it manually and I haven't played around with that yet.

 

hit the setup button on your steering wheel,

 

Display settings > Display mode > choose the Empower

 

You are currently on Enlighten mode.

 

The empower mode is what gives you the expanding green box and and red line, which greatly assists your chances in staying in EV mode. Green box appears when you coast below 46 miles per hr, and how lightly you should maintain your foot on the pedal to stay in EV mode, until the battery charge runs down. Anticipating the traffic light change from yellow to red at a distance, you can gradually begin to brake to recharge the battery. Also a slight decline in road elevation while coasting on it also charges the battery, and the obvious harder press on the pedal kicking on the ICE for more battery recharge. Repeat.

Edited June 20, 2019 by allen84

[allen84]

Thanks, Allen, for this detailed instruction on how to "fix" the FFH battery problem.

 

I took my car in to my Ford dealer this morning for the annual state inspection AND the resetting of the HVB setting. I gave him the name of the Des Moines

Ford dealer that Rodney had used, but I also sent a copy of your posting to him now in order to assist his Hybrid Tech in doing he reset. The Service Manager told me this morning that he has had complaints about this problem from several other FFH owners, and that he will be excited about advising them of this "fix" if it works for me.

 

I realize that your posting was intended to tell me how to do this reset myself, but I'm a coward about messing with the operating computer, so I'll pay the dealer to do it.

 

More news later!

 

Nice. I hope it works out. I'm almost certain it will fix your problem. My cars EV functions like normal again. I loved my car, until it stopped working correctly as of last year. I hated it that it was virtually turning into regualr gasoline car. I dreaded the fact that the battery needed to be replaced, and it was pretty expensive to replace, at almost half the value of my cars currently worth. So I just sucked it up and lived with it. That is until I read and read some more about other peoples same issues with the EV. But some had way more mileage than I had (mine is currently only at 71,000 miles) . Pretty low for a 9 year old car, meaning less charging cycles. So my HVB should go for a little while longer in use.

 

That was when I realized there was a fix. I googled a ton, and piece information together. Already had the necessary items to perform this fix myself. Although I'm taking a gamble in risking screwing up my own car, but the more I read into, it didn't look too hard and I just went ahead and did it. Let's just say I love my car all over again, the way I used to remember it, working as it once did.

 

There were a few more settings in there I would love to figure to fix, namely the ones in error values on that list. I just didn't mess with those for the time being. I might look into one setting, the "config charge since rebalance" I need to figure out if that setting somehow will rebalance the HVB, since it will prolong the battery by fixing the battery capacity. I know that some of the battery cells capacity might be out of sync with other cells, and if it will somehow gets it all in line with each other.

Edited June 20, 2019 by allen84

[fun4u]

WOW! The "fix" has worked!

 

I just got my 2010 FFH back from my Ford dealer who applied the fix that Rodney shared with this forum:

 

"The fellow's name is Michael, a service manager in Steinbach. Fairway Ford, Phone: (204) 326-3412"

At my insistence, my dealer called Fairway Ford and got the specific instruction that he needed to reset the "battery age" to 1 year.

My car now runs as it was intended, in full hybrid mode. I can achieve nearly 35 mph in electric mode on a flat surface, and have improved mpg back to where it was before the problem.

The hesitation when accelerating from a stop has disappeared, which makes me very happy since this was a really dangerous condition.

An added bonus is the fact that the dealer waived the $100 fee for this service, probably because of all the money that I spent in the past trying to eliminate the problem.

Many, many thanks to Rodney for sharing this success. We all owe him our thanks.

[punkmanmatthew]

I just bought a 2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid off of Carvana with 36k miles.

 

The car drives great and I've never owned a hybrid before but I did notice the rpm thing comes on every time i hit the pedal at all and the EV thing shows when i'm coasting or stopped.

 

I also noticed my MPG is not good. I'm averaging 30 mpgs after 2 days of driving in my city so far. I'm assuming I have the same issue as everyone else has I hope. I have a few more days to return it to Carvana in the trial period but I don't want to return it because it was a good price and I really like the car.

 

Seems the battery is ok but I hope just having the same issue as you guys are having.

Edited June 21, 2019 by punkmanmatthew

[Cnaroach]

Matthew, check the manufacture date. Most of us started having problems when our 2010s hit 10 years out of the factory. It does sound like the same problem, but might be something else if your car isn't 10 years old.

[PaulGo]

Another thing to check is the HV battery level. Most of the time it should be in the middle. If it is at the high (top) level most of the time you do have the same problem as the 2010 vehicles.

[punkmanmatthew]

The date inside the drivers side door says 08/10.

 

The battery level thing does seems to always be in the middle. I've never seen it go any higher. The EV green thing is always on the bottom.

 

I do have the OBD usb reader coming in Sunday so I'm thinking about trying that fix out to see if it fixes the issue.

Edited June 22, 2019 by punkmanmatthew

[Cnaroach]

Matthew, where do you live? I'm in VA and mine works better when it's hot outside (over 75°). If it's cooler out, you might be having problems with your HVB or possibly thermostat. I'm inclined to think it's not the same issue as with 2010s since yours isn't over 10 years old.

