New 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid

[dalesky]

I remember the last Accord attempt, which nobody bought, mainly because of the price. This time it seems they may have done much better. That dash tho! Could there be any more screens to look at? I really like the FFH approach.

[dalesky]

EPA ratings annouced for the Accord Hybrid.

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Accord hybrid rated 50 mpg in city

http://usat.ly/17D1Drm

Wonder how they are getting this high city figure with a sedan this large. I know Toyota is redesigning the Prius, and expects to have higher city mileage as well.

[dalesky]

Gotta say I'm partial to VWs. Had nothing but good experiences with two different vehicles, although neither was a TDi. The main reason I looked elsewhere when buying was to avoid diesel prices (it's a big jump here) and because I dislike the styling of the Jetta Hybrid, plus it was too small for me. Also, VW dealers are few and far between where I live (The closest being more than an hour away) and it costs an amazing amount of money to fix the smallest issues.

 

Here too the price difference is quite large. It's a shame since we have such good year round weather and a diesel is so easy to live with in warmer climates especially.

[dalesky]

I might as well jump in here and keep it off topic one more time.

My brother just bought a mid-level optioned 2013 VW Golf 4-door TDI, his '08 Jetta TDI was crashed.

Looks like a Kenmore refrig on it's side with extra freezer doors to me but I smiled and said it was lovely.

Anyway, esthetics aside, he says he gets about 36-38 around town and 42 on the highway so far, expects more as the miles pile on.

He likes driving it, has a Sport suspension button for the twisty roads and he claims the seats are comfortable.

Not much in the way of gadgets and gizmos inside or out, but that can be a good thing for some.

I say get what makes you happy.

 

I really don't understand why I love this FFH so much, even with all downsides that get reported here.

 

Last night, auto start to cool the car before I got in, AC at 74, trip of about 15 miles at speeds up to 65, I got 55 MPG. Diesel, schmiesel! We don't need no stinking diesel, do we?

[hybridbear]

Wonder how they are getting this high city figure with a sedan this large. I know Toyota is redesigning the Prius, and expects to have higher city mileage as well.

They gamed the EPA test cycles just like Ford!!! I can't wait to see what the real world results are! My guess is that Honda will try to not sell these just like they're doing with the plug in so that they won't have many cars on the road and thus less complaints about bad MPGs.

[Eddie Sessum]

For those saying they did just like ford. Take a look at the size of the battery in that car. I cant find info right this min but I did before when i looked. Its massively larger than our car has. Trunk space is massively small too.

 

Motortrend in there testing got 59mpg with it tho.

 

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1308_2014_honda_accord_hybrid_japan_first_drive/

 

 

 

Japanese specs, so we will loose some MPG by the fact that everything in the USA gets the software ... with before it gets to our hands even if all it does is makes things worse (Cell phones and crapware are a good example).

 

Ill try to find the battery size info for you guys in a few min.

Edited September 8, 2013 by hybridbear
inappropriate language removed

[Eddie Sessum]

Fusion 1.4kWh battery.

Accord Hybrid Plug-in 41kWh

Accord Hybrid 6.7kWh

 

 

Says the accord looses right under 9cu ft of trunk space because of the battery vs the gas model. My trunk is already small, I dont want that lol

Edited September 7, 2013 by Eddie Sessum

[corncobs]

Not sure how these numbers make sense the regular HAH has a HVB that almost 5x bigger but they are only rated 3 MPG higher for city than a FFH?!?

 

This battery is almost as big as the FFE HVB which can go 21 miles EV only.

 

AND there is another reason I bought (and would buy again) a FFH even if the results aren't top anymore; there is nothing more stupid IMO than making a hybrid version stand out from the regular car. All these blue accents everywhere bah ...

 

I so glad that Ford made the FFH as normal looking and hardly visible different from its gas only brothers and sisters.

 

Anyway we all have our own opinions and I still love my decision to buy a FFH.

Edited September 7, 2013 by corncobs

[Eddie Sessum]

I dont mind the blue stuff. But the accord is still just that. A blah accord.

