Accelerating in the 2013

[corncobs]

...

Anyone else finding things anything like this when driving + or - 65 mph giving very good mpg's?

Yes absolutely before the PCM update the MPG was pretty good. Now have you had the PCM update done yet? If not it would be very interesting to see you comparison with the new software that allows for EV up to 85 MPH.

 

I think I'm getting better FE since the upgrade but I have a roadtrip coming up and will know for sure by then.

[keithsm2]

Was just thinking about accelerating in the FFH on the way back to work today... I wonder if some of the High MPG guys would chime in on how they accelerate.....I try to keep it at or below the 2KW line. and what about the poor mileage people...how are they accelerating??

[corncobs]

Not sure if I'm considered a high mileage guy but I think I'm doing pretty well.

 

I always try to do accelerate so that I have the charging arrow go up. Sometimes if I get of to a "quick start" and I see the arrow go down I just ease the throttle a bit for it to charge and it doesn't take much to reverse direction.

I have a feeling that this approach has become a bit easier since the PCM update and I can keep it around the 2kW mark very well even slightly above.

[rjent]

My short trip (under 3 miles) has dramatically risen. I went to the post office this morning 1.5 miles and got 75. The return trip was 42, so I averaged 58 for the round trip. I have never seen that kind of mileage before, we have done that twice (since I have gone to the PO twice) since the update, it used to make about 43 or so consistantly.

 

The highway mileage, I know we got at least 4 MPG more on the 150 mile trip from Albuquerque. Time will tell on whether these are flukes for not, but I am convinced of a very positive improvement.

 

I am going to try the 68 MPH trip on our next Interstate trip. I will report back! :)

[hybridbear]

Was just thinking about accelerating in the FFH on the way back to work today... I wonder if some of the High MPG guys would chime in on how they accelerate.....I try to keep it at or below the 2KW line. and what about the poor mileage people...how are they accelerating??

See this post for my comments on accelerating to consistently get 60+ MPG in the city.

 

Not sure if I'm considered a high mileage guy but I think I'm doing pretty well.

 

I always try to do accelerate so that I have the charging arrow go up. Sometimes if I get of to a "quick start" and I see the arrow go down I just ease the throttle a bit for it to charge and it doesn't take much to reverse direction.

I have a feeling that this approach has become a bit easier since the PCM update and I can keep it around the 2kW mark very well even slightly above.

I agree 100% with corncobs. Accelerating in a way that the battery shows the up arrow is important. I've noticed since the PCM update that the car seems to show the down arrow of discharging while accelerating far too often for my liking.

[corncobs]

I agree 100% with corncobs. Accelerating in a way that the battery shows the up arrow is important. I've noticed since the PCM update that the car seems to show the down arrow of discharging while accelerating far too often for my liking.

Interesting you saying that because I just feel the opposite maybe the PCM figures out over time what's best for the individual driving style.

I can pretty go right up to the 2kW line and slightly above and my HVB is always charging.

[lolder]

Not sure if I'm considered a high mileage guy but I think I'm doing pretty well.

 

I always try to do accelerate so that I have the charging arrow go up. Sometimes if I get of to a "quick start" and I see the arrow go down I just ease the throttle a bit for it to charge and it doesn't take much to reverse direction.

I have a feeling that this approach has become a bit easier since the PCM update and I can keep it around the 2kW mark very well even slightly above.

Actually, if you avoid any arrows, you will do better. Anytime you have arrows you are experiencing the high EV cycle losses. Accelerate to avoid the arrows. Decelerate with slight pedal pressure to avoid them also.

[corncobs]

Actually, if you avoid any arrows, you will do better. Anytime you have arrows you are experiencing the high EV cycle losses. Accelerate to avoid the arrows. Decelerate with slight pedal pressure to avoid them also.

Interesting idea but isn't the arrow up an indication that the HVB is charging? Why would you wanna coast to a stop while slightly applying throttle pressure ? I mean I understand the losses but do you still charge the HVB?

 

Sorry a lot of questions but now I wanna understand this better.

[lolder]

Interesting idea but isn't the arrow up an indication that the HVB is charging? Why would you wanna coast to a stop while slightly applying throttle pressure ? I mean I understand the losses but do you still charge the HVB?

 

Sorry a lot of questions but now I wanna understand this better.

When you are braking, you want energy to go into the HVB. That's the only time you should PREFER for it to do so. While you're coasting, the built-in regen drag to simulate old automatic transmission cars is a wasteful use of the EV cycle. If you did true P & G in a FFH by modulating the pedal so there are no HVB arrows, you will get phenominal mileage. It is hard to do, distracting and not worth the effort but it demonstrates the losses in the EV cycle. A few years ago I did some tests around my small town with my 2010 FFH. At a steady 30 mph, CC on and the EV cycling at about a 50% rate, my mpg is about 55. P & G-ing between 25 and 35 mph keeping the arrows out of sight during acceleration and coasting yielded 74 mpg! A Ford engineer remarked that first Gen. NiMH FFH's EV cycle had a 30% loss. Maybe the LiIon are less but they're still probably 20%.

