Not making EPA numbers Scare me...

[jgilliam1955]

As some may have seen my other post, I will be buying a new car next year.

But what is scaring me away from the Ford Hybrids is the cars not meeting there EPA numbers.

As someone who drives a 11 year old VW Jetta TDI with 195K miles on it, I am use to 40 MPG. I average 40 MPG last tank full & this week decided to drive it like a Hybrid and got 56 MPG. Of course it was a lot of work.

I am noticing the Toyota & Lexus Hybrids always make the EPA numbers. My daughter loves her Lexus Hybrid.

Also a diesel always exceeds the EPA numbers with out trying. The new Passat will get 50 MPG on diesel and you do not have to baby it.

I REALLY like the Ford hybrids but am very disappoint with the numbers being in the 30's not 40's. Maybe by the next year they will address this.

[kmil]

I'm new to hybrid driving, but I just got 43mpg in my hybrid titanium this morning. Granted the temperature was in the 30's, and a sizable portion of my drive is on 70mph highway.

 

Honestly, I think it depends where you are, the terrain, and temp. It's unfortunate the EPA number is so dumbed down to a single digit. The EPA should work to publish multiple mpg numbers for each major area that changes MPG. That however, would bloat the government. So I will stick to websites like Fuelly and make judgements that include those crowd sourced numbers. The more data out there, the more educated people will be.

 

What's hurting my MPG? Michigan Spring-Winter, and be that I mean Winter still in the Spring, it snowed yesterday!

[aaronj1159]

I'm new to hybrid driving, but I just got 43mpg in my hybrid titanium this morning. Granted the temperature was in the 30's, and a sizable portion of my drive is on 70mph highway.

 

Honestly, I think it depends where you are, the terrain, and temp. It's unfortunate the EPA number is so dumbed down to a single digit. The EPA should work to publish multiple mpg numbers for each major area that changes MPG. That however, would bloat the government. So I will stick to websites like Fuelly and make judgements that include those crowd sourced numbers. The more data out there, the more educated people will be.

 

What's hurting my MPG? Michigan Spring-Winter, and be that I mean Winter still in the Spring, it snowed yesterday!

Ha, yeah we had a sizable snowstorm 10 days ago down here in SW Virginia! And yes I agree with all of this. Some mornings when it's warmer and clear I'm getting 53 MPG on my way to work, which is 30 miles of highway (65-70 MPH) and 5 in town. But on cooler, wet mornings like today I might get somewhere closer to 46-48. Add the fact that the return trip is much more uphill and I get 35-38 MPG, and my average can be anywhere from 40-46 MPG every day! It's all on what you have to drive and how you drive it.

[mokee]

I am noticing the Toyota & Lexus Hybrids always make the EPA numbers.

 

EPA estimates for the Prius are 50 mpg combined. http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/overall-high.htm

 

Fuelly shows a bell shaped curve with Prius owners effectively getting between 37 and 58 mpg. http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

 

I imagine the folks getting 58 mpg are pretty happy...those getting 37 mpg not so much. Personally, if I had your experience with your VW Jetta TDI, I'd buy another one. If I wanted a hybrid, I'd take a look at the VW Jetta Hybrid. It's supposed to get 45 mpg combined according to the EPA.

[aaronj1159]

 

 

I imagine the folks getting 58 mpg are pretty happy...those getting 37 mpg not so much. Personally, if I had your experience with your VW Jetta TDI, I'd buy another one. If I wanted a hybrid, I'd take a look at the VW Jetta Hybrid. It's supposed to get 45 mpg combined according to the EPA.

As others have said elsewhere on this site, the Jetta isn't quite living up to 45 MPG either, in a lot of instances. Add it to the fact that you need to use premium fuel, and it's a smaller car, and that makes it less attractive to me.

 

As a former VERY happy VW Jetta (regular ole ICE) owner, I too considered Jetta hybrids and Jetta/Passat TDIs when I was shopping around. Nothing quite met what I wanted in fuel economy, styling, size, and price. It's a matter of preference. TDI would have suited my required driving better, but diesel prices and the improved highway performance of hybrids drove me away.

[lolder]

The temperature effect on Ford hybrids is about +0.2 mpg per º F. The mileage difference between 30 and 90 º F. will be 12 mpg. The EPA numbers are calculated at about 60-70 º F.

[tombarker13ffh]

Just drive the car. You can read a million other stories about mpg but if you can't or won't drive the car in a way that gets 40 mpg, then the car is probably not for you. If you can drive the way you'll normally drive and you're happy with the fuel economy, then its certainly a car to consider.