 

I think with the bigger battery that would benefit in hilly situations. Engine pushing you up and keeping the SOC high.

 

Based on what I see in the MKZ though charging the battery pulls the milage down on flat land. Hills may help us also.

 

 

As for the FFH... That happy hybrid logo on the side... LOL

 

I like my little 2.0H

Edited September 9, 2013 by acdii
Reported for offensive language.

[corncobs]

I like my little 2.0H

That might even be a nice little mod because I that decal on the MKZ. On the other hand I have a custom hybrid specific license plate frame so I don't mind the hybrid logos but like I said I don't not like all the hybrid mods on the competition.

[Eddie Sessum]

I saw what i believe was a yaris hybrid earlier and it actually looked pretty good.. Was too small to be a prius for sure and it has the blue logo and ... on the front lol

Edited September 8, 2013 by hybridbear
inappropriate language removed

[dalesky]

They gamed the EPA test cycles just like Ford!!! I can't wait to see what the real world results are! My guess is that Honda will try to not sell these just like they're doing with the plug in so that they won't have many cars on the road and thus less complaints about bad MPGs.

The way the EPA has structured the tests I don't blame the manufacturers really. I do wish there was an honest attempt to show real world numbers, but until everyone agrees on how to do that I guess we have to read the reviews, like Consumer Reports and others that do give honest figures. I would not be surprised to see that Honda is doing exactly what every other manufacturer is doing. Given the horsepower of their electric motor, it will take some significant amount of ICE fuel to run it.

[Eddie Sessum]

Atleast we dont have the problems they have in europe. I think 50mpg here is around 70mpg there..

[corncobs]

Atleast we dont have the problems they have in europe. I think 50mpg here is around 70mpg there..

Not quite that high but the FFH would be rated 52 city and is just because the test cycles are different.

They actually test city/highway/autobahn which I believe are at 30/60/80 MPH roughly.

[hybridbear]

Motortrend in their testing got 59mpg with it tho.

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1308_2014_honda_accord_hybrid_japan_first_drive/

Their comments about driving to maximize fuel economy and easily clearing the EPA rating are the same with the FFH. It all depends on how and where you drive.

[Eddie Sessum]

Their comments about driving to maximize fuel economy and easily clearing the EPA rating are the same with the FFH. It all depends on how and where you drive.

 

 

Too bad we cant get info on where they tested at if it was flat, hilly or what..

[fusionTX]

They gamed the EPA test cycles just like Ford!!! I can't wait to see what the real world results are! My guess is that Honda will try to not sell these just like they're doing with the plug in so that they won't have many cars on the road and thus less complaints about bad MPGs.

What is your source for saying they gamed the EPA just like Ford?

Will be interesting to see what they do real world.

Edited September 8, 2013 by fusionTX

[fusionTX]

EPA ratings annouced for the Accord Hybrid.

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Accord hybrid rated 50 mpg in city

http://usat.ly/17D1Drm

Interesting corncobs. The field is getting crowded.

I still like the looks of the Fusion, but people associate Honda and Toyota with reliability.

[Sleddog]

Interesting corncobs. The field is getting crowded.

I still like the looks of the Fusion, but people associate Honda and Toyota with reliability.

I'm not sure about that. With the lawsuits against Honda for there MPG ratings and the loss of mileage after they released a software update, and all the Toyota recalls lately, I don't see them as reliable. I see them as just another car company.

[hybridbear]

What is your source for saying they gamed the EPA just like Ford?

Will be interesting to see what they do real world.

 

No one is immune to the laws of physics. Note that while the FFH has a higher EPA rating than the TCH the Fuelly data shows them to have about the same overall average MPG, about 40.5 MPG (the FFH median is actually 41 and the TCH median is 40 but they're close enough that I'm calling them equal for this comparison). However, the FFH has more upside if you have a hybrid friendly commute or as you gain experience driving a hybrid as evidenced by the high averages seen by jeff_h and others who average more than 47 MPG for the life of their car.

 

You'll notice that between the 3 cars above they're all very close in ICE HP and torque, Electric Motor power & torque, curb weight and drag coefficient. While the new HAH has a higher C_d it has a lower curb weight, those two factors work to offset each other to make it roughly equal to the FFH. The TCH has the best C_dand the lightest curb weight. However, because its ICE is larger and cannot shut off at high speeds like in the FFH its EPA fuel economy is lower while Fuelly results indicate it is about the same as the FFH. The articles published about the HAH indicate that Honda designed the non-plug-in hybrid to run as much as possible on electric power at low speeds, much like the FFH. With a larger traction motor the Honda will be able to spend even more time in EV Mode in city driving and thus it gets a higher EPA City MPG than the FFH or TCH. On the freeway however, current reviews indicate that the top speed for EV Mode in the HAH is 50 MPH. This means that the ICE is not shutting off at all while on the freeway. This is likely a key factor in the lower EPA Hwy MPG compared to the FFH. Notice how similar the ICE specs are between the HAH and FFH. Same displacement, only a slight difference in torque.

 

The HAH compression ratio is 13.0 while the FFH is 12.3. The HAH bore x stroke is 3.19 x 3.81 and the FFH is 3.45 x 3.27 inches. Overall the ICE performance should be very similar. It all comes down to programming. Like Ford, I believe this evidence indicates that Honda tailored their programming to the EPA test cycles. By achieving that "magic" 50 MPG number Honda can advertise that their car gets better gas mileage than the FFH. And they can broadcast 50 MPG all over the place like Ford did with 47 MPG. While the FFH gets 47 MPG on the EPA tests, many owners find that hard to do in the real world. While the HAH gets 50/45/47 on the EPA tests I likewise surmise that it will be a challenge for most owners to get that in the real world. The only thing missing from the table above is the HAH battery size. Honda has not yet published details about the battery size in the non-plug-in version. Or at least, I couldn't find that data anywhere online.

 

Note: I took screenshots of the Fuelly data but the Forum won't allow those images. I'm working on another way to add them. It also doesn't display my Excel table correctly....grrrrr :angry22: :banghead:

Update: Got it! I took another screen shot and then used Photobucket

Edited September 8, 2013 by hybridbear

[fusionTX]

I am willing to wait for real world data before declaring that Honda gamed the system, the same way Ford did. I have a hard time believing that after all the negative publicity Ford has received, that Honda would follow in its footsteps. But we will find out soon enough.

[Eddie Sessum]

I still say from my experience our cars going in and out of ev mode hurts our mpg between 63 and 66mph.. The charging uses more fuel than just running the ICE. I've tested multiple times and once the soc is up I get 2-3mpg more at 70mph since the update.

[dalesky]

What is your source for saying they gamed the EPA just like Ford?

Will be interesting to see what they do real world.

Every manufacturer sets their cars up to maximize the MPG using the EPA testing cycle. I can't think of any that actually deliver what their EPA tests show. It's simply a proven technique. It's like virtually all advertising- mostly made up to sell a product.

[Ted Swing]

If Ford (and others) can follow the rules and give misleading numbers, that's the EPA's fault for making a test cycle that's easily gamed, not Ford's fault for doing the best they can within the rules. The EPA needs to come up with a test cycle that acknowledges that people drive over 50 MPH for extended periods of time, accelerate faster than 3 MPH/s, etc.

 

That said, has the bad publicity really hurt Ford? They lowered the EPA estimate on the C-Max hybrid in August and had record sales that month. They are selling Fusion Hybrids as fast as they can make them. I just ordered my first FFH and was well aware of all of the controversy about the fuel efficiency. It just didn't change my mind. By the same token, I can't really blame Honda for doing the same thing (if, in fact, they did).

[hybridbear]

Interesting article explaining how the new HAH works. I'm really keen to drive one once they arrive at dealers and compare to the FFH.

 

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130930/OEM06/309309954/how-the-honda-accords-innovative-hybrid-system-works#axzz2gZqjR9hP