Tires, any favorites? Michelin Defender, Premier A/S, Energy Saver

[ethermion]

Oh, darn. Not this crap again.

 

50 SPI? Go for it dude, whatever that is. Wooden wagon wheels might even be better for you, though a quick Google search does not reveal any that fit a FFH (which you do not own).

 

Wanna get 600 miles on a tank? Learn that there is 2 - 2 1/2 gallons in the tank when the dash says distance to empty (DTE) is zero.

[ptjones]

The nice thing about Michelin ES a/s is that it is an automatic improvement in MPG's, You don't have to change your driving style. BTW I tested the FFH tank size and you have 1.7 gal. left when you hit 0 miles to empty. http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/9610-ffh-has-a-141gal-fuel-tank/page-1 So if you are getting 40 mpg you should be able to go another 70 miles. :)

 

Paul

[Cobra348]

The nice thing about Michelin ES a/s is that it is an automatic improvement in MPG's, You don't have to change your driving style. BTW I tested the FFH tank size and you have 1.7 gal. left when you hit 0 miles to empty. http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/9610-ffh-has-a-141gal-fuel-tank/page-1 So if you are getting 40 mpg you should be able to go another 70 miles. :)

 

Paul

That is reserve to prevent the fuel pump from running dry. If using that reserve amount I would recommend no more than 1 gallons worth at whatever WMP the car thinks it has.

[Sky14FFH]

I have found using 50 SPI will improve mpg's more and make tires last longer too. :)

Paul

50psi would destroy my suspension. Just two days ago the road commission decided to gouge out an intersection. Completely dark, no markings except for the ubiquitous cones pulled off to the side, nowhere near the problem, tired running out for a bite I hit the ledge at 40mph. WHUMP! Tires are at 38psi. Scared the heck out of me. I SO HOPE there is no damage that could come back to haunt me. Also, last time the energy savers developed a small bubble on one of the side walls and I read their sidewalls were weak. The Energy Savers lasted two winters before they lost adequate traction in the snow. The last winter was absolutely scary and I had to drive very slow in the snow. I'd rather be safer to be honest. These premiers grip and getting 49mpg is ok.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Sky14FFH

[ptjones]

The tank isn't dry when the fuel pump pickup stops getting fuel and the fuel pump stops when ICE stops according to my FORD Service Manager so no pump over heating problems. I did my gas mileage testing 5-6 years ago, I ran out on purpose 5 times and I currently have 231k miles on MADMAX with no ICE problems, getting as good MPG's as I have ever gotten. :)

 

50psi would destroy my suspension. Just two days ago the road commission decided to gouge out an intersection. Completely dark, no markings except for the ubiquitous cones pulled off to the side, nowhere near the problem, tired running out for a bite I hit the ledge at 40mph. WHUMP! Tires are at 38psi. Scared the heck out of me. I SO HOPE there is no damage that could come back to haunt me. Also, last time the energy savers developed a small bubble on one of the side walls and I read their sidewalls were weak. The Energy Savers lasted two winters before they lost adequate traction in the snow. The last winter was absolutely scary and I had to drive very slow in the snow. I'd rather be safer to be honest. These premiers grip and getting 49mpg is ok.

I'm glad you are happy with Premiers and you agreed with me that they don't get as good gas mileage as Energy Savers. You are miss informed that 50 spi is going to hurt your suspension, I have been using 50 psi sense almost new and again with 231k miles/ 6.5 yrs. I haven't replaced anything until about 10k ago. The right hand half shaft CV Joint which was cause from boot getting torn.

 

Paul

[Sky14FFH]

ptjones you're uninformed about how bad the roads are here. 38psi is 3 above recommended and it's still not easy on the suspension. Living in Florida you wouldn't know how water expands when it freezes. It's one of the strongest forces in the world that can split steel. This gets into every crack on the road and after several thaw freeze cycles each winter the roads become a mess if not built properly, and many are not.

Edit: It's not really about being "informed". I am old enough by now to have the EXPERIENCE to KNOW bad roads destroy suspensions. No one has "informed" me of anything. I have seen it, experienced it and have seen others experience it. I saw a young guy's right front wheel break off his minivan once at an intersection and roll across the road in front of us. Was the most hilarious thing, but he hit a big pothole. Would not have been fun if the wheel hit someone's car.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Sky14FFH

[ptjones]

ptjones you're uninformed about how bad the roads are here. 38psi is 3 above recommended and it's still not easy on the suspension. Living in Florida you wouldn't know how water expands when it freezes. It's one of the strongest forces in the world that can split steel. This gets into every crack on the road and after several thaw freeze cycles each winter the roads become a mess if not built properly, and many are not.

Actually I live in North Georgia and drive all around the country on business all year around including snowy driving. Looking at the FFH/CMAX Suspension forums there doesn't seem to be any significant suspension problems with members using up to 50 psi. CMAX which weighs 10 lbs less, the door decal pressure is 38 psi, I hardly can tell a difference in the ride at 50 psi. If there was a problem I would have seen it by 231k miles. FORD test their cars in MI and the cars were built there. Interesting I haven't heard of any problems with members using 50 psi tire pressure. OM says not to exceed tire manufacturers ( Michelin's) max pressure of 51 psi. :)

 

Paul

[billford]

I think if you drive on poor roads, you may want to add some pressure just to give some added rim protection

[ptjones]

I think if you drive on poor roads, you may want to add some pressure just to give some added rim protection

If you watched my video's you would seen the LEXAN wheel covers. :)

 

Paul

[billford]

If you watched my video's you would seen the LEXAN wheel covers. :)

 

Paul

 

How is a wheel cover supposed to protect the rim from poor roads, meaning potholes????

[Sky14FFH]

FORD test their cars in MI and the cars were built there. Interesting I haven't heard of any problems with members using 50 psi tire pressure. OM says not to exceed tire manufacturers ( Michelin's) max pressure of 51 psi. :)

That's the presumption isn't it? You forget I am there, in the midst of Ford contry. But after talking to a Ford exec (my uncle worked for them too) they actually test the cars in Kingman, Arizona. The only 4 cylinder car I ever had overheat on me was a mazda protege and it had completely run out of water, in Hawaii, in city traffic in the summer. It was because I had reached the city driving to the garage it wasn't being air cooled anymore. So they seem to obsess on testing for overheating but not overcooling. If they were testing them properly in Michigan the FFH wouldn't run so cold in the winter. I just cannot get heat out of the vents when it is 10F or below. I freeze. I have to sit in the garage with the engine running and my foot on the pedal to get the temp to go up which is why I am still trying to find a way to cut those lexan panels you helped me out a few months ago to put on for next winter. Additionally Fords have been RUSTING again, especially the Escape hybrids I was looking for at one time. If they were tested properly in Michigan they would have solved the rust issue because the roads are sprayed with corrosive salt. I see early and mid 2000 Fords in much worse rust shape than my 1999, even though that has it too.

It's good to know the Ford Fusion suspensions are strong but I am not taking any chances in that regard. The roads really are notoriously vicious hereand the road commission RARELY reimburses people for the damage to their suspensions. I had to change the outer tie rod ends on my 1999 twice and that car is cheap to repair. The tires alone on the fusion are double what the tires on the escort are. I dread to discover how much suspension work costs on the FFH.

Oh and the recommended maximum pressure on the Michelin Premiers is 44psi. I just cannot take the chances at this point. Getting the huge screw in the tire was stress enough. I just hope modern patching techniques make the tire just as strong.

Link me to the videos please.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Sky14FFH

[Sky14FFH]

I think if you drive on poor roads, you may want to add some pressure just to give some added rim protection

No way, the suspension, and other parts of the car will suffer and the recommended 35psi is adequate to protect the rim. I'm taking chances with 38. My 20 year old escort is believe it or not still pretty solid. Way more solid than a GM car would be after 4 years and I know how to keep it that way. There are some rattles coming from the dash board but that's to be expected after 10+ years.

