Yes .......more issues with my FFH

[oldschool1962]

I don't even know where to begin explaining what happened tonight.......

I guess first thing would be to say that there is no way in the world I am making this stuff up. Plus I showed our sales person one of the things that was happening just after things went crazy and the DW and DD were in the car the whole time watching it happen.

 

Okay! First thing that happened was the drivers side BLIS light in the mirror turned on and then an error message appeared saying that BLIS unavailable. Sensor blocked. See owners manual. The light stayed lit for 10 minutes. At the same time the dash (left side) glitched and the cruise control went off. Not the light in the dash but the cruise just stopped functioning. It would not reengage either. Plus....if that was not enough at that point the whole dash reset.....mpg.........screens........graph bar while we were moving at 45mph to boot.

 

I pulled over to check and see if maybe something was blocking the rear bumper.........nothing. But then it wasn't like I was dragging a small animal, cyclist, jogger or something of the sort behind the car to block the sensor in the first place. Please note the sarcasm here and understand I WAS NOT serious about what I was dragging.......

 

Anyhow I got back in the car and drove. The BILS light in the mirror finally went off and the message now said sensor blocked and cross-traffic unavailable. See owners manual. The mpg then jumped 10 mpg in the blink of an eye. Went from 37 to 47.........while maintaining 60mph!!!!!!! The dash glitched again 2 more times and I asked the DW to please watch things so I could keep my eyes on the road.

 

Oh wait the best is yet to come and we will be providing video in a follow-up post tomorrow.

Anyhow I stopped at the dealer showed the issue to our sales person.....service was already gone for the night......... At this point the DW was still watching the dash and mentioned that she noticed as I opened the door of the car the Electric power bar located in the power screen of the third dash setting spiked as if there was a huge load draw. This bar is supposed to show all power usage of the vehicle but is different in display than the empower setting where it specifically shows ACC and not just a battery icon.

 

I got out to see if it would do it again but nothing. Then I was going to go get the sales person and as I got out the cross traffic message disappeared and everything seemed normal. I didn't get the sales person because I'd bothered him enough and it wasn't like it was going to happen again.

 

Anyhow we got on the road again and headed off to a function. On the way there......is when all hell broke loose.

 

The Avg MPG kept resetting itself to zero. about every 020-30 seconds until it stuck in the zero mark. It's also stuck in the zero mark on the Info screen of the Sync system. Next the MPG meter in the cluster started to fluctuate radically. O-60+ and back again and everything in between regardless of the pedal, brake or stopped. The MPG meter of the screen was working fine.

 

Next the power bars disappeared an began to fade in and our. They would each spike no matter what I was doing even stopped. The Regen icon lit up under full acceleration and even stopped. The the blue battery charge and discharge arrows lit simultaneously, at different times regardless of what action was actually happeneing.......wait there's more.

 

The brakes tended to go from mushy to overly sensitive and acceleration was less than responsive. The car seemed to drag or lagged in relation between pedal position and acceleration.

 

The mileage graph faded to grey and just stuck at the level it was and would not report new data. The MPG was stuck at zero still and when we stopped the car all of the regen, charge, power....both battery and gas as well as the mpg meter would operate. In bold normal appearance or faded overlay or back ground and simultaneously also. It was like a friggen three ring circus in the cluster.

 

Then the dash would return to normal only to begin the same malfunction all over again 20-30 seconds later. When I turned the car off the dash was still operating. Fully lit in all it's glory reporting telemetry just as if the car was moving down the road......but all at the same time!!!!!!! It wouldn't turn off. 3 minutes I sat there and finally.....it turned off. Then I couldn't get the car to lock or the Head light to turn off with the remote.

 

Went in to our party for an hour and a half and the car was really no different than when we went in. Only this time the info screen in the HEV setting started to malfunction. The drive-train picture started to turn off and on while the car was moving.....not just the motor and wheels section but the whole thing. The battery would also disappear and re appear sporadicly.

 

The car is now parked until tomorrow when we can shoot video of this. We took some pics and video with the camera in the DW's phone but they're hard to make out. Gonna use the digital tomorrow for clarity sake.

 

I certainly hope some folks at Ford are trawling or participate here......... Maybe now someone will take me seriously when I say there are problems with my car and the Dealership also says it.

Monday will be the key for the new stuff.