[djminfll]

I think I posted this previously, but while I was waiting for the delays on delivery of my FFH, I almost purchased a VW Passat Diesel. The factors that made me decide against it were:

• Diesel fuel is more expensive that regular gasoline.
• VW does not offer the safety options like Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Warning, etc.
• VW quality history is too spotty for me. Everyone that I know who has a VW has either said it was the most reliable car they ever owned, or the must unreliable car they ever owned. I knew one person who was keeping detailed records of her problems, and told me, "I am just waiting for the next issue, then I'm eligible for a Lemon-law exchange."

I actually posted earlier today that I got my very worst fill-up ever today (33.8mpg), but my overall mpg for the 3100 miles that I've had the car is 42.3. However, my high was 46.4mpg, and 50% of my fill-ups have been over 43mpg.

[jgilliam1955]

Thanks everyone. Gives me something to think about.

[Fynack]

So essentially , if you can live with never coming close to the EPA estimate then the car is for you. Everyone likes to post trip numbers but there isn't a single person on this forum that has a fuelly or fueleconomy.gov number at or near the estimate.

[jeff_h]

So essentially , if you can live with never coming close to the EPA estimate then the car is for you. Everyone likes to post trip numbers but there isn't a single person on this forum that has a fuelly or fueleconomy.gov number at or near the estimate.

 

Hello? Last tank fillup was 49.5 MPG, but didn't get it filled all the way as today's fillup was ONLY 46.5 MPG. Lifetime display now shows 47.3, fuelly actual fills 45.8 and going well since winter is over... I'm afraid you were unreasonable in your expectations in the cold weather and short trips and took a bath on your car before the weather and subsequent MPG turned more favorable. I tried to point this out to you in email, offered to meet you so we could compare cars and trips to see if it really was your car, but you choose to instead berate Ford as being fraudulent blah blah blah.

 

Getting the EPA numbers is possible but needs to be under the right conditions... granted they are optimal conditions and one needs to drive the car as if he or she is trying for the best MPG -- if one doesn't want to change behavior, it's probably not a good move to buy the car. I have achieved very good MPG on just about all of my trips, and posted dozens of them here: http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/jeff_h_fusion/library/ so take a look if you like, I admit it's not easy to get the rated numbers but then again I am much closer to EPA numbers than I was in almost 130,000 miles of driving my Prius. Sorry you felt ripped off, I really wish I could have driven your car to try it out, however it was sold to someone else from that Chantilly dealer when I went there.

[DeeCee]

So essentially , if you can live with never coming close to the EPA estimate then the car is for you. Everyone likes to post trip numbers but there isn't a single person on this forum that has a fuelly or fueleconomy.gov number at or near the estimate.

I now have just over 5700 miles and have 15 fill-ups with the worst tank at 38.7 mpg (February)and my best was 47.3 mpg (April). Yes I can live with this! Sorry but I just keep my own records on a laptop spreadsheet and do not use fuelly.

[tombarker13ffh]

lol my worst trip this week was 47 mpg. Tank average was showing 52.2 until I idled it down to 50.0 in the Walmart parking lot today. This car is very capable of epa numbers in very common conditions. It'd be ridiculous to not buy this car without trying it yourself.

[acdii]

Pot of Petunias :baby:

[Da0ne]

winter was bad one this year let be real all cars did bad on mpg but now that the weather has gotten better every trip to and from work it displays 47 - 53 mpg depends on traffic and i keep my temp on auto and my last fill up was 46.2 and i still had 40 miles till empty so to me its close to the advertised 47 mpg

[hybridbear]

As some may have seen my other post, I will be buying a new car next year.

But what is scaring me away from the Ford Hybrids is the cars not meeting there EPA numbers.

As someone who drives a 11 year old VW Jetta TDI with 195K miles on it, I am use to 40 MPG. I average 40 MPG last tank full & this week decided to drive it like a Hybrid and got 56 MPG. Of course it was a lot of work.

I am noticing the Toyota & Lexus Hybrids always make the EPA numbers. My daughter loves her Lexus Hybrid.

Also a diesel always exceeds the EPA numbers with out trying. The new Passat will get 50 MPG on diesel and you do not have to baby it.

I REALLY like the Ford hybrids but am very disappoint with the numbers being in the 30's not 40's. Maybe by the next year they will address this.