Your car has super low miles, did it sit unused for a long time? That could have degraded the HVB.

[punkmanmatthew]

Matthew, where do you live? I'm in VA and mine works better when it's hot outside (over 75°). If it's cooler out, you might be having problems with your HVB or possibly thermostat. I'm inclined to think it's not the same issue as with 2010s since yours isn't over 10 years old.

Your car has super low miles, did it sit unused for a long time? That could have degraded the HVB.

I'm not sure if it sat for a while or not. I'm assuming it did with the low miles. I live in South Carolina so it's not cold but it is hotter this time of year but even so I keep the car in the garage and it's not super hot in the mornings on the way to work and it's doing the same thing so not sure what it is right now. Carvana has a 1 month warranty so I might just get it looked at if it keeps happening.

[lolder]

The cars are not designed to accelerate in EV mode. It can only be done very slowly on level roads . Once at speed it should stay in EV mode for only about 1/2 mile at speeds below 45 mph. The ICE then runs for about 1/2 mile and the cycle repeats. That is normal operation. The HVB SOC varies between 1/2 and about 1/3 while this occurs. It appears all the cars are going to have an EV problem due to the software.

 

Ford's silence about this is typical. It may have been done to preserve ICE starting capability of aging HVBs. The cars still operate with the degraded EV function but if the HVB became too weak to start the ICE the cars would die on the road which might prompt a recall from NHTSA which might require Ford to replace the HVB's at their expense outside of warranty.

 

In series/parallel hybrids like Fords and Toyotas, one of the two large 3 phase motor/generators in the transmission, nominally called MG1 starts the ICE with energy from the HVB. It is over 60 hp! It also controls the transmission and the application and mixing of torque to the wheels. A larger motor/generator MG2 is connected directly to the front wheels and provides power for moving and regen braking. It's a complicated system smoothly controlled by electronics and software. The transmission is actually a simple planetary gear system. No bands, clutches, solenoids, torque converters. Just gears meshing with gears to accomplish speed reduction and differential operation. There is no separate 12 v starter motor or alternator. Power to keep the 12 v battery charged comes from a solid state DC to DC converter which converts the several hundred volts of the HVB to 12 v.

 

MG1 spins the ICE up to about 1000 rpm in about 1/2 second and ignition is then turned on and fuel flow ramped in to produce a smooth power flow with MG2. The energy used to start the ICE is small but the power required is large. Power is force like horsepower and energy is power times the time like horsepower-hour.

 

When new, the HVB can put out about 25-30 hp and about 2 hp-hrs. Department of Energy tests showed this was only degraded about 8% after 160 k miles. The test cars put this mileage on in just a short time of a few years so they didn't come up on the software limit.

Edited June 22, 2019 by lolder

[punkmanmatthew]

The cars are not designed to accelerate in EV mode. It can only be done very slowly on level roads . Once at speed it should stay in EV mode for only about 1/2 mile at speeds below 45 mph. The ICE then runs for about 1/2 mile and the cycle repeats. That is normal operation. The HVB SOC varies between 1/2 and about 1/3 while this occurs. It appears all the cars are going to have an EV problem due to the software.

 

Ford's silence about this is typical. It may have been done to preserve ICE starting capability of aging HVBs. The cars still operate with the degraded EV function but if the HVB became too weak to start the ICE the cars would die on the road which might prompt a recall from NHTSA which might require Ford to replace the HVB's at their expense outside of warranty.

 

In series/parallel hybrids like Fords and Toyotas, one of the two large 3 phase motor/generators in the transmission, nominally called MG1 starts the ICE with energy from the HVB. It is over 60 hp! It also controls the transmission and the application and mixing of torque to the wheels. A larger motor/generator MG2 is connected directly to the front wheels and provides power for moving and regen braking. It's a complicated system smoothly controlled by electronics and software. The transmission is actually a simple planetary gear system. No bands, clutches, solenoids, torque converters. Just gears meshing with gears to accomplish speed reduction and differential operation. There is no separate 12 v starter motor or alternator. Power to keep the 12 v battery charged comes from a solid state DC to DC converter which converts the several hundred volts of the HVB to 12 v.

 

MG1 spins the ICE up to about 1000 rpm in about 1/2 second and ignition is then turned on and fuel flow ramped in to produce a smooth power flow with MG2. The energy used to start the ICE is small but the power required is large. Power is force like horsepower and energy is power times the time like horsepower-hour.

 

When new, the HVB can put out about 25-30 hp and about 2 hp-hrs. Department of Energy tests showed this was only degraded about 8% after 160 k miles. The test cars put this mileage on in just a short time of a few years so they didn't come up on the software limit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the info. I was worried about mine because of the MPGs being low and it always shows the RPM mode when I'm driving even at slow speeds or cruising. I don't see it cycling to EV unless I coast, am stopped or going down hill coasting. Is this pretty normal behavior? I can be going really any speed like 5mph or 30mph cruising and it will still just show the RPMs. I barley push the pedal and the RPMs and engine kicks on.