 

I'm not sure...........with all this new stuff and what has been going on with the Ford Engineers......what I want to happen. 3 Days ago I would'a said replace the vehicle but now??????????? Getting a full refund is starting to sound like the best thing. I know the Lemon Lawyers are gonna love this one.

 

Well gotta send emails to the rest of the gang.

 

Thanks to anyone .....if anyone at all...........that held back a reply without using a quote until I had a chance to edit and finish the post.

Edited February 21, 2010 by oldschool1962

[Blue Oval]

Hey there Oldschool1962... please take a deep breath and calm down. The next best advice I can give you is to drop your car off at your dealer's service dept. ASAP. I'm not a technician but I've read enough about this car to strongly suspect your problems stem from a defective "smart junction box". It is your Fusion's primary computer brain and its purpose is to make sure all of the vehicle's electronics work as intended in harmony. From your description, it sounds like the smart junction box is malfunctioning. Once the technician confirms this, all he has to do is switch out the SMJ box with a new one. I would feel frustrated too if it happened to mine but unfortunately these things do happen in today's computer dependent world we live in. The good news is that, thankfully, everything is covered under warranty! Good luck to you and please make sure you write back and let us know how you made out.

[oldschool1962]

Well Blue Oval......believe it or not.........I have to say I'm actually fairly relaxed.

 

It's actually kinda funny....in a twisted sort of way knowing this car cost twice what my folks paid for their first house............all of the crap that keeps happening and the lack of support that Ford, associated Engineer's and supposed Hybrid industry guru's have given the dealership as well as me.

 

It's this whole head in the sand not until somethings happens to 50,000 cars and then have to to a world wide recall because we're a bunch of.............................

 

I've said all along it was computer related and what you mention I believe to only be the tip of the issue. That's taking into consideration the sound system has failed, the brake system has issues, the DSP has failed, and all the other sensors have gone berserk. I have to ask if it could have been one simple module swap and with all I have been bringing to Ford for the last 4-1/2 months....then why didn't they just replace that in the first place?

 

 

There were a couple other things I noticed this morning when we shot the videos.......there was a faint image in the LCD dash screens that remained after the car finally turned off the systems and the door was opened. By the way it took 90 seconds for the IC to go blank but then no data appeared on the screen as usual.

 

Anyhow it looked like an old CRT with image burn but it actually went away after the car sat for 3 minutes.

 

The car also shut off while driving. It just shut down. All systems remained up and ill-functioning but the car just died. I also had power to the steering but I figured this was a safety feature so it could be pulled over. It only died once and we drove it for about 20 minutes afterward.

 

I am trying to add the first of three AVI links but am having trouble. I will try something else but we have another swim meet today. This time we're taking the Prius. Funny....even with the over active ABS in that car I feel safer driving it.

[oldschool1962]

Well Blue Oval......believe it or not.........I have to say I'm actually fairly relaxed.

 

It's actually kinda funny....in a twisted sort of way knowing this car cost twice what my folks paid for their first house............all of the crap that keeps happening and the lack of support that Ford, associated Engineer's and supposed Hybrid industry guru's have given the dealership as well as me.

 

It's this whole head in the sand not until somethings happens to 50,000 cars and then have to to a world wide recall because we're a bunch of.............................

 

I've said all along it was computer related and what you mention I believe to only be the tip of the issue. That's taking into consideration the sound system has failed, the brake system has issues, the DSP has failed, and all the other sensors have gone berserk. I have to ask if it could have been one simple module swap and with all I have been bringing to Ford for the last 4-1/2 months....then why didn't they just replace that in the first place?

 

 

There were a couple other things I noticed this morning when we shot the videos.......there was a faint image in the LCD dash screens that remained after the car finally turned off the systems and the door was opened. By the way it took 90 seconds for the IC to go blank but then no data appeared on the screen as usual.

 

Anyhow it looked like an old CRT with image burn but it actually went away after the car sat for 3 minutes.

 

The car also shut off while driving. It just shut down. All systems remained up and ill-functioning but the car just died. I also had power to the steering but I figured this was a safety feature so it could be pulled over. It only died once and we drove it for about 20 minutes afterward.

 

I am trying to add the first of three AVI links but am having trouble. I will try something else but we have another swim meet today. This time we're taking the Prius. Funny....even with the over active ABS in that car I feel safer driving it.

[dogo88]

Well Blue Oval......believe it or not.........I have to say I'm actually fairly relaxed.

