acdii Report post Posted February 17, 2015 Well ice reduces friction, however, it takes more energy to move on ice since there is less traction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Automate Report post Posted February 17, 2015 Friction also increases. Tires lose air pressure. Rubber stiffness changes as well. The transmission fluid also is much thicker at lower temps which greatly increases internal friction. Finally, snow & ice on the roads increases friction. All true, but it still does not add up to a 40% loss. If so and you get 40 MPG at 70F then you would only get 24 MPG at 0F. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted February 18, 2015 All true, but it still does not add up to a 40% loss. If so and you get 40 MPG at 70F then you would only get 24 MPG at 0F.Remember, this is an Energi, not a hybrid. A large part of the loss is due to the electric heater element in the Energi. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted February 19, 2015 All true, but it still does not add up to a 40% loss. If so and you get 40 MPG at 70F then you would only get 24 MPG at 0F.Not quite that bad but close. The EPA tests are done at 60-70º F. Over a fairly broad temperature range there is a 2 mpg decline for every 10º F. decline. Headwinds cost 3 mpg for 10 mph headwind and 70% of all winds are headwinds because of the vector sum of the winds and car velocity. Winter's a Birch ! 1 hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corncobs Report post Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Not quite that bad but close. The EPA tests are done at 60-70º F. Over a fairly broad temperature range there is a 2 mpg decline for every 10º F. decline. Headwinds cost 3 mpg for 10 mph headwind and 70% of all winds are headwinds because of the vector sum of the winds and car velocity. Winter's a Birch !I had all of the above combined on a trip into WI today. About an 160 mile round trip with strong NW winds @ 5*F. Outbound > 33.1 MPGInbound > 38.2 MPG Edited February 19, 2015 by corncobs 3 GrySql, acdii and hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hikyuuri Report post Posted February 22, 2015 I just wanted to say that I just brought my car into the dealer for its 15000 mile checkup. They commented on the foam in the grill. I told them that a dealership up by Duluth recommended I do that after I brought it in because I had no heat in the -20 weather. My dealership just accepted that answer and didn't say anything about it. Also, I have had zero issues with the foam falling out. I have an unlimited wash pass from a touch-free carwash system, and it does have high pressure water jets. Even that has not caused any of the foam to come loose. 2 ptjones and hybridbear reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hikyuuri Report post Posted March 16, 2015 Just another update as the weather gets warmer again. The weather has started to hit the 60s here in MN, and I still have the foam in the upper grill. Temperatures still appear fine (Scan Guage showing 208 thru 215 as the highest it gets). I have not used the AC in the car yet, so I'm sure that will cause the temps to go up even higher, and I know the AC will not work well with foam blocking its radiator. My question is, at what point do you think it would be good to remove some of the foam? I have been telling myself if the ICE water temp gets above 220F I would start removing some of the pieces, but not all of them. What are peoples thoughts on that? Does it make sense to keep some foam in to keep the airodynamics better, or to remove all of othem for better cooling (especially for the AC)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
acdii Report post Posted March 16, 2015 Once temps are steady in the 60's is when I remove them. It is still too soon to remove them as the rest of this week and into next will still be mid 40's. Usually in April is when they can come off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted March 16, 2015 As a voice in the wilderness, I again say remove the covers. 2 Texasota and DeeCee reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
milleron Report post Posted March 16, 2015 As a voice in the wilderness, I again say remove the covers. Are you against the covers in general or are you merely recommending removing them at this particular time? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted March 16, 2015 Just another update as the weather gets warmer again. The weather has started to hit the 60s here in MN, and I still have the foam in the upper grill. Temperatures still appear fine (Scan Guage showing 208 thru 215 as the highest it gets). I have not used the AC in the car yet, so I'm sure that will cause the temps to go up even higher, and I know the AC will not work well with foam blocking its radiator. My question is, at what point do you think it would be good to remove some of the foam? I have been telling myself if the ICE water temp gets above 220F I would start removing some of the pieces, but not all of them. What are peoples thoughts on that? Does it make sense to keep some foam in to keep