Edited June 22, 2019 by punkmanmatthew

[lolder]

That's not the original behavior. It's the battery software that is discussed in this thread.

[punkmanmatthew]

So I've been driving the car for a couple weeks now since purchase and I'm averaging 31.5 mpgs. I also set my battery age to 1 using the obd dongle.

 

I notice that if I have the car on cruise at 40mph or 35mph it will just run on the engine unless I hit the cruise button to go down 1 or 2 mphs. At this point the car will start to drive in EV mode.

 

It seems like I have to force it into EV mode by decelerating some and then setting the cruise or decelerating then just drive normally then the EV will stay on for a short time. I'm not seeing it cycling back and forth when I'm cruising.

 

Is this normal behavior? Seems like i have to manage it going into EV mode rather than the car just cycling and managing EV mode.

 

It will go into EV mode in just coasting, going down hill, or stopping but doesn't seem to want to go into EV mode while setting the cruise or just driving without cruise control on unless I first decelerate a little bit then cruise after the deceleration.

Edited July 2, 2019 by punkmanmatthew

[Cnaroach]

Sounds exactly like what mine does, and I haven't changed the battery age. Do you still have the acceleration lag?

[punkmanmatthew]

Sounds exactly like what mine does, and I haven't changed the battery age. Do you still have the acceleration lag?

 

I haven't noticed any acceleration lag with mine. It's not the fastest car in the world but not too bad.

[allen84]

So I've been driving the car for a couple weeks now since purchase and I'm averaging 31.5 mpgs. I also set my battery age to 1 using the obd dongle.

 

I notice that if I have the car on cruise at 40mph or 35mph it will just run on the engine unless I hit the cruise button to go down 1 or 2 mphs. At this point the car will start to drive in EV mode.

 

It seems like I have to force it into EV mode by decelerating some and then setting the cruise or decelerating then just drive normally then the EV will stay on for a short time. I'm not seeing it cycling back and forth when I'm cruising.

 

Is this normal behavior? Seems like i have to manage it going into EV mode rather than the car just cycling and managing EV mode.

 

It will go into EV mode in just coasting, going down hill, or stopping but doesn't seem to want to go into EV mode while setting the cruise or just driving without cruise control on unless I first decelerate a little bit then cruise after the deceleration.

 

The car is not meant to be driven in cruise control for EV mode, it just won't work that well. To get the most out of EV is if you drive the same route everyday, where you develop knowledge of the roads terrain. You become familiarized with slight down hills of the road and you take advantage of it. You can ease up on the gas pedal and let it slowly decelerate and coast on EV as long as possible. Or a long stretch of level road, where you gradually speed up to 45 mph, and then slowly lift up your foot off the gas pedal, so the EV is enabled. keep steady at that speed, but also let it drop a bit of speed, so the battery level will decrease slower, to achieve the most distance on EV.

 

Anticipate traffic ights at a distance. If coming to a yellow or red, begin slowly breaking from far away to regenerate the battery. If the battery level gets to low, drive normally to recharge battery with the engine it only takes a few minutes. Then, repeat the above process.

 

 

In areas with lots of traffic or rush hour, you won't be able to do this very much, as you might piss people off cause you're driving too slow. If so, stay on the right lane as much as possible. I work the afternoon shift and come home at night. At these hours of the day while going to work and going home at night, I can EV a lot with the least amount of traffic.

Edited July 4, 2019 by allen84

[mmtphoto]

Joined the forum just to comment on this, I have 2 2010s with this issue and a 2009 escape with i think what is the same issue. Its crazy to think that every single 2010 fusion hybrid will have this issue this year.

 

Just in case anyone else is wondering, you can reset the age yourself using software Forscan (you can do free trial, but i would encourage donating and supporting the developers) and a suitable obd adapter. From my experimentation the age is held in the "As-Built" data of the BECM, originally the discharge power limit is 27000watts temperature permitting, once the Age in the BECM hits 9 years, that goes down to 14700, and am assuming will go down even more as the age goes up. (i believe it stops at 15 years and what happens then is anyones guess)

 

Im assuming this was a cover your a** move by the engineers, a 10 year old battery capable of 100 amps at 300 volts could cause a very large fireworks show if something went wrong, so they limit it to reduce the stress on it as it ages. So reset the age at your own risk.

 

But my personal opinion is that this will shorten the age of the battery in the long run, when its limited in software it is under less stress so will obviously last longer, but thats irrelevant since by the time the battery truly fails the rest of the car will be ready for the junkyard and the small mpg difference is worth it. I expect the battery to actually last 13-15 years before true failure. safety wise, i think the battery should be plenty safe even as it ages as we have seen with other NIMH hybrids.

 

If anyone in Nashville needs this done to their fusion, please feel free to reach out!

Since you mentioned you have the 2010 FFH and a 2009 ESCAPE Hybrid, I figured I's give this a shot-I have done the re-balance with my MS 808 Autel, and have done the "year 1' fix on it too, and did two other cars owned by my neighbor-I was telling a friend about this, he has a 2006 Escape Hybrid, and he asked if this was possible to do to his car-anyone know?