Fusion Hybrid on long mountain grades??

[mwr]

I'm considering the Fusion Hybrid as my next car. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and one destination is Lake Tahoe via I-80 or Hwy 50, both of which have long stretches of up-the-mountain driving at higher altitudes (up to 7,000+ feet). I'm wondering if the battery runs out of power on those stretches, leaving you with the low-power gasoline engine only and resulting in very poor performance on those high-altitude uphill runs.

[GrySql]

I'm considering the Fusion Hybrid as my next car. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and one destination is Lake Tahoe via I-80 or Hwy 50, both of which have long stretches of up-the-mountain driving at higher altitudes (up to 7,000+ feet). I'm wondering if the battery runs out of power on those stretches, leaving you with the low-power gasoline engine only and resulting in very poor performance on those high-altitude uphill runs.

Welcome to the Forum!

I live in southern CA and have made the trip up I-395 to Tahoe, then up and over Donner Pass on I-80, to Morro Bay and home.

The FFH has no problem in the mountains keeping up or exceeding the speed limits. I drove up the Sherwin Grade above Bishop to Mammoth Lakes at 65-70mph, easily.

Be aware that the HVB does not propel the car when hill climbing power is needed, it runs on the ICE, or the ICE and HVB combined, depending the the SOC of the HVB.

The 'low-power gas engine' you are describing is in a Prius. ;)

These FFH's are a great road car with adequate power for every purpose I've tried so far. They are not a race car though, they get much better mileage so there is always a trade-off.

I seem to remember I averaged around 40 mpg's on that mountainous trip with a loaded car.

 

I'll bet you like all those acromyms! :)

Look at the 'Pinned' Acronym Decoder chart in the Welcome section to understand our lingo here.

While in the Welcome section take a look around at other interesting data that will help you understand how to drive, what to expect and other important stuff.

[mwr]

Thanks for the great reply, including the link to the acronyms :-)

 

Does the HVB get "used up" (low SOC) on long uphill grades, leaving you with the ICE only? If so, I'd think that ICE-only at 141 HP (at sea level) in a 3600 pound car would be pretty anemic at high altitude. But if your experieince is otherwise, I'll certainly defer to that.

[GrySql]

Thanks for the great reply, including the link to the acronyms :-)

 

Does the HVB get "used up" (low SOC) on long uphill grades, leaving you with the ICE only? If so, I'd think that ICE-only at 141 HP (at sea level) in a 3600 pound car would be pretty anemic at high altitude. But if your experieince is otherwise, I'll certainly defer to that.

The ICE motor is an Atkinson cycle type and provides adequate power for most use all by itself.

Going downhill, coasting and all stopping (except for emergency stops and under 5mph) is done as the eCVT regenerates the HVB, therefore the HVB is available most times when a surge of power is needed.

In addition, whenever the ICE is running the HVB is getting charged too. Which means as you climb a steep incline the HVB is charging and when the SOC is high enough the eCVT will use it to help propel the car.

 

What happens when you push on the 'gas' pedal is that a computer tells the eCVT how much power is needed and the ICE and HVB are used to provide that power, in whatever combo is best.

There is no shifting, just a smooth flow of whatever power is required, the tachometer really has no direct connection to the gas pedal.

When the car is going at a pace that the ICE is not needed the HVB is given the nod and it pushes the car.

All this is done automatically and what you, the driver, feel is a nice smooth transition between the traction motor and the ICE as they interact.

Remember, the HVB will only push the car about a mile by itself at moderate speeds.

 

This is not like anything you've driven before and it takes a while to drive it properly so that you get the most out of the car in potential mpg's.

I will also say this car is a good car on twisty mountain roads, it handles very well - quiet and comfortable at the same time.

 

BTW, if you think this car is anemic I'll tell you that last year two different members took the car to it's maximum top speed of 120mph on flat roads, the computer shutoff was reached.

The speed in the quarter mile is something like 85mph.

Driving like you used to in a gas only car will need to change to accommodate this new technology but after a while it becomes a very nice way to travel.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GrySql

[mwr]

Thanks once more! I guess I've still unsure how it would perform on a long uphill mountain stretch when the HVB runs down.

[corncobs]

Welcome to the forum and there is nothing to worry about with the FFH running out of power.

 

GrySql already gave you two perfect posts there is nothing more to add besides that he is right!

 

The HVB will never really run down / out of juice it just won't be enough to propel the car on electric only.

When the ICE runs the HVB is always charging and on a mountain pass this energy is just directly used to spin the electric motor for extra power.