 

It's actually kinda funny....in a twisted sort of way knowing this car cost twice what my folks paid for their first house............all of the crap that keeps happening and the lack of support that Ford, associated Engineer's and supposed Hybrid industry guru's have given the dealership as well as me.

 

It's this whole head in the sand not until somethings happens to 50,000 cars and then have to to a world wide recall because we're a bunch of.............................

 

I've said all along it was computer related and what you mention I believe to only be the tip of the issue. That's taking into consideration the sound system has failed, the brake system has issues, the DSP has failed, and all the other sensors have gone berserk. I have to ask if it could have been one simple module swap and with all I have been bringing to Ford for the last 4-1/2 months....then why didn't they just replace that in the first place?

 

 

There were a couple other things I noticed this morning when we shot the videos.......there was a faint image in the LCD dash screens that remained after the car finally turned off the systems and the door was opened. By the way it took 90 seconds for the IC to go blank but then no data appeared on the screen as usual.

 

Anyhow it looked like an old CRT with image burn but it actually went away after the car sat for 3 minutes.

 

The car also shut off while driving. It just shut down. All systems remained up and ill-functioning but the car just died. I also had power to the steering but I figured this was a safety feature so it could be pulled over. It only died once and we drove it for about 20 minutes afterward.

 

I am trying to add the first of three AVI links but am having trouble. I will try something else but we have another swim meet today. This time we're taking the Prius. Funny....even with the over active ABS in that car I feel safer driving it.

 

While I know nothing of Va lemon laws, here in NJ if you have been to a dealer for as many times and problems you have described, the dealer and/or manufacturer would have to repurchase the vehicle. I did a bit of Googling for "car lemon laws in Va" and got quite a few hits where you could contact a lawyer for free to review your problems and see if you have a case.

 

Dan

[sullied]

Sounds to me like you're having ground problems in your main electrical system. I'm not a car electronics expert, but I do troubleshoot electronics frequently in my current job. Even though the problems are widespread, it could be a common problem. Without seeing the electrical schematics, I wouldn't know for sure. But, if there's some common point to all of the electronics that are having a problem, there could be one single pin on a computer chip that is grounded and is causing tons of bad data to flow to the computer. Sometimes the most complicated problems has the simplest solutions...something I've experienced multiple times.

[Blue Oval]

When I read your initial story I had no idea that you had already addressed your complaints with your dealer's service department. That being the case, I would have to hope that they already checked and ruled out a defective computer module as being the culprit so I stand corrected in what I thought might have been the cause behind all of your electrical problems.

 

You say you've been struggling with Ford for 4 1/2 months? What a nightmare! You certainly have a lot more patience than I do. By now I would have driven it into their showroom through the largest plate glass window they have, blamed it on the faulty brakes and then thrown the keys at the owner!

 

A more rational suggestion is this one: NJ has a lemon law which gives the manufacturer three (3) chances to repair the car to your full satisfaction. After that you can begin action against them under the lemon laws of the state. It takes a little while but eventually they are ordered to buy the vehicle back with full restitution to you. Dan gives excellent advice...contact a lawyer who specializes in Virginia lemon law litigation. Bring him all your paperwork and let him get started in getting that demon possessed vehicle out of your life.

[rfruth]

I agree, there must be a bad ground or cold solder joint causing these bizarre problems, 1 st step in Lemon law claim is to fire off note to corporate in your states format (examples on the net or pay an attorney) to Ford Motor Co. Customer Relations P.O. Box 6248 Dearborn, MI 48121 800-232-5952 then you will (should use) an attorney - good luck !

[bbf2530]

Hi folks. :D Just as an FYI: The first step anyone takes should be to read the Ford Vehicle Warranty Guide which everyone was given when we purchased our vehicles new. It contains some very important information.

 

If you can not find your copy, you can download a PDF version here: LINK: Ford Owner Guides Insert your vehicle information into the drop down boxes and click "Submit". Then click on "Warranty Guide".

 

You will find a wealth of information concerning Warranty rights, what Ford is required to do and what we are required to do as owners. You will also find information concerning the BBB AutoLine Arbitration Program. It is a free program administered by the Better Business Bureau to help resolve service and vehicle issues. And in some states, filing a BBB AutoLine complaint is required before a vehicle owner can proceed with legal action anyway. This is all explained in the Warranty Guide. It is only about 40 pages long, so it is a quick read.