[billford]

No way, the suspension, and other parts of the car will suffer and the recommended 35psi is adequate to protect the rim. I'm taking chances with 38. My 20 year old escort is believe it or not still pretty solid. Way more solid than a GM car would be after 4 years and I know how to keep it that way. There are some rattles coming from the dash board but that's to be expected after 10+ years.

 

My 2014 has 40 psi since new, almost 6 years, no issues except for a few software updates. Pressure rises to about 43 psi in hot weather, hot roads.

[Waldo]

That's the presumption isn't it? You forget I am there, in the midst of Ford contry. But after talking to a Ford exec (my uncle worked for them too) they actually test the cars in Kingman, Arizona.

 

Ford sold the facility in Kingman to Chrysler over 10 years ago. And before that the only thing that was run there was the truck durability. All Ford durability testing is now run at the facility in Romeo Michigan, but it's a controlled test facility and really has nothing to do with the actual roads in Michigan. The vast majority of testing is actually run indoors in climate chambers, wind tunnels and dynos anyway.

 

But you are right that higher tire pressures does transmit more load into the suspension components and the vehicle. Ford runs all their load testing at the recommended tire pressure, so running higher than that is putting more load through the suspension then it was designed for. But it is designed for the theoretically worst driving conditions, so running higher pressures on the smooth southern roads is certainly going to produce less overall "damage" than running at the recommended pressures on bad mid-west roads.

[ethermion]

This thread is getting really sideways.

 

Buy thoughtful tires, which for us is Goodyear Eagle F1s - though there are many credible options out there. Stickier, better in wet weather, better in snow. Inflate them to the spec inside your car door.

 

Kingman or Romeo, whatever. Either place there is a tire guy that is smarter about tires than everyone else on this forum combined. Read, and follow the sticker. Mother Nature and Darwin select against those who ignore.

[ptjones]

 

My 2014 has 40 psi since new, almost 6 years, no issues except for a few software updates. Pressure rises to about 43 psi in hot weather, hot roads.

Tire pressure is always measured when tires are cold, depending how hot they get will very the pressure and that isn't a problem. If the max pressure is 44 psi then you shouldn't go over that cold pressure. Tires do run cooler with higher pressures when it's Hot Outside. One could say given some posters logic that you should only use Michelin ES because that is what FORD put on the car. Then again why would you buy a FFH for gas mileage and then put poor gas mileage tires on it. It would have been a lot cheaper and lighter to get an ICE Fusion with performance tires standard. For me the Michelin's work just fine in all weather conditions as long as they have some tread on them, using 50PSI and they save gas money by getting the best MPG's. :)

 

Paul

 

Paul

[Timewellspent]

I'm still waiting to hear why Ford wouldn't put 50Psi on the door sticker if that is going to yield the best possible MPG's. I would assume Ford would want the max MPG rating to advertise. They obviously are using 35Psi for a reason. Getting back on track. I just replaced my OEM tires with 71,189 miles on them. I went with Michelin Defenders. I haven't had them on long enough to have a strong feeling yet, but drove home in a pretty good rain last night and it was like night and day from the Michelin Energy Savers. Looking forward to see how they handle the snow this winter.

[3clusterliver9]

That’s really impressive mileage on your oem’s! I thought the 42k that I got was quite good but I’m a real slacker compared with you. I, too, chose the Defender thinking I’d sacrifice some mpg’s for longer tire life. Mpg has dropped a bit but I do believe that handling is better in wet weather. We’ll see about snow later. Overall, I’m satisfied so far with the Defenders after 6k miles on them.

[ptjones]

I'm still waiting to hear why Ford wouldn't put 50Psi on the door sticker if that is going to yield the best possible MPG's. I would assume Ford would want the max MPG rating to advertise. They obviously are using 35Psi for a reason. Getting back on track. I just replaced my OEM tires with 71,189 miles on them. I went with Michelin Defenders. I haven't had them on long enough to have a strong feeling yet, but drove home in a pretty good rain last night and it was like night and day from the Michelin Energy Savers. Looking forward to see how they handle the snow this winter.

Interesting you are comparing worn out Energy Savers to New Michelin Defenders. Let us know how much you lost in MPG's, would be curious to know. :) There is also a big difference between New and Worn out Energy Savers, changed mine recently. Also ES corner better when worn out (3-4/32") and get a little better mpg's too.

 

Paul

[ptjones]

That’s really impressive mileage on your oem’s! I thought the 42k that I got was quite good but I’m a real slacker compared with you. I, too, chose the Defender thinking I’d sacrifice some mpg’s for longer tire life. Mpg has dropped a bit but I do believe that handling is better in wet weather. We’ll see about snow later. Overall, I’m satisfied so far with the Defenders after 6k miles on them.

Michelin Energy Savers are Warrantied for 55k miles, I got 64k miles out of first two sets and they weren't worn out, changed because I was going to be driving in the snow cross country. Third set got 87K miles had 3-4/ 32" left, it seems common to go over 55k miles on all four H/E sites. Alignment/rotating tires is important to getting good mileage out of tires.

 

Paul

[Timewellspent]

Michelin Energy Savers are Warrantied for 55k miles, I got 64k miles out of first two sets and they weren't worn out, changed because I was going to be driving in the snow cross country. Third set got 87K miles had 3-4/ 32" left, it seems common to go over 55k miles on all four H/E sites. Alignment/rotating tires is important to getting good mileage out of tires.

 

Paul

 

So you got 64K running at 50psi. I got 71k running at 35Psi. Mine weren't worn out yet either, but sucked in winter since day 1 and didn't do well in the rain in my opinion.

[3clusterliver9]

Interesting you are comparing worn out Energy Savers to New Michelin Defenders. Let us know how much you lost in MPG's, would be curious to know. :) There is also a big difference between New and Worn out Energy Savers, changed mine recently. Also ES corner better when worn out (3-4/32") and get a little better mpg's too.

 

Paul

 

Comparing July ‘18 and July ‘19, there’s a difference of about 1 mpg. Of course, the Energy Savers had about 30k more miles on them.

Tires are religiously rotated at 5k and inflation is 35 psi.

Tire were changed as traction had deteriorated and Winter was here.

[Timewellspent]

Interesting you are comparing worn out Energy Savers to New Michelin Defenders. Let us know how much you lost in MPG's, would be curious to know. :) There is also a big difference between New and Worn out Energy Savers, changed mine recently. Also ES corner better when worn out (3-4/32") and get a little better mpg's too.

 

Paul

 

When did I compare worn out Energy Savers to New Defenders? As stated I haven't had them on long enough to compare. I know the mileage will take a hit, but the ES tires did not do very well in the rain or snow since I purchased the car which is why I didn't go with them again. You still haven't answered my question on why Ford doesn't put 50Psi on the door since this is the best Psi for the highest MPG.

[ptjones]

 

So you got 64K running at 50psi. I got 71k running at 35Psi. Mine weren't worn out yet either, but sucked in winter since day 1 and didn't do well in the rain in my opinion.

87k miles is 25% better than 71k miles and at 50 psi the tires do better in the rain IMO. :)

 

 

When did I compare worn out Energy Savers to New Defenders? As stated I haven't had them on long enough to compare. I know the mileage will take a hit, but the ES tires did not do very well in the rain or snow since I purchased the car which is why I didn't go with them again. You still haven't answered my question on why Ford doesn't put 50Psi on the door since this is the best Psi for the highest MPG.

Your Post #42 " drove home in a pretty good rain last night and it was like night and day from the Michelin Energy Savers"

 

I asked My FORD Service Mgr to ask FORD about tire pressures and he got a no comment. I did talk to Tire Rack tire testers and they said that it is common for FORD to under inflate there tires to get a little softer ride, tire pressures are a compromise between ride quality, gas mileage, handling among other things. You didn't explain why the FFH/ CMAX have 35/38 psi for two FORD cars that weight the same and have similar suspension. It would appear that ride quality/ smoothness is high on their priority list. :)

 

Paul

[Sky14FFH]

My 2014 has 40 psi since new, almost 6 years, no issues except for a few software updates. Pressure rises to about 43 psi in hot weather, hot roads.

What? a few updates? I asked the dealer about this. They said there hasn't been any. How do I get one?