 

The best thing to do is test the car out for yourself. Find a Fusion Hybrid to test drive from a dealer who will let you test drive overnight, or at least let you have a few hours with the car. It is ridiculous for dealers to think that you can drive a 1-mile loop around the dealership and get a feel for the car.

 

During that time you have the car for a test drive do some of your own testing for MPG. Drive from your house to work and see what the trip computer shows for MPG. Drive back home again and check that MPG result. If there are other places you frequently drive to take the car to those locations as well to see how it performs. Then do the same exact trips in any other cars you are considering. That way you aren't going off EPA numbers but have real world results. You may even want to do the back and forth trip twice or even three times and then average the numbers. This will help to eliminate the influence of traffic lights, etc.

 

Check out the threads below if you haven't read them already, they talk about the limitations of the EPA estimates and why it is important to not place too much confidence in those numbers. You also can't place too much confidence in the results of other people online. Everyone has different circumstances which affect our fuel economy either positively or negatively.

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/5923-how-ford-achieved-47-mpg-in-testing-and-why-you-cant-in-the-real-world/

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6332-epa-test-is-totally-unrealistic/?hl=test

 

We're currently averaging 41.9 MPG in 8500 miles of COLD winter driving in MN. We get lower mileage because most of our trips are less than 5 miles which hurt efficiency in any car. When we drive longer trips in this car we consistently get above 47 MPG. We've had half tanks that have been above 50 MPG as the temp warmed up and then we got hit with snow again which lowered our tank average. Right now it's 32 degrees and a blizzard outside which is hindering our current tank to be only around 43 MPG. Other ppl who live in Virginia like you do are seeing much higher MPG results because of the more temperate climate.

 

I hope that you make a wise decision and that you don't allow the comments here to make your decision for you. Take all of our comments with a grain of salt because we are not in your shoes. Our experiences, positive and negative, can be of benefit to you, but really the best way is for you to test drive an FFH on your commute and see how the results are.

[acdii]

Hows, that latest 8" of snow doing up there? This has been some crazy weather. I have fun times to look forward to this weekend. Pumping out the basement, replacing a pump or two. fun fun fun. You got the snow, we got the rain, I dont know which I would rather have, probably the snow as the melt runoff can be better controlled.

[Harbor]

I live in the NorthEast and got my '13 FFH in March. Temps in the low 30s. Initially I was only getting 35-37 MPG despite my best efforts. Initially I was angry.

 

Since the weather has warmed up the past two weeks my trip average is now 43-50 on trips of 22 miles to work, which is relatively flat. If I use back roads (rural) I'm closer to 50 but it does require discipline. People who think they can just drive this car and get 47 mpg will be disappointed. You have to Pulse and glide.. Pulse and glide.. Shut off the climate control if possible. It's a change of mindset.

 

I'm not going to lie, it's been a difficult transition going from a powerful V6 sports car to my FFH. I no longer floor the gas pedal and when on the highway it's the far right lane and 62 mph. Whatever speed it can maintain in EV mode. There's a sacrifice necessary to get higher mpg. You have to ask yourself - are you prepared to make a change in your driving habits?

 

My car's lifetime avg is now up to 40.3 and rises .1 every day or two.

 

Can anyone tell me if Fuelly and the car's dashboard estimates are in line with each other? I'd hate to post my numbers based off the Ford Dash but it's all I have right now.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Harbor

[jeff_h]

I live in the NorthEast and got my '13 FFH in March. Temps in the low 30s. Initially I was only getting 35-37 MPG despite my best efforts. Initially I was angry.

 

Since the weather has warmed up the past two seeks my trip average is now 43-50 on trips of 22 miles to work, which is relatively flat. If I use back roads (rural) I'm closer to 50 but it does require discipline. People who think they can just drive this car and get 47 mpg will be disappointed. You have to Pulse and glide.. Pulse and glide.. Shut off the climate control if possible. It's a change of mindset.

 

I'm not going to lie, it's been a difficult transition going from a powerful V6 sports car to my FFH. I no longer floor the gas pedal and when on the highway it's the far right lane and 62 mph. Whatever speed it can maintain in EV mode. There's a sacrifice necessary to get higher mpg. You have to ask yourself - are you prepared to make a change in your driving habits?

 

My car's lifetime avg is now up to 40.3 and rises .1 every day or two.

 

Can anyone tell me if Fuelly and the car's dashboard estimates are in line with each other? I'd hate to post my numbers based off the Ford Dash but it's all I have right now.

