Preparing for winter with a comprehensive strategy to improve MPGs including grille blocking & more

[milleron]

HB, please explain how you "foamed the grille."

 

I'm sure it's explained in other threads, but did you determine that a car getting 45 mpg after 43 fuel-ups was a "lemon???"

[acdii]

HB, please explain how you "foamed the grille."

 

I'm sure it's explained in other threads, but did you determine that a car getting 45 mpg after 43 fuel-ups was a "lemon???"

You take 1/2" or 3/4" pipe insulation foam, that has a split down the middle and stick it to the grill by spreading the foam and sliding it over each grill rib. It completely blocks the openings. I have a bag at home and plan to do the same to see if I notice any improvement. The ones I made do help but I fell more air is slipping around than should and not allowing for peak heating.

 

His other car wasn't a lemon, he was just fed up with Job1 poor fit and finish and wanted more options. You know what they say( at least what I say) If you are going to be paying for it, at least get something good to pay for.

[milleron]

You take 1/2" or 3/4" pipe insulation foam, that has a split down the middle and stick it to the grill by spreading the foam and sliding it over each grill rib. It completely blocks the openings. I have a bag at home and plan to do the same to see if I notice any improvement. The ones I made do help but I fell more air is slipping around than should and not allowing for peak heating.

 

His other car wasn't a lemon, he was just fed up with Job1 poor fit and finish and wanted more options. You know what they say( at least what I say) If you are going to be paying for it, at least get something good to pay for.

 

Wow, trading a car like that in after 10 months must have caused a bloodletting at the bank! Must be nice!

 

Anyway, thanks for the extremely clever idea about "foaming the grille." That would be ( a ) inexpensive, ( b ) very safe for the grille finish, and ( c ) really unsightly . . . unless they make foam pipe insulation in "chrome finish."

Edited December 18, 2013 by milleron

[ptjones]

I was just thinking about something relating to grille covers...foam vs plastic...

 

I foamed the C-Max Energi grille and its coolant temp reached >190F driving on the freeway. I foamed the Prius grille and its coolant temp reaches >190F with outside air temps of -5 to -10F on the freeway. The FFH has both top & bottom plastic covers, yet it never gets much above 180-184F even after 45 minutes at 65-70 MPH. The C-Max with foam reached 180F after less than 8 minutes on the interstate and 190 after about 20 minutes. The FFH with plastic takes at least 20 minutes just to get to 175-180F. I'm thinking I might need to go to Menards and buy some more foam and try an experiment of foam on the FFH instead of the plastic grille covers to see if the foam does a better job of insulating the ICE. Any thoughts?

The problem isn't insulation, it's air flow. If you aren't getting to at least 210degrees (when the shutters start to open) you have work to do sealing up the Grills. Remember the optimum operating temp is 202-212degrees and it is better to be above that temp than below it. When you turn on the heater you will quickly drop temps by about 20degrees so without heater you want to be able to get to 220degrees at least. I use clear packing tape because it's quick, easy and cheap to use to seal up the Grill Covers. For those concerned about temps, set your MyView to Empowered on left side and Temperature right side, you wil be suprised how cold the ICE runs. BTW remember even if you could completely seal up the front grill, air is still coming in the ICE compartment from the bottom of the car cooling oil pan and ICE. IMO the oil pan does about 20-25% of the cooling job. :)

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

HB, please explain how you "foamed the grille."

 

I'm sure it's explained in other threads, but did you determine that a car getting 45 mpg after 43 fuel-ups was a "lemon???"

See here for the issues we had: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7868-one-year-ownership-reports-2013-ffh/?p=71756

MN Lemon Law calls for 30 days in the shop within the first 18 months of ownership. We would've gotten there. However, based on the experiences posted by others of how Ford handles those claims we decided that we were better off saving the time of fighting for a Lemon Law claim and just trading it in. Because of the deals over Black Friday week it was not much of a loss. About $4500 to go from 19,000 miles back down to 0 miles. The $4500 factors in paying sales tax & registration twice and factors in the additional features on the new car but not the features we paid for but don't want like premium paint or 18-inch wheels. You can check out this thread too for more of how it happened.