the aerodynamics better, or to remove all of them for better cooling (especially for the AC)?Check out this post. Turning on the AC actually reduces ICE temp by opening the grille shutters all the way. I'm not comfortable letting the ICE temp go above 215. Above 220 the ICE begins to behave differently. Last weekend we drove to Wisconsin when the temp was in the 50s. The ICE temp reached 217 or 218 a few times but mostly it stayed between 205-215. I still have both grilles completely blocked. We don't anticipate using the ICE again until late April so I'm leaving the grille blocked since it doesn't have much impact when running the Energi in EV mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted March 16, 2015 Check out this post. Turning on the AC actually reduces ICE temp by opening the grille shutters all the way. I'm not comfortable letting the ICE temp go above 215. Above 220 the ICE begins to behave differently. Last weekend we drove to Wisconsin when the temp was in the 50s. The ICE temp reached 217 or 218 a few times but mostly it stayed between 205-215. I still have both grilles completely blocked. We don't anticipate using the ICE again until late April so I'm leaving the grille blocked since it doesn't have much impact when running the Energi in EV mode. hybridbear "Above 220 the ICE begins to behave differently" Did you see anything on your gauges or just feel something? The ICE Overheating Warning comes on at 247*F WT and the only time this could happen is on a long uphill climb. I believe most members without Grill Covers never get into the operating range of the ICE (202-112*F according to FORD) and their MPG's suffer from that. Grill Covers are worth 30-40mi farther per tank. :) Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted March 16, 2015 hybridbear "Above 220 the ICE begins to behave differently" Did you see anything on your gauges or just feel something? The ICE Overheating Warning comes on at 247*F WT and the only time this could happen is on a long uphill climb. I believe most members without Grill Covers never get into the operating range of the ICE (202-112*F according to FORD) and their MPG's suffer from that. Grill Covers are worth 30-40mi farther per tank. :) PaulThe ICE pulsates. We've experienced this on all 3 Fusions. See this post. Seventh topic: maximizing ICE temp without overheating On our last day in California we went to Joshua Tree National Park. Entering the park from the south you do a pretty steep climb at 35-45 MPH speed limit. This type of climb causes the ICE temp to increase more so that during a similar climb at 55-65 MPH. This caused the ICE coolant temp to reach 225. The highest peak we saw was 227 F. The grille shutters begin to open at 215 F. At 225 F the ICE fan came on and the grille shutters were about half open. The ICE also began a weird pulsating behavior. What I mean by that is that while the ICE was running it wouldn't run smoothly at a nearly fixed RPM & power output. I'd be driving with a constant pedal pressure and the wheel kW would be fairly constant. But the ICE might rev up to 2700 RPM at 28 kW of power and then it'd drop down to 2000 RPM and 20 kW of power. The traction motor from the battery was constantly adjusting to make up the difference. Once the ICE temp dropped under 220 F this went away. I have experienced this in the black FFH after extended highway driving through mountains when pulling into a city and having the heat sink effect increase the temp of the ICE coolant. It happened in the FFH without any grille blocking. It appears that above 220-225 the ICE begins this behavior. I tried removing grille blocking but this didn't do anything to reduce ICE temps because car doesn't open the grille shutters or turn on the fan until it's already this hot.We also experienced this same behavior in the white FFH when the ICE temp went above 220 F. I never had a ScanGauge or anything to monitor temps when this happened in the black FFH. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PennyPinchr Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Hi all! First time poster. I just purchased my FFH recently and have been addicted to this forum ever since. You all are a wealth of knowledge!I went to Home Depot today, to purchase foam for my grille, and found a black foam pipe insulation with a more rubbery feel. I think the black would look even better than the grey. Has anyone tried this? Does it hold up any better or worse? also, would you need a larger diameter (it seems a little less dense)?Thanks for your help! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted September 15, 2015 Hi all! First time poster. I just purchased my FFH recently and have been addicted to this forum ever since. You all are a wealth of knowledge!I went to Home Depot today, to purchase foam for my grille, and found a black foam pipe insulation with a more rubbery feel. I think the black would look even better than the grey. Has anyone tried this? Does it hold up any better or worse? also, would you need a larger diameter (it seems a little less dense)?Thanks for your help!Welcome! Black would probably hide even better than the gray does. I don't know if anyone has tried the same insulation that you bought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoatDrinksQ5 Report post Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) That is the more expensive neoprene-like style I would think (with self sealing tape/glue). Winter is coming... already noticing the extra runtime on the ICE due to 'heating'... plus extended runtimes when it needs to get to minimum coolant temp(?). Glad I found this topic ! Gonna have to pickup some insulation asap!!!! Edited October 21, 2015 by BoatDrinksQ5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted October 22, 2015 The ICE pulsates. We've experienced this on all 3 Fusions. See this post.We also experienced this same behavior in the white FFH when the ICE temp went above 220 F. I never had a ScanGauge or anything to monitor temps when this happened in the black FFH.That is very interesting about the pulsing, I have never noticed this with the CMAX. With the CMAX Hybrid I've gotten up to 247*F twice to my surprise(Alarm going off) going up long steep hills and I immediately turned defrost on which only takes maybe 10 seconds for temps to drop quickly and It also helps to let off the gas too! With both lower and middle grills blocked off and upper one open for intake air and ICE compartment cooling I quite often hit 230*F, which is not a big deal if you monitor Smart Gauge Temp gauge, the needle is only slightly above the middle at that temp. The Perfect temperature for ICE WT with Shutters open to allow for air to flow through Trans, Inverter Coolers and get the best MPG's.is 215*F This is only possible 95% of the time with Grill Covers on. :) Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted October 22, 2015 The ICE pulsates. We've experienced this on all 3 Fusions. See this post.We also experienced this same behavior in the white FFH when the ICE temp went above 220 F. I never had a ScanGauge or anything to monitor temps when this happened in the black FFH.Were you using Regular or Premium? :) :shift: Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted October 22, 2015 That is very interesting about the pulsing, I have never noticed this with the CMAX.There was no noticeable feeling in how the car drove, just a sound. I could see it on my tablet with Torque Pro. Were you using Regular or Premium? :) :shift:We always use 87 or 89 octane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted October 22, 2015 There was no noticeable feeling in how the car drove, just a sound. I could see it on my tablet with Torque Pro. We always use 87 or 89 octane.I don't know what to make of it. What did you see on Torque Pro? Now I only monitor SOC,WT,IT and TFT on ScanGaugeII. I have been over 230*F over a hundred times at least and haven't noticed any sounds or function of ICE that would alert me to a problem. I will have to listen better I guess, I will say it doesn't seem to hurt the MPG's. ;) Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridbear Report post Posted October 22, 2015 I don't know what to make of it. What did you see on Torque Pro? Now I only monitor SOC,WT,IT and TFT on ScanGaugeII. I have been over 230*F over a hundred times at least and haven't noticed any sounds or function of ICE that would alert me to a problem. I will have to listen better I guess, I will say it doesn't seem to hurt the MPG's. ;) Paul This post contains more info: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/9689-road-trip-observations-with-torque-pro/page-2?do=findComment&comment=92301 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted October 23, 2015 Using FORD's Smart Gauge Temp Gauge your not over heating until 247*F which is the top white line on temp gauge. I think you could infer that FORD isn't concerned unless you get above that temp. Above 247*F ICE Computer starts pulling the power back to save the ICE from possible damage. Next time I'm going to be making along uphill climb I will watch power and rpm's. :) Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky14FFH Report post Posted December 17, 2017 I would like to see pictures on this. I have been considering doing a grill block behind the grill with just cardboard. I'm freezing here and my HVAC system takes a LONG time to heat up. A secondary question is, does anyone know if Ford had an update to flash the ECU for winter driving to make the engine warm up faster? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ptjones Report post Posted December 17, 2017 You really want the cover to go over the front of the Grills. It's more aerodynamic and simple to install. :) Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky14FFH Report post Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I wasn't able to zoom in on the photos, said I do not have permission. Is this the same setup that was described in the original post that acdii made? Are you able to take it off and reinstall it every year? From what I can see it looks good though. Edited December 17, 2017 by Sky14FFH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
