milleron

I'm finding that when my ICE comes on it's because either there's too much demand for power for the car to continue in EV -- i.e., an upgrade -- or the SOC is too low to continue in EV, so it usually seems impossible to manipulate it into further EV time. Otherwise, I'm making an attempt to do it the way you describe, but it can be a little frustrating. I'm starting to think that much of the differences we experience can be due to the hilliness of the terrain we traverse in daily driving. We can control to some extent for the length of trips and the way we drive, but topology can kill some of us no matter how hard we try. I live in a relatively flat part of the US, but the way our civil engineers elected to construct our freeways back in the 60s proves that they were all roller coaster junkies. I can pretty easily get near 45 mpg as long as the trip's not short and most of it's on city streets. When I'm forced to take our Interstates and freeways, trip mileage drops by about 5-8 mpg because there are almost no level areas. In that scenario, the downgrades cannot make up for the upgrades, where I'm often getting 15 mpg owing to the steepness of the hill and the low SOC when the ICE kicks in. I haven't been able to figure out anything to do on our suburban Interstates but let the ICE continue to churn hard and wait for top of the long, long hills.

No, no, no, no, no to any and all ideas on increasing taxes in any way. Quibbling over the fairest way to raise the tax is like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If the politicians, damn their eyes, don't have enough money to pay for road repair, it's their JOB, for which they're PAID with MY TAXES, to find a way to do it with the money we're giving them, which is already scandalous. To anyone who says this approach is overly simplistic, let me point out that by just doing their job and wiping out the obscenely ludicrous set of IRS regulations (which make the founding fathers writhe in their graves) they would save enough money and produce enough additional revenue to pay for all the road repairs in the nation. Never vote for any new tax . . . unless maybe it's for a prison.

Just think what would happen if the computer programmers at the various antivirus companies had the same work ethic as the "software" lackeys at Ford. The entire Internet would be nonfunctional within a week. That "60-day" BS about fixing a problem that's leaving paying customers with cars that suddenly won't start, is utterly reprehensible. SHAME on you FoMoCo.

That button on the side of the knob is for Grade Assist, not Hill Assist. How did you determine that the button works?

Hill Assist cannot be turned on & off. It senses when the car is on a hill and keeps the brakes applied for the second or two it takes you to move your foot from the brake pedal & get enough torque to keep the car from rolling backward -- especially important on cars in which the ICE may not be running. Grade Assist can be turned off and on. It applies extra engine braking going down [steep] hills. I think I"ve learned from this thread that Grade Assist differs from Low in that it won't actually slow the car on a downhill whereas Low certainly will slow you down, even going downhill. I think that both Grade Assist and Low recharge the HVB faster than leaving the car in Drive. Is this correct?

John Denver has that song on one of his Christmas albums. If you're making that comparison to these sounds, it's appropriate to recall that each chorus ended "I never knew just what it was, and I guess I never will."

I'm learning to do a little better, or maybe it's just that temps are up by 10° over last week. At any rate, I've managed an off-freeway trip around home that averaged 45.5 mpg for ten miles. Maybe the car is not basically flawed. Even though I have a good idea how to drive it and won't change techniques much from here on out, it may become easier to drive as these methods become second nature.

Following some suggestions given here, I've managed a ten-mile trip OFF freeway of 45.5 mpg, so I'm hoping that indicates that nothing's seriously wrong with the car. Perhaps it'll improve a couple of mpg with break-in completed, although I'm far from that point. Thanks, GrySql for some very interesting reading. Ron

Wouldn't a flywheel with enough mass to store enough energy to accelerate the auto also resist changing the direction of the car via it's gyroscopic properties?

I think I spy mud flaps (splash guards) front but not rear. I'm curious why you didn't do both ends. Did you give Deep Blue a coat of wax yet?

And let's not forget the unbelievable irony of the feds giving tax credits to encourage the purchase of EVs and the states instituting new taxes to punish us for doing the same thing. The politicians have truly lost their collective mind altogether. I'm through the looking glass where nothing is quite as it seems. Where's the mushroom that makes me larger? (No, not that part of me.)

Exactly. I think the problem is that many drivers turn on their lights only when they need them to see the road. They're <dare I say it?> too ignorant to understand that the headlights are just as important for BEING seen as they are for seeing. I might have a little evidence to support this possibility: when I flash high beams at oncoming cars without their lights on at dusk or in the rain, they almost never respond by turning them on. I believe they're thinking "Why did that a**!^%e flash me when it's plenty light enough for me to see where I'm going?"

It's pretty warm in the midwest now. There's obviously not any summertime heat, but driving to work in the mornings is usualy in the 50s, and afternoons have been in the 60s. However, I've stopped driving my new Hybrid to work. It's economy is just marginally better than my V6 Accord, and I don't have to baby, coax, and coddle the Accord 100% of the time to get nearly the same mileage. I didn't think the Hybrid would be quite the PITA to drive that it is, but I would have been willing to accept that for the reward of good mileage. As it is, all the pulse and glide, painfully slow acceleration, and the need to pay more attention to the instrument panel than to traffic has taken the enjoyment out of driving the Hybrid for almost no reward. I think one might start to get at the problem by looking for differences in the economy figures for the ICE. Most of the time that my ICE runs, city or highway, it's instantaneous mileage is 15-20 mpg. Finally, as the SOC approaches high, it edges up until it gets close to 40 mpg highway or 30 in city, but it must spend 80% of the time it's running at 20 mpg. You just can't get enough EV miles out of it to ever get close to the 44-mpg numbers that seem so common on this and related forums. The math would say that 50% of my miles would have to be be on EV, and that will never happen. My question is "What kinds of ICE mileage are those with high averages seeing?" Is it the same as those of us who struggle to get figures in the mid-30s? What percentage of EV miles are those owners seeing on work commutes?

Thanks, acdii. What do you mean by "gas blends?" Ethanol percentages?

Mark, you and acdii are not the only ones suffering. I don't have many miles on my HyTi, but the average is <33 so far. I'm not sure how it comes out that low, since most trips are 35-37, but 44+ numbers exist only in my dreams. the "Coach" gives me 100% for acceleration and 98% for braking, but I can't even get close to 40, let alone 47. I'm glad you said "advertised." Many have pointed out that the 47/47/47 are EPA numbers, not Ford numbers,implying that it's not Ford's fault when people get much worse results. However, Ford has spent many millions advertising these figures and pointing out that they are "best in class," and showing how much better they are than the Camry Hybrid. Because of their actions, I think that at this point, Ford must take responsibility for those figures. While YMMV, your mileage should not be 35% lower than what they're blaring all over the nation.

Pulse & Glide tomorrow, then. I guess it's not realistic to give up yet, but after waiting for this car for 4 months with great enthusiasm, the disappointment in the worsening mileage has been so great that the enthusiasm has nearly died. It's a lot of work to baby and coddle this car, and I knew that going in, but I anticipated a reward in the form of economy and the satisfaction of knowing that I'm not dumping as many tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. So far, it's been a lot of work for no reward. The very first evening I drove it, I got 40.5 and 43 mpg on trips of 10 and 14 miles, but I haven't been able to come close to those figures since then. I VERY much appreciate the thoughtful suggestions you guys are giving me, and I'll try them all.

Today, I had another weekend work commute with mostly-deserted freeways. I put the cruise on 64 so as to go as slowly as I could without engaging EV on the freeway for about 12 miles. The trip also included about 2.5 miles of streets at 60°, and all the FFH could do was 35.9 mpg. Moving between hospitals after that, I came 6.0 miles on streets, only 2.8 miles of which was done with the ICE. 53% of that short trip was EV, and it came out to only 37 mpg. I'm noticing in city driving that when the ICE is on, the instantaneous mileage indicator is virtually never greater than 20 mpg, and it spends most of the time closer to 15 mpg. I haven't had it long enough to get severely depressed, but it's getting worse rather than better, in spite of babying it and getting brake and acceleration scores close to 95%. Is something wrong with this car??

No clicky clunky noises, but the car's still almost brand new -- less than 300 miles. The unpleasant noise, for me, is the sound of the Atkinson-cycle engine mated with that CVT. It doesn't sound like the "automobile engine" we've known all our lives. I'm not complaining, but it will take some getting used to. Click and Clack once said that the easiest way to "restore power" to an engine is by replacing the muffler. What they meant is that when drivers hear a loud noise from depressing the accelerator, they instinctively want to back off the throttle. When the noise is gone, it allows them to continue pressing the pedal, giving them a sense of torque and power that they haven't felt in a while. They say they've actually had customers tell them how powerful the engine is once that old muffler's been replaced. Well, it's the sound of that whining Atkinson-cycle/CVT that makes me want to accelerate more slowly and makes me feel like the FFH's power plant is weaker than it probably really is. It's probably a good thing as it really inhibits me from "punching it" during break-in. I hope I get used to it eventually.

It's quiet when the ICE is off, all right. But when that thing kicks in, the CVT revs so high that I wouldn't call it quiet. It doesn't even sound like a well-muffled internal combustion engine, more like a loud sewing machine clacking away, not a comforting sound to me. I hate to think what it would sound like without its so-called active noise cancellation.

So for you, Eco-Cruise is actually working the opposite of how it's designed to work??

I do know what you mean. My 2003 Accord has the average for the current tank in its "Info" display. It also retains the distance traveled and the mileage for the immediately-previous tank of gas as well. It knows when its tank has been refilled, transfers the current numbers to its history, and starts over again from zero miles driven and zero hours. Very handy, and I miss that feature in my FFH.

I went to work this morning, a Saturday, with little traffic on the road. I got in the right lane and set the cruise to 60. The car went into and out of EV several times during the 10-mi trip that's mostly freeway. What I noticed was that every time, the ICE turned on, the instantaneous mpg would be very close to 20. It would gradually inch up until it got to around 35, when it would go into EV again. The overall mileage for that trip was about 38 mpg, just slightly better than I'd have gotten in my ten-year-old 240hp Accord V6 coupe driving 65-68 all the way. After work, I took a jaunt on the freeway. This time, I was careful to set the cruise to 64 to prevent EV mode from cutting in an out. The instantaneous economy readouts then exceeded 40 for most of the trip -- 30 uphill and 50+ downhill, as I'd expect from a mid-size family car. The mileage for the 26-mile trip was 44. When the car cannot continue in EV because of a low SOC, I'm deducing that the mileage is dreadful because the CVT has to rev high to recharge the HV battery. So when the car spends 3/4 of it's time at 20mpg and 1/4 in EV, the results can be quite disappointing. When you drive it fast enough that the ICE stays on, the SOC remains high enough that the ICE is not tasked heavily with recharging the HVB, and EV can take over with a high SOC on exiting the highway, the results seem better. Is my explanation correct? Have any of the rest of you experienced the same phenomenon? Ron

I waited 17 weeks, but, then, I placed the order for the HyTi 2.5 months before production started. I rather imagine that waiting times will be much shorter now that Hermosillo has worked through much of that original backlog and that those waits will continue to shorten as we get nearer and nearer the end of the model year. The asymptote that's being approached is the transit time from the factory in Mexico which seems to be at least 2 weeks and usually closer to three. That means that anyone who gets a car in a month is probably seeing it start down the production line a week after the order's placed. I don't see how it could go any faster than that.

I took delivery on my Hybrid Titanium, and my price was LESS than we'd agreed on at the time I placed the order. It turned out that I was given X-Plan pricing simply because I work for the largest employer in the area. My dealer knew that and simply substituted that new price structure without my even asking. He did have to submit a Xerox of my photo ID from work, but it was otherwise effortless on my part I was unaware that there was any way to participate in X Plan other than applying for a PIN, but here in Ohio it's available to employees of some large corporations and institutions. For anyone who works at such a place, I guess it's worth asking about eligibility.

Hoping to resurrect an old thread here. I was somewhat astonished to find that my tires, the 18" Goodyear Eagle LS's on the Hybrid Titanium, came from the factory at 44psi. They were all the same, within 0.5 psi, so I must believe that this overinflation was intentional. For now, I'm leaving them at that pressure. because, although only driving the car for one day, I've seen a 17-mi trip at 40.5 mpg and a 10.2-mi trip at 43.5 mpg while handling and ride seem exemplary. Any thoughts from the cognoscenti?