 

Here are pictures of the foam grille blocking on my wife's Prius and on my parents' C-Max Energi.

 

 

You take 1/2" or 3/4" pipe insulation foam, that has a split down the middle and stick it to the grill by spreading the foam and sliding it over each grill rib. It completely blocks the openings. I have a bag at home and plan to do the same to see if I notice any improvement. The ones I made do help but I fell more air is slipping around than should and not allowing for peak heating.

 

His other car wasn't a lemon, he was just fed up with Job1 poor fit and finish and wanted more options. You know what they say( at least what I say) If you are going to be paying for it, at least get something good to pay for.

I don't open the foam and put it over the chrome, rather I've squeezed the foam shut and slipped it between the chrome. You cut slits to allow it to sit deeply in there and then it is secure. Foam for 1/2" pipes is what I've used. I agree that the edges of the plastic grille cover allow quite a bit of air by and that I might be able to reduce the airflow by blocking with foam instead. The plastic is likely good for warmer weather and foam for the extreme cold.

 

Wow, trading a car like that in after 10 months must have caused a bloodletting at the bank! Must be nice!

 

Anyway, thanks for the extremely clever idea about "foaming the grille." That would be ( a ) inexpensive, ( b ) very safe for the grille finish, and ( c ) really unsightly . . . unless they make foam pipe insulation in "chrome finish."

It wasn't bad financially. Otherwise we would've bought an extended warranty and stuck with our car. See above.

 

Also, it is a little unsightly on the Prius, but not bad on the C-Max since I found some dark gray insulation to use. It's also an experience thing. The Prius pieces are a bit jagged because it was the first time I tried this. The C-Max pieces all fit perfectly and are more snug because I knew what I was doing better by then.

 

The problem isn't insulation, it's air flow. If you aren't getting to at least 210degrees (when the shutters start to open) you have work to do sealing up the Grills. Remember the optimum operating temp is 202-212degrees and it is better to be above that temp than below it. When you turn on the heater you will quickly drop temps by about 20degrees so without heater you want to be able to get to 220degrees at least. I use clear packing tape because it's quick, easy and cheap to use to seal up the Grill Covers. For those concerned about temps, set your MyView to Empowered on left side and Temperature right side, you wil be suprised how cold the ICE runs. BTW remember even if you could completely seal up the front grill, air is still coming in the ICE compartment from the bottom of the car cooling oil pan and ICE. IMO the oil pan does about 20-25% of the cooling job. :)

 

Paul

It's really both. Airflow when driving and insulation when the car is shut off with a hot ICE in cold weather. I think that I can further reduce the airflow with foam compared to the top & bottom plastic grille covers from acdii which will increase temps. I think that foam will also provide better insulation to slow the rate of ICE cooling when the car is turned off. I have never seen the coolant temp reach 210F. I don't think I've ever seen it reach 200F. As I mentioned here it seems that 85C is about the peak I've seen without the grille cover. Even with the grille cover 85C was about the peak I saw as mentioned here. Granted, this was pre-PCM update so the grille shutters were open because the AC was on. 85C is 185F.

 

I have the coolant temp on My View and I just frequently flip back and forth between Empower & My View. I don't need to monitor coolant temps non-stop so a periodic check is good enough for me.

Edited December 18, 2013 by hybridbear

[ptjones]

When I had the 2014 FFH with Grill Covers with 70degrees OT I was able to get to 225degrees in 10minutes on FWY at 70mph

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

With foam the coolant temp still didn't exceed 190F. However, it did seem to reach that temp much more quickly...

 

I think the foam is less conspicuous too...

[milleron]

I thought you'd use the slit to wrap it around the grill members. Hence, my comment about it being "unsightly." The way you've done it, however, looks very nice, indeed!

Even though I purchased the Lexan cover, I may well give foam a try first.

[ptjones]

I thought you'd use the slit to wrap it around the grill members. Hence, my comment about it being "unsightly." The way you've done it, however, looks very nice, indeed!

Even though I purchased the Lexan cover, I may well give foam a try first.

r

 

It will be interesting to see what temps you will reach with the Grill Covers on.

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

It will be interesting to see what temps you will reach with the Grill Covers on.

 

Paul

You mentioned getting above 200F with your grille covers. What were the ambient temps? Did you still get above 200F with ambient temps below freezing? In MN it won't be consistently above freezing again until late March or early April. I'm seeing 185-190F on the interstate with outside temps 15F or below. I think that's pretty good.

 

With foam this afternoon the coolant temp rose from 39C to 84C in less than 3 miles on the freeway at 60-65 MPH when I was driving from our plant in Owatonna to our plant in Faribault for a meeting. That seems much faster than with the plastic...

[acdii]

The foam is a lot less expensive and easier to use, but can also fall out without you knowing it. I might pull my cover put the foam in and put the cover back on, could be the padding that I am looking for too.

[ptjones]

You mentioned getting above 200F with your grille covers. What were the ambient temps? Did you still get above 200F with ambient temps below freezing? In MN it won't be consistently above freezing again until late March or early April. I'm seeing 185-190F on the interstate with outside temps 15F or below. I think that's pretty good.

 

With foam this afternoon the coolant temp rose from 39C to 84C in less than 3 miles on the freeway at 60-65 MPH when I was driving from our plant in Owatonna to our plant in Faribault for a meeting. That seems much faster than with the plastic...

With the CMAX I'm able to get low 200degrees when OT in 20's. I'm wondering if my covers fit tighter?

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

With the CMAX I'm able to get low 200degrees when OT in 20's. I'm wondering if my covers fit tighter?

 

Paul

You have sealed up around your covers with tape, correct? I haven't done that.

[ptjones]

You have sealed up around your covers with tape, correct? I haven't done that.

No I didn't but will do more testing at 20-30's degrees when get my car back in a week or so.

 

Paul

[milleron]

r

 

It will be interesting to see what temps you will reach with the Grill Covers on.

 

Paul

I don't have a Scan Guage. All I can see is the little coolant thermometer in My View, and it stays right in the middle of the "normal" range.

[milleron]

The foam is a lot less expensive and easier to use, but can also fall out without you knowing it. I might pull my cover put the foam in and put the cover back on, could be the padding that I am looking for too.

 

Superb idea. Installing the lexan cover over the foam is my next step. Today, with foam only & temps in mid-50s, I got 40.3 mpg on a mostly-freeway trip that gave be 42-44 in the summer. I considered that to be a pretty good result for the windy, cool conditions.

[DrewFM]

That is why I use LEXAN type plastic, It's more expensive but it doesn't break. I used mine all year long with no problems. BTW my current record is 63.4MPG, 875mi, 13.8gal on a trip to FL and back.

Paul

Paul

WOW!! I am getting a grille cover.

[DrewFM]

Flash!! This just in...... (insert breaking news story music here)

 

 

Secret spy photo of Hybridbears new grille warmer and comprehensive winter MPG plan.

 

Now we know.... :camera:

 

lolol

[Da0ne]

Thanks Paul,

 

Grille covers do helped out alot last week when i received them during the snow storm w/ outside temp 25* i went ahead and put them on an noticed the diffence in heat and mpg was around 38 - 42 compared to the week before same temp outside i was only getting 28 - 35 mpg

 

grille cover on

 

 

this weekend though the temp outside where 55 - 72 and the mpg where almost the same as summer mpg

[acdii]

Thats a huge temp swing, 28-72?

[Da0ne]

Thats a huge temp swing, 28-72?

 

yea it was but back to reality this week today 60 and dropping by tomorrow 37 with chance of snow

[KLH]

It sounds like using a grille cover is a great idea. Any consensus on covering just the top... or should we cover both top and bottom?

[ptjones]

Top and bottom to get the Max and it's only $25 extra. :)

 

Paul

[acdii]

I saw no noticeable difference with both covered, but then it has been so cold lately that even my Flex is having a hard time staying warm. I have both covered now, but the temps have stayed the same as when I just had the top covered.

[hybridbear]

Validation for the benefits of grille blocking

http://transportevolved.com/2014/01/03/guest-post-how-to-help-your-plug-in-hybrid-warm-this-winter/