That being said, energy, by necessity, goes into and out of the HVB all the time for smooth operation, just don't encourage it. Steady pedal pressure is the secret. The system then runs the ICE with the least EV action. By contrast, the loss through the eCVT with the ICE on is probably less than 5%.

[alpha754293]

Was just thinking about accelerating in the FFH on the way back to work today... I wonder if some of the High MPG guys would chime in on how they accelerate.....I try to keep it at or below the 2KW line. and what about the poor mileage people...how are they accelerating??

 

How can you tell that you're at the 2 kW line? That seems awfully low for an engine that makes 141 hp (105 kW) and an electric motor that's 117 hp (88 kW) electric motor, with a combined peak power of 140 kW.

 

I know that on a hot summer day, with the A/C cranked up all the way, it's pushing close to 5 kW.

[keithsm2]

 

How can you tell that you're at the 2 kW line? That seems awfully low for an engine that makes 141 hp (105 kW) and an electric motor that's 117 hp (88 kW) electric motor, with a combined peak power of 140 kW.

 

I know that on a hot summer day, with the A/C cranked up all the way, it's pushing close to 5 kW.

I was refering to the division on the MY screen display. i think there are 5 or 6 division markers..... I usually accelerate up to about the 2nd division..... ( although i thought i did see a kW up in the corner....) I dont know much about KW and converting back to HP... so please forgive me.

[alpha754293]

I was refering to the division on the MY screen display. i think there are 5 or 6 division markers..... I usually accelerate up to about the 2nd division..... ( although i thought i did see a kW up in the corner....) I dont know much about KW and converting back to HP... so please forgive me.

 

Yeah, I interpret the screen that you are talking about as being more like 40% power as opposed to it being 2 kW. And kW is probably shorter to include in there than the full word: "power".

 

But yeah, that's where I try to stay as well, except for when I get on the highway, then I try to keep it around 50% power.

[hybridbear]

Actually, if you avoid any arrows, you will do better. Anytime you have arrows you are experiencing the high EV cycle losses. Accelerate to avoid the arrows. Decelerate with slight pedal pressure to avoid them also.

Are you able to do this successfully in your 2010 FFH? I've tried in the 2013 and it is basically impossible from what I can tell.

 

And, just because there are no arrows that doesn't mean that the ICE isn't being used as a generator and experiencing EV cycle losses. Doesn't a lack of arrows just mean that the current flowing into the HVB is exactly equal to the current flowing out of it to recharge the 12V battery which is running the electronics? Wouldn't that mean that a state of 0 charge losses is actually while the HVB shows discharging? Or am I overthinking things? I wonder if this could be definitively answered with a ScanGauge.

[acdii]

Are you able to do this successfully in your 2010 FFH? I've tried in the 2013 and it is basically impossible from what I can tell.

 

And, just because there are no arrows that doesn't mean that the ICE isn't being used as a generator and experiencing EV cycle losses. Doesn't a lack of arrows just mean that the current flowing into the HVB is exactly equal to the current flowing out of it to recharge the 12V battery which is running the electronics? Wouldn't that mean that a state of 0 charge losses is actually while the HVB shows discharging? Or am I overthinking things? I wonder if this could be definitively answered with a ScanGauge.

when no arrow, its exactly that, no flow out, no flow in, the energy from the generator is producing just enough to power everything. It is very difficult to maintain no arrows, but I did do it this morning and it was over 40 MPG. However the 13 FFH it a lot more sensitive than the 10 was

 

Difference being that in the 10, the computer holds the battery level at 50%(according to the dash readout), and is limited to 45 MPH EV. Anything over that is pure ICE with EV assist. Once the battery is at its storage point, its all ICE to the wheels, very little is needed for the accessories, so its a lot easier to maintain speed with no arrows. The only time this isnt true is when the car goes into its battery conditioning cycle where all power comes from ICE and it fully charges the pack and peaks it. You would think though that this would affect MPG, but some of my best trips happened during this because when it was done I had twice the HVB than normal.

 

Since the 13 uses Lion batteries, I dont think it conditions like this, since the technology between packs is totally different, and peak charging a Lion is a bad thing. Great for a Nimh, but BAD for Lion.

[dalesky]

I decided to have some fun yesterday and drive live a crazy Houstonian (which is only slightly more erratic than a standard Houstonian). By the time I made it home after a LOT of hard acceleration and braking, the car had a completely full SOC but would not kick into EV or EV+. The slightest pedal pressure would send it out of coasting mode and straight into ICE mode. Still got 33 mpgs btw, muahaha. I took the dog to the park about 20 minutes later (which is where I can get some good mpgs, 50+ normally on a 5 mile trip) but again the car would not go into EV mode. I had ECO cruise set at 38 mph and the SOC kept climbing and climbing even thought it looked maxed out, I thought the pack was about to explode. On a bright note, I was getting just over 60 mpg with the ICE alone at 35 mph while the battery was charging and nearing its full capacity.