Anyway GrySql already explained the FFH perfectly by saying "like nothing you have driven before" ;)

[acdii]

What was said by Gryql and Corncobs is correct. The ICE provides all the power for the car in some fashion or other. It charges the main batteries, and can also propel the car direct when called for. Doesn't matter if you are on a city street, a flat straight stretch or going up a grade, the propulsion all works the same. It will get up and over a mountain just as easy as any non Hybrid car. It most likely will out run any Toyota Hybrid up that mountain too. Shoot it could outrun just about any 4 cylinder econobox that gets close to the same MPG.

 

In this car the power is always provided by the electric motor, up to 85 MPH, the ICE assists when called for. When you road test it, that initial kick off the line is pure electric torque. The thing that helps most is since it is electric drive, you get full torque from the electric drive right off the line. When the ICE is engaged, the torque from the ICE is added in, like for passing, or climbing a grade.

[jsolan]

What vehicle are you currently driving?

I've driven up and down mountains with a 12% grade many times since owning mine. It works wonderfully. Not as much passing power as a 6 cylinder, but definitely better than say a corolla. It's about as powerful as any non-turbo 4 cylinder on the market and with the electric assist, it's actually better than most.

I was worried when I first bought mine because my family lives up in the mountains.

Here's my review after my first trip home to visit them.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6055-mpg-happy-talk/page-52?do=findComment&comment=57399

[Waldo]

The only way to run down the HVB would be to be driving at a pace that required you to use more than the 141hp of the gas engine for probably 5 minutes or more. If you're doing that, you're going to be going WAY too fast, no matter how steep the grade.

 

Besides, 141hp is enough to get any 3600lb car up any grade in the US.

[mwr]

Even at high altitude at 70 mph?

>Besides, 141hp is enough to get any 3600lb car up any grade in the US.<

Edited May 5, 2014 by mwr

[mwr]

2005 Subaru Legacy GT (Turbo) Wagon

 

>What vehicle are you currently driving?<

[mwr]

Thanks, I get it.

 

The only way to run down the HVB would be to be driving at a pace that required you to use more than the 141hp of the gas engine for probably 5 minutes or more.

[hybridbear]

We've dr

[hybridbear]

We've driven across the Rockies twice and the FFH has plenty of power. We've also passed slow moving semis while on a grade without issues. At highway speeds the car will mostly use just the ICE to drive and will keep the HVB SOC near the middle so that when you go up a hill you can use power from the battery without missing a beat. If you need more power then the ICE will just rev higher. The highest HP demand I ever saw placed on the ICE going up a grade was around 70 HP because at that point the HVB was low so it wasn't assisting.

 

As others have said, the FFH will tackle grades better than any other non-turbo 4 cyl and better than some turbo 4 cyl engines that are small like Ford's 1.6L or 1.5L ICEs available in the Fusion.

 

The FFH isn't underpowered like the Prius. We would NOT drive our Prius in the mountains because of it's lower HP.

[Easy Rider]

I think you are overly concerned.

That will happen to ANY hybrid vehicle.....except maybe the "plugin" models which have a much higher battery capacity.

 

AND what is the speed limit on these stretches of "steep grade" ?

Typically is it less than 70, so maybe you should not be concerned with whether or not it can maintain a speed that is 15 MPH over the posted limit. ;)

[mwr]

Speed limit on I-80 and Hwy 50, the main highways into the Sierra Nevada mountains, is 65 mph. "Normal" crusing speed on those roads for me and many others is 70.

 

AND what is the speed limit on these stretches of "steep grade" ?

Typically is it less than 70, so maybe you should not be concerned with whether or not it can maintain a speed that is 15 MPH over the posted limit. ;)

[GrySql]

When cars stopped using carburetors and went to Fuel Injection the 'high altitude' problem went away, and 7,000' is not really high altitude.

 

I think you need to go test drive a few hybrids to understand what we are saying. You might be surprised at how 'normal' and smooth the FFH is to drive and its performance.

In the meantime please avail yourself of all the 'pinned' posts in each separate Topic on this website, there is a lot to know.

I bought my FFH back in December of 2012 without ever driving one and it has never disappointed me in it's performance and handling.

Driving I-80 is not that difficult a highway, it has been improved so often and all but a few of the grades are pretty gradual.

