oldschool1962 Report post Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) .....those that have not had braking issues. I really need help getting these questions answered by someone else that has had the Brake update performed or not had the need for the update. I think the update only pertains to FFH's manufactured prior to November 1, 2009. The conditions I am looking for are the car has been run so the ICE and battery packs are adequately warmed as well as the car has been turned off and restarted several times. Good time to pay attention to this is when you are running quick errands but it is not necessary. If the car has been off for more than several minutes is fine as well......I think.. After starting the car, allowing all the systems to boot up and then driving off.....when you apply the brakes.........does the car show the regen icon or does the icon not appear.? Iam using the 3rd setting so I actually have that green recycle icon and I can't remember if all the settings use this or some form of gauge to show the regen process. If it does not appear, how long after you begin driving does it take the icon to appear? The HV battery state of charge is not realevant but I would like to know at what level the charge indicator is showing if the icon appears or does not appear. Do you notice any difference in the pedal feel, pressure or otherwise.......... related to how the car brakes? Without the Icon? With the Icon? That is all for now and I will explain after I can get a few answeres to these questions. Let me thank everyone in advance any and all the help that can be provided. Edited February 10, 2010 by oldschool1962 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oman Report post Posted February 10, 2010 I just went from the April software to the latest February update. It has been in for one day (3 driving sessions). The car now requires about 1 mile of driving before showing the regen braking symbol. The engine braking works immediately (up arrow on battery when letting off the accelerator). Previously it would use regen braking as soon as the car was running for about a minute. The brakes feel exactly the same no matter if the display shows regen braking or not. Jon .....those that have not had braking issues. I really need help getting these questions answered by someone else that has had the Brake update performed or not had the need for the update. I think the update only pertains to FFH's manufactured prior to November 1, 2009. The conditions I am looking for are the car has been run so the ICE and battery packs are adequately warmed as well as the car has been turned off and restarted several times. Good time to pay attention to this is when you are running quick errands but it is not necessary. If the car has been off for more than several minutes is fine as well......I think.. After starting the car, allowing all the systems to boot up and then driving off.....when you apply the brakes.........does the car show the regen icon or does the icon not appear.? Iam using the 3rd setting so I actually have that green recycle icon and I can't remember if all the settings use this or some form of gauge to show the regen process. If it does not appear, how long after you begin driving does it take the icon to appear? The HV battery state of charge is not realevant but I would like to know at what level the charge indicator is showing if the icon appears or does not appear. Do you notice any difference in the pedal feel, pressure or otherwise.......... related to how the car brakes? Without the Icon? With the Icon? That is all for now and I will explain after I can get a few answeres to these questions. Let me thank everyone in advance any and all the help that can be provided. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldschool1962 Report post Posted February 10, 2010 I just went from the April software to the latest February update. It has been in for one day (3 driving sessions). The car now requires about 1 mile of driving before showing the regen braking symbol. The engine braking works immediately (up arrow on battery when letting off the accelerator). Previously it would use regen braking as soon as the car was running for about a minute. The brakes feel exactly the same no matter if the display shows regen braking or not. Jon Jon, Hypothetically speaking of course...... Why is it that the reprogram doesn't allow the regen to work for the first mile? What if you drove the car for 300 miles worth of driving after the reprogram was performed and the regen worked every time you stepped on the brake......no matter what and then it automatically stopped? What about if the little blue regen arrow that appears when you coast were not to appear but also disappear when you stepped on the brake? and finally........... What if there were a different pedal and stopping feel when the regen icon didn't appear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oman Report post Posted February 10, 2010 If this had been going on for a while (it can take 15 good continuous highway like miles or so to complete a battery conditioning) then I would take my car in and tell them it is acting strange. I would watch the battery gauge. It can only charge by the ICE running or with regen braking. If the battery drains in EV mode and then just "comes up" while