 

The BBB program is a win-win for the vehicle owner, as the BBB's decisions are non-binding on us, but binding on the automaker. In other words, if it decides in your favor, the automaker must follow through with the BBB ruling. And if it decides in the automakers favor, we can still follow through with Lemon Law or other legal action. And either way, whether through the BBB AutoLine Arbitration Program, Lemon Law or court, the expense of retaining a Lawyer is not necessary if a person can read, write and speak in an intelligent manner (my personal opinion of course). However, if retaining a lawyer will make someone more comfortable, then go ahead and do so.

 

And we can not expect a Dealership to explain this information to us. Once the Warranty Guide is handed to us at purchase time, we are on our own. Thinking about it logically, a good Dealer addresses our problems/issues/complaints and we don't need the BBB AutoLine Program or the Lemon Law. And a bad Dealer just hopes we will go away, so of course they will not tell us how to pursue other remedies such as The AutoLine Program or Lemon Laws.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited February 21, 2010 by bbf2530

[Fuze-ion]

It does sound like you have had a real bad experience. Hopefully the Dealership can find the culprit with these issues. I know sometimes it does take several attempts to find a problem. It doesn't make us feel any better as owners.

My wife had problems in 2002 with a Pontiac Montana. Our issues were not a problemm to diagnose, they were obvious and we couldn't drive the vehicle, it had to be towed to the Dealership. Our problems began right after the 36,000 mile warranty ended. After the warranty ended, we spent over $7,000 dollars during the third year of ownership. Two blown Head Gaskets and a re-built transmision, this was all at around 40,000 miles. All the dealer coud say was it was rare, they had smiliar vehicles tihe 150,000 miles and not the first problem. The second Blown Head Gasket happened 300 miles from home and on a holiday weekend, so we had to have the vehicle towed and wait two days for that Dealership to open and tell us it would take about three days to fix. We rented another car and came home,a nd went baqck two weels later and picked-up the vehicle.

Hopefully they find an easy solution.

[Oman]

Electrical problems are a real pain. It sounds like a bad harness. The dealer will likely need to tap the data bus and watch the traffic. The LCD Displays on the dash reflections of the data moving around the car, they don't control it. If you remove the crazy dash display you have a few basic problems that are also likely caused by the same bad harness causing communication errors.

 

Jon

 

PS: After reading your earlier posts I'm actually glad you are having a "big" problem, as they are easier to prove and diagnose. My guess is that all your issues are being caused by a single problem somewhere in the system.

 

 

 

It does sound like you have had a real bad experience. Hopefully the Dealership can find the culprit with these issues. I know sometimes it does take several attempts to find a problem. It doesn't make us feel any better as owners.

My wife had problems in 2002 with a Pontiac Montana. Our issues were not a problemm to diagnose, they were obvious and we couldn't drive the vehicle, it had to be towed to the Dealership. Our problems began right after the 36,000 mile warranty ended. After the warranty ended, we spent over $7,000 dollars during the third year of ownership. Two blown Head Gaskets and a re-built transmision, this was all at around 40,000 miles. All the dealer coud say was it was rare, they had smiliar vehicles tihe 150,000 miles and not the first problem. The second Blown Head Gasket happened 300 miles from home and on a holiday weekend, so we had to have the vehicle towed and wait two days for that Dealership to open and tell us it would take about three days to fix. We rented another car and came home,a nd went baqck two weels later and picked-up the vehicle.

Hopefully they find an easy solution.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Oman

[lordyourjosh]

I'm not sure if other states are different, but I know around here "lemon law" is not as easy to use as you might think. It generally requires the same failure 3 times, and it has to be a major issue. By saying that, I mean the radio issue wouldn't count (though they still need to fix it). I, of course, would count your dash issues as a major problem that make operating the vehicle unsafe. I agree with the other assessments that it's all likely linked to the same problem - bad ground, bad harness, bad computer chip, etc. Hopefully they can sort it out for you now that you have much more obvious problems.

[oldschool1962]

Wow thanks for all the rallying support for things. I guess I should say that the Lemon stuff is in the works.

 

As far as this issue and how Ford will proceed.....it all depends on what they will accept. The dealership only knows about what has happened prior to yesterday. I guess in some of my frustration with Ford that was not made clear.

 

I did make a service appt for tomorrow. I will bring the vehicle in and we'll see what happens from there.

 

If things do go as they have from the beginning............At that time the dealership is going to have to make a call and say what is for the greater good of the situation. Personally I don't know how all this could not throw a code but we'll find out tomorrow I guess. My skepticism is from everything to this point and not a code.....or so I have been toldnot a code has been seen.

 

Anyhow....back to some of the issues..........It's funny how when you drive back over the same route the next day and even though I was driving a different vehicle.......the things that pop back in your head. Basically when things start to go wrong, you're so focused on the road and then the things that you forget some things. My point is that as we passed points again today I remembered some other things.

 

The passenger side airbag off light actually came on and off for several miles. Trouble is my DW was sitting in the seat and I don't know what would have happened if something.....like a distraction for the issues.....would have caused us to need it and whether it would be available.

 

Also........The cruise control also was off but the car was maintaining speed quite well with my foot off the accelerator. And by off I mean I turned it off at this point since it wouldn't respond in the first place.

 

On the whole and with all fairness I have to give the Service Manager and the whole team at Haley Ford a chance to follow thru on the things they have been telling me. I'm sure Ill have more to add but as of tomorrow they will have my car. For how long and to do what is a big mystery.

 

Edit........

I was able to finally retrieve my VHR and it states there is absolutely nothing wrong ith my vehicle. I did run it this morning when the vehicle was experiencing all of it's issues. This tells me that no codes were thrown by the system. So I guess I'll add that to the list of things for tomorrow.

Edited February 23, 2010 by oldschool1962

[oldschool1962]

Okay....so I have I see contacting Ford Customer care is an option and probably a requirement here. How do I handle the issue if it's not the Dealership causing the issue. As I've said they recognize the issues in the past and with what is happening now they will certainly be able to recognize them currently......an email, letter or call to Ford CC is only gonna shed a bad light on them. It's the whole sh!t and hill theory.

 

Anyhow if they leave me hanging then I have justification.

 

For the record though.........I will have just so much sympathy or patience with all of the parties involved....including. They sold me a vehicle and regardless of who or whom steps up........we continue to make payments and follow thru honorably with our end of the bargain. The only thing Ford has allowed the dealership to do was fix radio issues.....and I don't think they had that fully approved. I know for certain they have had to eat 3 of my RO's because the tech line determined there was no issue and FMC has yet to follow thru on any of the other of the major issues.

 

To either of them.....FMC or Haley Auto South......... the loss of any revenue from this vehicle in either a buy-back or swap is a write-off whereas to us it's a financial hardship. As I said we've made payments, we've maintained the vehicle and even though we have driven it........with what has gone on and as many trips as I have made to see them.....They have not been enjoyable, trouble free or uncumbersome miles.

 

Another thing to consider is we were very proactive regarding the purchase. If this drags on and we find ourselves in a situation where I can't replace the vehicle due to gas price spike and demand for hybrids in general......we're screwed. I can't ever see getting in a bidding war with another consumer and paying so many thousands over sticker.....mainly because we don't have it. It was a stretch to buy what we did this year and some of the tax breaks only softened the impact of things.......but they didn't cut things enough for us to be considered living on "Easy Street". Like many out there we're just holding on and the rope is running out of room for knots. The hybrids were intended to help but if I'm not driving it and it's not running correctly then I'm not saving anything.....only spending more

Edited February 22, 2010 by oldschool1962

[wwoody723]

Okay....so I have I see contacting Ford Customer care is an option and probably a requirement here. How do I handle the issue if it's not the Dealership causing the issue. As I've said they recognize the issues in the past and with what is happening now they will certainly be able to recognize them currently......an email, letter or call to Ford CC is only gonna shed a bad light on them. It's the whole sh!t and hill theory.

 

Anyhow if they leave me hanging then I have justification.

 

For the record though.........I will have just so much sympathy or patience with all of the parties involved....including. They sold me a vehicle and regardless of who or whom steps up........we continue to make payments and follow thru honorably with our end of the bargain. The only thing Ford has allowed the dealership to do was fix radio issues.....and I don't think they had that fully approved. I know for certain they have had to eat 3 of my RO's because the tech line determined there was no issue and FMC has yet to follow thru on any of the other of the major issues.

 

To either of them.....FMC or Haley Auto South......... the loss of any revenue from this vehicle in either a buy-back or swap is a write-off whereas to us it's a financial hardship. As I said we've made payments, we've maintained the vehicle and even though we have driven it........with what has gone on and as many trips as I have made to see them.....They have not been enjoyable, trouble free or uncumbersome miles.

 

Another thing to consider is we were very proactive regarding the purchase. If this drags on and we find ourselves in a situation where I can't replace the vehicle due to gas price spike and demand for hybrids in general......we're screwed. I can't ever see getting in a bidding war with another consumer and paying so many thousands over sticker.....mainly because we don't have it. It was a stretch to buy what we did this year and some of the tax breaks only softened the impact of things.......but they didn't cut things enough for us to be considered living on "Easy Street". Like many out there we're just holding on and the rope is running out of room for knots. The hybrids were intended to help but if I'm not driving it and it's not running correctly then I'm not saving anything.....only spending more

 

Maybe Ford will trade you out for a LTD with a 8-track. It would ride like the cars you use to own and no more computer problems.

[lordyourjosh]

Maybe Ford will trade you out for a LTD with a 8-track. It would ride like the cars you use to own and no more computer problems.

 

:hysterical:

 

Right now my dealer has my Ranger (fixing a shifter rattle before I officially turn it in and it's out of my warranty), so I'm driving a car off his used lot - a 1999 Grand Marquis. Only $4500 and only 166000 miles. It still runs like a dream - I can provide the dealers number if anyone is interested! It even has an aftermarket Pioneer CD player installed!!

 

Even reading the issues one member is having, I'm still anxious to get my FFH - should be here in a week, and hopefully no more than two, as it was built a week and a half ago...

[seamusbleu]

Sounds to me like you're having ground problems in your main electrical system. I'm not a car electronics expert, but I do troubleshoot electronics frequently in my current job. Even though the problems are widespread, it could be a common problem. Without seeing the electrical schematics, I wouldn't know for sure. But, if there's some common point to all of the electronics that are having a problem, there could be one single pin on a computer chip that is grounded and is causing tons of bad data to flow to the computer. Sometimes the most complicated problems has the simplest solutions...something I've experienced multiple times.

I had common thoughts, and think you are on the right track. The common "point" could be a CAN bus - probably due to a bad/loose connector or maybe some chaffed harness. As someone else said, the fact that the problem got so much worse is actually a good thing. As long as the problem is repeatable, it'll most likely be diagnosed and fixed.

 

The bad thing about electrical problems is they are hard to track down. The good thing is once it's been correctly diagnosed and fixed, it should be as good as new. If they do find some concrete problem and fix it, I doubt the lemon law will apply. Though it would be understandable if you gave up on the car after seeing these issues.

 

Good luck.

[oldschool1962]

So.......I was on the way to the deaership this morning and the POS decded to die on me. No power, the dash went completey bank, no instruments ir speedometer pus to make matters more enjoyabe.....I was on a stretch of road with no shouder, a 55mph speed limit and an 18 wheeer hot on my tail.

 

It would be nice if they could make these cars have a safety that if the car is rolling at a certain speed....you don't need to be in Park to restart the flucking thing. uckily I was abe to get stopped without issues and the car just restarted as if nothing happened......Oh yeah......all of the issues I mentioned above just disappeared. Not a single glitch, waiver, flutter or malfunction the rest of the way to the deaership. This is some sort of a cruel joke or.....................

 

Luckily I brought video.

 

As I was talking to the Service Manager I mentioned to him that this thing will probably not throw a code. I don't know why but I did mention here that it was just because with all that has happened so far......it hasn't. Well.......it didn't throw a code for anything. Not the BLISS, the crosstraffic, the IC the car cutting off......NOTHING!!!!!!

 

So as most of you know.....No code.....no issues.

 

They have the car and I'm in some POS 2007 Taurus. It's not a car I would have purchased let alone rented (given an option) but it is wheels to get things done. Not sure how long they'll have the car at this point because it would do anything it was in the video's I showed them. Although the video did give the Tech a good starting point for questions. Problem is I think the Tech line is ducking the calls about this car. They still refuse t send anyone to look at the car or even meet with me. Guess they're affraid of what they might actually find. Seems to me they want me to file actions. Well....after the ordeal this morning and the devistating possibilites and issues that could arise should my DD and/or DW be passengers or driver......they got what they wanted. I filed a claim with the BBB last night and I am starting to get everything else together for two other actions. We'll just have to see which one plays out first.

Edited February 22, 2010 by oldschool1962

[oldschool1962]

Oh Yeah......I forgot to mention that I did confirm with the sales team about what I Or anyone else not liking their FFH would get for trade on a vehicle with the 502A package............21,000.00. That's for any car especially if it has no issues and even mine because it would just sit on the lot until they could correct the problems and then resell it as used. Still.........That's over a 10,000.00 departure from what I paid for it (14000.00 with taxes, fees and extended service plan) and the sad thing remains that it's all down hill from here.