Edited May 5, 2014 by GrySql

[B25Nut]

MWR - I had the same concern as you since we have a local long, steep grade (Cuesta). I didn't want to look like a wimpy hybrid driver so my first few trips were done at 70 mph, which the FFH did with no problem. The SOC of the HVB would reach 20% about 2/3 the way up, at which point the Engage gauge would stop showing any electric assist. The ICE would maintain the 70 mph the rest of the way to the top, but this method resulted in an MPG drop of over 8 compared to a 25 mile trip where I maintain 65 mph up the grade and the SOC is good for 90% of the drive up. I do try to keep my SOC as high as I can on the stretch of road leading to the grade and I start the ascent at around 75 mph.

Of course going down the grade results in 25 mile trips to the beach getting over 54 mpg. I try to get the SOC as low as I can right before descending the grade since it still reaches 100% before reaching the bottom.

A round trip to Las Vegas last week got 42.5 mpg. The majority of the time was at 75 mph or more, so I was very happy with that figure.

[mwr]

Thanks, B25Nut, for the great post that adds to my understanding of how the FFH works.

 

>compared to a 25 mile trip where I maintain 65 mph up the grade and the SOC is good for 90% of the drive up<

 

Is that the same trip in which you did 70 mph and the SOC dropped to 20? If not, how long is that 70 mph - 20% SOC uphill trip?

[Texasota]

Mwr, your situation is similar to mine. I am also considering the purchase of a FFH and have been lurking and participating on this forum for about a year. I also started a thread with the same basic concern:

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7362-long-distance-highway-driving/

 

Your skepticism is understandable and one that I also held until last Friday (05/02/2014) when I undertook a 90 mile test drive in a 2014 FFH SE. This was the first time I ever drove a hybrid (of any make).

 

I reset the trip 1 stats and then drove it 39 miles north out of the dealership onto a four lane divided highway (US 52) from Rochester MN to Cannon Falls MN with the eco-cruise set at 63 MPH. The only stop was when I turned around and returned south for the 39 mile return trip. The section of highway just south of Cannon Falls has a long and steep grade and the FFH did not waiver from the 63 MPH during the climb. During the last third of this long grade I floored it and it rapidly jumped to 80 and was still accelerating up the grade when I let up and resumed my 63 MPH cruising. Obviously this was not a mountain climb but it was longer and steeper than typical interstate grades. This convinced me that the FFH is not a dog and will preform very well for interstate driving.

 

After returning to town I drove around in the city for another 12 miles and then returned to the dealership parking lot at which point the Trip 1 stats reported 45.0 MPG. I was flabbergasted at that and also skeptical. I have thought long and hard about this over the weekend and have come up with a few possible explanations for the 45.0 MPG:

1. The MPG reported is inaccurate and is reporting a higher MPG than was actually obtained.
   
2. The mentoring, training, and knowledge I have obtained on this forum for the last year explains why I was able to achieve 45 MPG during my first hybrid driving experience.
   
3. This particular FFH bonded with me and wanted me to bring it home thus it over achieved.

Obviously I would like to believe my results were due to explanation number 2 but it may be a combination of 1 and 2 (or perhaps all of them).

 

After this test drive the only concerns that now remain for me has to do with quality and reliability which I believe are very valid concerns. This forum is full of threads dealing with quality/reliability issues. Consumer Reports also does not yet recommend this car which many on this forum attribute to bias against Ford. I don't share that view as I have lived through an unpleasant ownership experience with my 2012 Ford Focus. Everything CR said about my Focus was spot on.

[corncobs]

I vote for options 2 & 3 ;)

[Griswald]

 

After this test drive the only concerns that now remain for me has to do with quality and reliability which I believe are very valid concerns. This forum is full of threads dealing with quality/reliability issues. Consumer Reports also does not yet recommend this car which many on this forum attribute to bias against Ford. I don't share that view as I have lived through an unpleasant ownership experience with my 2012 Ford Focus. Everything CR said about my Focus was spot on.

 

 

 

Internet forums are a place for people to whine about every tiny problem that crops up. There are a hundred or so posters that will do about 75% of all the whining. That is NOT a relative sampling. This is coming from someone who has been on vehicle forums since before the www was around (BBS and USENET).

 

Don't let a few posts change your mind, Do lots of reseaerch, And as to Consumer Reports, they are very biased, I simply refuse to ever again pick up that trash rag.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Griswald

[B25Nut]

 

 

Is that the same trip in which you did 70 mph and the SOC dropped to 20? If not, how long is that 70 mph - 20% SOC uphill trip?

Going from the beach to home is a 25 mile drive, with 5 miles being the 7% grade. If I don't go over 65 mph up the grade, the trip gives me about 39 mpg. If I maintain 70 mph going up, the trip is about 31 mpg.