braking then the display would have to be wrong. In any event there seems to be something going wrong assuming you are not in a battery conditioning cycle - the problem will be in convincing your dealer that it isn't your imagination. Jon Jon, Hypothetically speaking of course...... Why is it that the reprogram doesn't allow the regen to work for the first mile? What if you drove the car for 300 miles worth of driving after the reprogram was performed and the regen worked every time you stepped on the brake......no matter what and then it automatically stopped? What about if the little blue regen arrow that appears when you coast were not to appear but also disappear when you stepped on the brake? and finally........... What if there were a different pedal and stopping feel when the regen icon didn't appear? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted February 10, 2010 I just went from the April software to the latest February update. It has been in for one day (3 driving sessions). The car now requires about 1 mile of driving before showing the regen braking symbol. The engine braking works immediately (up arrow on battery when letting off the accelerator). Previously it would use regen braking as soon as the car was running for about a minute. The brakes feel exactly the same no matter if the display shows regen braking or not. Jon My typical drive is a mile. Does that mean I'll have little regen braking and energy recovery? That's a bummer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oman Report post Posted February 10, 2010 Yep, at least when it is cool out. The engine needs to warm up to temp before most of the goodies can do their magic. If you do 1 mile per trip and 50 trips per day then the engine would be warm but there still is an initial start-up each time. Jon My typical drive is a mile. Does that mean I'll have little regen braking and energy recovery? That's a bummer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldschool1962 Report post Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Theoretically....can the system get stuck in a reconditioning cycle without there being an error light, warning sirens or........ My knowledge of computers and software ends after I hit the power-up button on computers. :doh: The car just hit 6100 miles so when would a typical reconditioning cycle begin? The answer would or may need to know that the system has been completely reset 4 times now through downloading info off of several or all of the control modules. Is it based off of mileage? Battery charge and discharge cycles? Time? Or a combination of any or all of the afore mentioned. I certainly liked Robert D. Raifords take on cars this morning.......hit my sentiments exactly. :headspin: I'm also in agreement with you Lee if this first mile is the case. There is an great deal of energy lost if the system is not going to charge for the first mile evertime you start and restart the car.....that's knowing that the battery is only good for a mile at 25 miles an hour from a state of full charge. What good is capturing the energy and using the system as a selling point if it doesn't work for all, half or a third of most trips in the city or small town? Just for the record our city measures 3miles X 4miles and the longest trip on average outside that is 6 miles. Lotsa energy lost I have to ask why the change from what theing were like when the cars were purchased? Edited February 10, 2010 by oldschool1962 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldschool1962 Report post Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) Yep, at least when it is cool out. The engine needs to warm up to temp before most of the goodies can do their magic. If you do 1 mile per trip and 50 trips per day then the engine would be warm but there still is an initial start-up each time. Jon Another question regarding the engine temp...........why does the regen not work if the engine is adequately warmed up or in other words the car has been off for less than 5 minutes and the display shows the temperature in the midrange of the scale? I haven't heard back from Ford yet as they have my car for all of the things I have mentioned in the post. I guess there is more to it than me being crazy. I would hope that they would have let me know something if there wasn't a problem. :waiting: Edited February 10, 2010 by oldschool1962 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ICEY Report post Posted February 11, 2010 .....those that have not had braking issues. I really need help getting these questions answered by someone else that has had the Brake update performed or not had the need for the update. I think the update only pertains to FFH's manufactured prior to November 1, 2009. The conditions I am looking for are the car has been run so the ICE and battery packs are adequately warmed as well as the car has been turned off and restarted several times. Good time to pay attention to this is when you are running quick errands but it is not necessary. If the car has been off for more than several minutes is fine as well......I think.. After starting the car, allowing all the systems to boot up and then driving off.....when you apply the brakes.........does the car show the regen icon or does the icon not appear.? Iam using the 3rd setting so I actually have that