Edited February 23, 2010 by oldschool1962

[Oman]

This is all personal preference... and I am trying to be constructive and helpful with my advice... this is what I would do if I were in the situation you have described...

 

Bring the car to the dealer as it was malfunctioning (seems you have done that). Since clearly a scrambled dash is a highly dangerous situation and the car is under the new vehicle warranty I would demand a loaner be given until the problem is resolved. If they do not want to give you a loaner I would point out that driving the vehicle would be dangerous and could put the dealership and Ford in direct liability if there was an accident if they try to send you out in the car with no other choice. I do believe that the car can be fixed and I think that from a financial point of view that is the best thing that can happen for you. The lemon law is very difficult to use, it is built this way on purpose. The law was setup to try to get both parties to resolve the problem, not work around it.

 

Jon

 

 

Okay....so I have I see contacting Ford Customer care is an option and probably a requirement here. How do I handle the issue if it's not the Dealership causing the issue. As I've said they recognize the issues in the past and with what is happening now they will certainly be able to recognize them currently......an email, letter or call to Ford CC is only gonna shed a bad light on them. It's the whole sh!t and hill theory.

 

Anyhow if they leave me hanging then I have justification.

 

For the record though.........I will have just so much sympathy or patience with all of the parties involved....including. They sold me a vehicle and regardless of who or whom steps up........we continue to make payments and follow thru honorably with our end of the bargain. The only thing Ford has allowed the dealership to do was fix radio issues.....and I don't think they had that fully approved. I know for certain they have had to eat 3 of my RO's because the tech line determined there was no issue and FMC has yet to follow thru on any of the other of the major issues.

 

To either of them.....FMC or Haley Auto South......... the loss of any revenue from this vehicle in either a buy-back or swap is a write-off whereas to us it's a financial hardship. As I said we've made payments, we've maintained the vehicle and even though we have driven it........with what has gone on and as many trips as I have made to see them.....They have not been enjoyable, trouble free or uncumbersome miles.

 

Another thing to consider is we were very proactive regarding the purchase. If this drags on and we find ourselves in a situation where I can't replace the vehicle due to gas price spike and demand for hybrids in general......we're screwed. I can't ever see getting in a bidding war with another consumer and paying so many thousands over sticker.....mainly because we don't have it. It was a stretch to buy what we did this year and some of the tax breaks only softened the impact of things.......but they didn't cut things enough for us to be considered living on "Easy Street". Like many out there we're just holding on and the rope is running out of room for knots. The hybrids were intended to help but if I'm not driving it and it's not running correctly then I'm not saving anything.....only spending more

[oldschool1962]

This is all personal preference... and I am trying to be constructive and helpful with my advice... this is what I would do if I were in the situation you have described...

 

Bring the car to the dealer as it was malfunctioning (seems you have done that). Since clearly a scrambled dash is a highly dangerous situation and the car is under the new vehicle warranty I would demand a loaner be given until the problem is resolved. If they do not want to give you a loaner I would point out that driving the vehicle would be dangerous and could put the dealership and Ford in direct liability if there was an accident if they try to send you out in the car with no other choice. I do believe that the car can be fixed and I think that from a financial point of view that is the best thing that can happen for you. The lemon law is very difficult to use, it is built this way on purpose. The law was setup to try to get both parties to resolve the problem, not work around it.

 

Jon

 

 

 

 

Hey Jon,

 

Thanks for the advice and thanks again to everyone else as well.......

 

The Service Manager himself provided me a loaner. I apologize for not clarifying that in the last post. I'm also happy to say that I have a good working relationship with the service manager. He's fired up about the whole situation and how Ford Tech support and above is reacting to and treating things. He is really committed to getting something done. I also expressed with him that we needed to get this resolved for the very reason you mentioned and he agreed fully. Our conversation was a bit more geared to the personal level and not the legal level....yet there was a clear understanding that the car was not drivable in anything but a "resolved or fully repaired" situation.

 

My only concern is how long are they going to have the car to get it to recreate the issues and show Ford exactly what is going on? Driving the 07 Taurus is not going to be near as economical as the FFH was and there are certain aspects or options in the FFH or any other car we would currently purchase that make it possible for me to operate the car easier.