 

I think someone noted above that their fuelly (actual) and display (estimated) are right in line with each other. However mine is a bit off, I noted above that my display was 47.3 but it's now 47.5 and while fuelly says 45.8 this current tank seems to be a good one so at next fill-up that might go up to 46.0, so for my car the display has shown about 1.5 MPG optimistic when compared to the fuelly actual numbers.

[lolder]

The difference between 46.0 and 47.5 mpg in 50 miles is a little over 4 ounces. That's about 12 cents of gas or 0.24 cents per mile.

Estimates to run cars these days are 30-60 cents per mile with the average 23 mpg car costing 15 cents per mile for gas. We should keep a little perspective at these low fuel flows.

[rico567]

One realization I've had since frequenting a number of hybrid forums is that choosing a hybrid isn't necessarily inherently that much more fuel efficient than the best ICE cars....they're just much more responsive to driver input (or whatever you want to call it). They can deliver greatly improved mileage, but how the car is driven must change. A look at the EPA test cycle used to determine fuel efficiency makes it clear that this is NOT the way the majority of people are used to driving. Of course, ceteris paribus, hybrids will always shine in comparison to ICE cars insofar as the greater the percentage of urban driving, the more the regenerative system comes into play.

[hybridbear]

One realization I've had since frequenting a number of hybrid forums is that choosing a hybrid isn't necessarily inherently that much more fuel efficient than the best ICE cars....they're just much more responsive to driver input (or whatever you want to call it). They can deliver greatly improved mileage, but how the car is driven must change. A look at the EPA test cycle used to determine fuel efficiency makes it clear that this is NOT the way the majority of people are used to driving. Of course, ceteris paribus, hybrids will always shine in comparison to ICE cars insofar as the greater the percentage of urban driving, the more the regenerative system comes into play.

 

The advantage of hybrids is that the electric motor is much more efficient than the ICE. A hybrid can excel because burning gasoline to create electricity is more efficient than burning gasoline for nothing like gas only cars do. The regen braking also has a big impact. The purpose of hybrids is to make a more efficient use of the gasoline in the tank

[acdii]

Sitting at a light in heavy traffic uses ZERO fuel in the Hybrid, unless the HVAC is on.

[Fynack]

 

Hello? Last tank fillup was 49.5 MPG, but didn't get it filled all the way as today's fillup was ONLY 46.5 MPG. Lifetime display now shows 47.3, fuelly actual fills 45.8 and going well since winter is over... I'm afraid you were unreasonable in your expectations in the cold weather and short trips and took a bath on your car before the weather and subsequent MPG turned more favorable. I tried to point this out to you in email, offered to meet you so we could compare cars and trips to see if it really was your car, but you choose to instead berate Ford as being fraudulent blah blah blah.

 

Getting the EPA numbers is possible but needs to be under the right conditions... granted they are optimal conditions and one needs to drive the car as if he or she is trying for the best MPG -- if one doesn't want to change behavior, it's probably not a good move to buy the car. I have achieved very good MPG on just about all of my trips, and posted dozens of them here: http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/jeff_h_fusion/library/ so take a look if you like, I admit it's not easy to get the rated numbers but then again I am much closer to EPA numbers than I was in almost 130,000 miles of driving my Prius. Sorry you felt ripped off, I really wish I could have driven your car to try it out, however it was sold to someone else from that Chantilly dealer when I went there.

Driving habit is not an issue as I can average epa in my lexus hybrid in the winter and beat it in the spring. What bothers me is that in the Ford I get penalized for driving short distances and living in a 4 season state. Ford and the dealer knew this and should have set expectations reasonably. I bought that car for the best possible MPGs in a mid size car and I wasnt expect 47 but surely I wasnt expecting getting penalized because its cold and because im lucky to have a short commute. Had it been disclosed I would have been better off buying a another hybrid or a straight gasoline car but instead they made me spend alot of money. They provided no but instead stalled me as much as they could, its cold wait till spring ... huh? , you haven't past break-in period , your not driving correctly ... then tell me how?. A full disclosure of information like the "2mpg loss for every 10 degrees, short commutes wont allow heat up of engine" ... blah blah blah ... etc ... would have save me a lot of money. That is why I have this rage against Ford/Koons because their behavior was dishonest. Now for the car I liked it a lot and had they set my expectations right I would still be in it. I still miss many things about the car. So in the end its not car im ragging. Its more Ford and the dealer.

[MXGOLF]

I feel your pain exactly. I am in the same boat but will keep the car even though I am super disappointed in the mileage. I did join the class action lawsuit regarding this car.