 

Finally when leaving the park, it ran normal again, but it seems like the car learns your immediate driving style and matches engine operation to that. So if you're a heavy accelerator, it would take some time to get it to run normal (what I consider normal) again.

 

So I think hybridbear experienced this when he was on his road trip coming off of a high speed highway and saw his RPMs were higher than normal. I think this is the engine prediction your immediate driving style.

My Mustang GT does learn driving style, and will definitely change some parameters if it is driven hard (acceleration) 3 times in a row. It is documented in the manual. Course, when I used a tuner and put in a cold air kit none of that matters much now. But, not surprising that the FFH may do some learning also. Don't know if that is documented anywhere, but your experience makes me wonder.

[majorleeslow]

I have a very hard time accelerating just in ev mode from stop. Even if batt is decently charged, for the fear that I'll get rear ended by somebody from one stoplight behind. LOL.

 

Does anyone have the 0 to 30, 45, 60( and 85 for new PCM update) times just using EV mode?

Please share if you do. I do not have the roads around me that allow me too do that. Thanks

[acdii]

You dont want to do that, It would take a very long time to get up past 30 MPH on EV alone. I find just getting 15-20 MPH before ICE kicks on is efficient enough.

[Eddie Sessum]

If your riding at night and not many people on the road you can get up there in ev. But depending on distance to next stop and all. On average im noticing letting the gas engine come on even if at 1.5ish lines you end up with 1 or 2 more MPG because it keeps your battery from going down too low and having to come on anyways.

[lolder]

I have a very hard time accelerating just in ev mode from stop. Even if batt is decently charged, for the fear that I'll get rear ended by somebody from one stoplight behind. LOL.

 

Does anyone have the 0 to 30, 45, 60( and 85 for new PCM update) times just using EV mode?

Please share if you do. I do not have the roads around me that allow me too do that. Thanks

The system wants you to use the ICE for most acceleration. It is inefficient to use EV when significant power is required as in acceleration and higher cruise speeds.

[hybridbear]

I have a very hard time accelerating just in ev mode from stop. Even if batt is decently charged, for the fear that I'll get rear ended by somebody from one stoplight behind. LOL.

 

Does anyone have the 0 to 30, 45, 60( and 85 for new PCM update) times just using EV mode?

Please share if you do. I do not have the roads around me that allow me too do that. Thanks

 

The system wants you to use the ICE for most acceleration. It is inefficient to use EV when significant power is required as in acceleration and higher cruise speeds.

Exactly what lolder says. The Electric Motor is most efficient at low power demands since it has maximum torque and horsepower at low RPMs. The ICE is most efficient at higher load levels and higher RPMs because an ICE reaches its peak torque and horsepower at higher RPMs. I've found that if my power demand exceeds the first bar on the Empower screen I try to press the accelerator down harder to get the ICE to come on. If my power demand drops below 1 bar and the ICE is still on I "feather" the pedal to get the ICE to shut off. I think it's little things like this that allow me to get 60 MPG average around the city...if only I drove 100% of the miles in our FFH I could have a tank over 60 MPG.

[alpha754293]

My former department manager actually suggested that I stay in the blue line as much as possible to get the higher fuel economy. But from what I've seen - the system is pretty smart by itself. It'll do what it needs to do in order to work efficiently. My best advice, and what I've found is drive as consistently as you possibly can.

 

And like I have said before, in Southeast Michigan, trying to stay in the blue WILL get you rear-ended; so it's VERY unsafe to do so.

 

I usually try to stay at 40% power when I am accelerating in the city (max.) and max. 50% power on the highway. It's actually better for me to drive a little slower so that I can catch all the green lights than it is to drive a little faster (using cruise control of course, even in the city) and end up JUST hitting the tail end of the red light.

 

There are a lot of things that you can do, but the system is pretty smart. And having the ICE fire up is NOT necessarily a bad thing. Just drive normally, steady, and consistently.

[tr7driver]

My Mustang GT does learn driving style, and will definitely change some parameters if it is driven hard (acceleration) 3 times in a row. It is documented in the manual. Course, when I used a tuner and put in a cold air kit none of that matters much now. But, not surprising that the FFH may do some learning also. Don't know if that is documented anywhere, but your experience makes me wonder.

I find I have to re-tune my Mustang GT about twice a year, as it continues to learn after the tune and changes the parameters on me.

[majorleeslow]

Boy since I got this car I've started to dread stop lights. as most of the time I'm in EV mode when I hit them and stopping and accelerating from them turns the ICE on.

[corncobs]

Stopping turns on the ICE? That seems odd except if you SOC is 100% and can't take anymore charge.

[majorleeslow]

I meant starting from stop light turns the ICE on. My bad.