 

Without going into a great deal of detail.....and I hate to use this as an excuse as I haven't but one other time in the six years since it happened.........I am permanently disabled and while I am still somewhat or partially mobile.......... certain options of the 502a (two in particular) and the van we traded in..........made it much easier and also allow me to move away from the van to the more cost effective FFH........ by the way the van had caused no additional issues or discomfort. The van was traded not because we had issues with it or it was a problem but we wanted to help improve our economic condition and the van was costing too much to operate. The options I am speaking of are not typically available in a loaner from a Ford dealer.

 

Now.......I can deal without them for a short time but not the long term. I guess....in other words.....a few days max but after that...... the car actually aggravates things to the point that I can't operate a vehicle or walk. It's hard to explain and I'm sure even harder to understand....especially with as vague as I am being but................Leather and a back-up camera in a vehicle are no longer just options for me..... The leather allows me to get in and out of the vehicle with somewhat less pain and without assistance and the camera allows me to navigate down a drive or out of a parking spot without turning my torso or neck too far........ two things I am unable to do without complications or serious pain.....Personally......... it's just some things that have allowed me to be helpful or contribute to my family as well as things that are important for my personal mobility.

Edited February 22, 2010 by oldschool1962

[oldschool1962]

duplicate post........deleted

 

 

Edited February 22, 2010 by oldschool1962

[Oman]

I've known plenty of people with various disabilities and trust me I understand, you picked a car that worked for your needs, and you should get what you picked and paid for. It is just like when my brand-new (4 days old) 4wd truck had an issue in the middle of a snow storm... I told them that I paid for 4wd just for this reason and I wasn't going to take a "can't even get it out of the dealership parking lot" belly dragger as the free loaner. It took some work but the dealer paid for the AWD upgrade I needed to get my job done.

 

I hope they find the problem and resolve it quickly.

 

Jon

 

 

Hey Jon,

 

Thanks for the advice and thanks again to everyone else as well.......

 

The Service Manager himself provided me a loaner. I apologize for not clarifying that in the last post. I'm also happy to say that I have a good working relationship with the service manager. He's fired up about the whole situation and how Ford Tech support and above is reacting to and treating things. He is really committed to getting something done. I also expressed with him that we needed to get this resolved for the very reason you mentioned and he agreed fully. Our conversation was a bit more geared to the personal level and not the legal level....yet there was a clear understanding that the car was not drivable in anything but a "resolved or fully repaired" situation.

 

My only concern is how long are they going to have the car to get it to recreate the issues and show Ford exactly what is going on? Driving the 07 Taurus is not going to be near as economical as the FFH was and there are certain aspects or options in the FFH or any other car we would currently purchase that make it possible for me to operate the car easier.

 

Without going into a great deal of detail.....and I hate to use this as an excuse as I haven't but one other time in the six years since it happened.........I am permanently disabled and while I am still somewhat or partially mobile.......... certain options of the 502a (two in particular) and the van we traded in..........made it much easier and also allow me to move away from the van to the more cost effective FFH........ by the way the van had caused no additional issues or discomfort. The van was traded not because we had issues with it or it was a problem but we wanted to help improve our economic condition and the van was costing too much to operate. The options I am speaking of are not typically available in a loaner from a Ford dealer.

 

Now.......I can deal without them for a short time but not the long term. I guess....in other words.....a few days max but after that...... the car actually aggravates things to the point that I can't operate a vehicle or walk. It's hard to explain and I'm sure even harder to understand....especially with as vague as I am being but................Leather and a back-up camera in a vehicle are no longer just options for me..... The leather allows me to get in and out of the vehicle with somewhat less pain and without assistance and the camera allows me to navigate down a drive or out of a parking spot without turning my torso or neck too far........ two things I am unable to do without complications or serious pain.....Personally......... it's just some things that have allowed me to be helpful or contribute to my family as well as things that are important for my personal mobility.

[oldschool1962]

Hey Jon,

 

Thanks. I guess I wouldn't have even mentioned the disability thing if it wasn't for the guilt associated with it (my own issues) and because of it (my own issues) I'm trying very hard to prove that I'm not some maroon or an overly self indulgent boomer that has more ego and inappropriate attitude than............... or looking for a "Pity Party"

 

Then again I could just plead MIS ..........Medication Influenced Stupidity.

Hey there's an acronym and BS medical term for everything out there these days so why not that .

Edited February 23, 2010 by oldschool1962

[sullied]

If things get too hairy, remind them of how Ford handled the Pinto back in the 70s.