green recycle icon and I can't remember if all the settings use this or some form of gauge to show the regen process. If it does not appear, how long after you begin driving does it take the icon to appear? The HV battery state of charge is not realevant but I would like to know at what level the charge indicator is showing if the icon appears or does not appear. Do you notice any difference in the pedal feel, pressure or otherwise.......... related to how the car brakes? Without the Icon? With the Icon? That is all for now and I will explain after I can get a few answeres to these questions. Let me thank everyone in advance any and all the help that can be provided. First of all did not know there was a brake upgrade. My FFH has 7500 mi. and was made pre Nov '09. My brake regen icon (little circle of arrows around battery) starts after about a mile. I think it always has and I just figured that was normal. This is from a cold start. Once warm the circle of arrows is always there when braking. Never noticed a change in pedal response. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FFHdriver Report post Posted February 11, 2010 First of all did not know there was a brake upgrade. My FFH has 7500 mi. and was made pre Nov '09. My brake regen icon (little circle of arrows around battery) starts after about a mile. I think it always has and I just figured that was normal. This is from a cold start. Once warm the circle of arrows is always there when braking. Never noticed a change in pedal response. SteveA question for those of you who have had the brake update done, did you get a letter from Ford about it before you took it to the dealer? TIA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted February 11, 2010 In milder Florida, my regen brakes have always worked from the start whether the ICE is running or not. Will the upgrade change that? I understand that in cold weather the computer may not let the HVB accept regen braking until the battery warms a little. What do you think, Oman? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lolder Report post Posted February 11, 2010 First of all did not know there was a brake upgrade. My FFH has 7500 mi. and was made pre Nov '09. My brake regen icon (little circle of arrows around battery) starts after about a mile. I think it always has and I just figured that was normal. This is from a cold start. Once warm the circle of arrows is always there when braking. Never noticed a change in pedal response. Steve The brake software apparently changed on cars manufactured after the middle of Oct., 09. Look on you placard at bottom of drivers door sill; it tells manufacturing month and year in upper left corner after "Date". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldschool1962 Report post Posted February 11, 2010 In milder Florida, my regen brakes have always worked from the start whether the ICE is running or not. Will the upgrade change that? I understand that in cold weather the computer may not let the HVB accept regen braking until the battery warms a little. What do you think, Oman? I know I'm not Jon here but I have a couple comments regarding your question Lee. That was how it was explained to me but mine did the regen from the start even on morning that the temp was 15 deg. It also didn't do it consistently. Some days it wouldn't do it from the start even if it was 60 degrees out side and others it did. This would happen for days on end and then it would just stop. Remember that the regen was happening from the time they did the upgrade until this morning or around 6 cycles of turning the car on and off. The other thing I wanted to mention was that when the regen does quit working....or I should say the icon doesn't show up in the display......when I apply the brakes they grab. They respond exactly like the hydraulic brakes just kicked in but there is not inch or two in pedal travel but it's lessened almost stiff.. When the Icon appears again, the brakes have a softer approach to slowing the car like there are using the CVT to....well do it's job in regen and they have more travel in the pedal before the car starts to grab. I don't know how else to explain things. but this is and has gotten very frustrating :drop: I was so elated last night after I parked the car. I mean I was really happy since what was performed actually made a difference and believe me I was sceptically the entire time. Even this morning when I went out to drive my wife to her meeting place I couldn't believe that all worked as it had when I turned the car off and then again when I went to run the ESN #'s to the Dealer. I just don't understand how it can work one way for close to 300 miles of driving and then quit only to be chalked up to???????? How many variables can there be with one person driving the car over the same roads on the same routes at the same speeds with the same acceleration and braking being performed the same way each and every day? I mean I spent a career life as an Executive Chef perfecting my repetition and consistency just as a golfer perfects that all important muscle memory. In fact I also played golf, skied and raced cars so I actually can grasp the whole concept. It's programing and it's supposed to be repetetive and consistant....isn't it?????? :blink: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites