High Transmission Temperature

[raadsel]

OK, OK, I'll give you that. I know the story of the o-ring on the booster. And I have to agree that the Challenger was just a side effect of the big bang. I still remember the day it happened. January 28, 1986 I was at Ramstein Air Base, Germany picking up 6 brand new shiny Blackhawk helicopters for my unit. Offloaded them from the C-5A and put 'em in a hangar for the night. Saw the Challenger/booster exploding on the news that night when we got back to the BOQ. The TV in the lounge near the entrance was on and we walked in right in the middle of the news story. I remember thinking "what the heck is that?" when I saw the video on the TV and then they put up the caption "Challenger Tragedy" on the screen. That was sad.

 

I have to disagree with you however on the cause of the Columbia disaster. It wasn't ice, but a piece of foam insulation that broke off the Shuttle's external tank during launch and damaged the left wing. Upon re-entry, hot gases got into the damaged wing area and basically destroyed the internal wing structure making it unstable and caused the shuttle to gradually break apart. That, like the Challenger, was also very sad for me.

I saw your post today and it reminded me of my experience. I was also at Ramstein AB -- ran the computers for the military transport group at Ramstein -- so thought it was interesting we were there at the same time. I had just gotten home and turned on the Today Show on Armed Forces TV. For those wondering about watching the Today show after work, remember Germany is 6 hours ahead of the East Coast of the US, so we got the Today Show in the afternoon. And it was sad.

[GrySql]

Just got notice that MADMAX is ready and will be leaving tomorrow morning for Albuquerque to pick it up Wednesday afternoon. YA! I miss driving the car. :)

 

Paul

Are they reimbursing you for gas/lodging, etc for all this driving across the country? That is a lot of time wasted and fuel spent with that rental.

Hope MM is a happy car again!

[ptjones]

Are they reimbursing you for gas/lodging, etc for all this driving across the country? That is a lot of time wasted and fuel spent with that rental.

Hope MM is a happy car again!

No they aren't and I didn't ask, felt pretty good that I could put over 4Kmi. on new Explorer.

 

BTW RICH FORD was working on second FFH Trans for a total of 3 Hybrid Trans now. I wondering if we are seeing a trend? ;)

 

I'm back in GA now and didn't have any problems coming home, but I was able to get my TFT upto 182*F with Grill Covers on and A/C on. I do have three 3" holes in lower grill and WT was 180-190*F so not even getting to operating range of 202-212*F. I took lower cover off and TFT dropped to 160*F range, but WT dropped to 170-180*F range. ;)

 

Paul

[Texasota]

Why grill covers in the US southern region in late May?

[ptjones]

Why grill covers in the US southern region in late May?

If you are concerned about getting the best MPG's you need to have WT above 202*F and ideally have WT above 215*F so shutters will open to allow airflow to cool Trans and DC Inverter coolers. The only way for that to happen is to have Grill Covers on. With the FFH it might work by having Center grill covered and leave bottom one open. It is useful to have ScanGaugeII or Torque Gauges to monitor temps. Now when you use the A/C the shutters open and the fan turns on cooling everything off including WT which lowers MPG's. You will need to do some testing to come up with the best solution.

 

I'm looking at making an spoiler for the bottom front of car and have an air duct to go through lower ICE cover and blow cool air on Trans at HWY speeds.

 

BTW I checked my Trans cooling lines and sure enough input line is a lot hotter than the output line now so Trans pump is working. Also I averaged 47mpg coming back from Albuquerque with headwinds all the way thanks to a lot of drafting when I could. :)

 

Paul

 

Paul

[lolder]

No they aren't and I didn't ask, felt pretty good that I could put over 4Kmi. on new Explorer.

 

BTW RICH FORD was working on second FFH Trans for a total of 3 Hybrid Trans now. I wondering if we are seeing a trend? ;)

 

I'm back in GA now and didn't have any problems coming home, but I was able to get my TFT upto 182*F with Grill Covers on and A/C on. I do have three 3" holes in lower grill and WT was 180-190*F so not even getting to operating range of 202-212*F. I took lower cover off and TFT dropped to 160*F range, but WT dropped to 170-180*F range. ;)

 

Paul

ONE transmission failure for these types of transmissions is a trend. There have been many more than that including the C-Max. I would immediately remove any grill cover I had no matter what readings you get with scan gauges. So far, there is no way of knowing what is causing the failures. Everything in these cars is connected to everything else. JMO !!

 

I have heard of no transmission failures in the 70,000 2010-12 Ford Lincoln hybrid sedans.

[ptjones]

ONE transmission failure for these types of transmissions is a trend. There have been many more than that including the C-Max. I would immediately remove any grill cover I had no matter what readings you get with scan gauges. So far, there is no way of knowing what is causing the failures. Everything in these cars is connected to everything else. JMO !!

 

I have heard of no transmission failures in the 70,000 2010-12 Ford Lincoln hybrid sedans.

Really? It would appear I'm the only one with Grill Covers that has failed. Also I had 98Kmi on my CMAX so I would think that most of the Trans that have failed have alot less miles on them. I think one of them had around 30Kmi. So you could say that Grill Covers made my Trans last longer and everyone should have Grill Covers so their Trans last longer. :)

From the Testing I have done so far it would appear the problem is the shutters don't open up when the Trans is hot, only when the ICE is hot, (215*F) very hard to get that hot without Grill Covers. ;)

 

Paul

Edited May 23, 2015 by ptjones

[hybridbear]

Really? It would appear I'm the only one with Grill Covers that has failed. Also I had 98Kmi on my CMAX so I would think that most of the Trans that have failed have alot less miles on them. I think one of them had around 30Kmi. So you could say that Grill Covers made my Trans last longer and everyone should have Grill Covers so their Trans last longer. :)

From the Testing I have done so far it would appear the problem is the shutters don't open up when the Trans is hot, only when the ICE is hot, (215*F) very hard to get that hot without Grill Covers. ;)

 

Paul

This is an interesting theory. You probably have the highest mileage of just about any owner online. Your failure was also the highest mileage of any failure. Perhaps you're on to something that your grille covers keep the transmission cooler.

 

The real solution is to buy an Energi because it has an auxiliary pump for when the ICE is off.

[Texasota]

Perhaps you're on to something that your grille covers keep the transmission cooler.

 

Maybe I am confused with the acronym usage (TFT = transmission fluid temperature?) but isn't that the opposite of what PT stated in post #78:

 

 

I was able to get my TFT upto 182*F with Grill Covers on and A/C on. I do have three 3" holes in lower grill and WT was 180-190*F so not even getting to operating range of 202-212*F. I took lower cover off and TFT dropped to 160*F range, but WT dropped to 170-180*F range.

[acdii]

After reading about trans problems, and with the funky braking I experienced, in a way kinda glad I dont have it anymore. Hoping this isnt a trend though, would suck for owners and Ford if it is. Especially those who are out of warranty.

[billford]

If the trans temps are a concern, have you thought about adding an extra trans cooler in front of the shutters?

 

Do you think its a good idea to have the grille blocked while the a/c is on? I would think that would cause high a/c pressures and reduce the compressor life...

[ptjones]

If the trans temps are a concern, have you thought about adding an extra trans cooler in front of the shutters?

 

Do you think its a good idea to have the grille blocked while the a/c is on? I would think that would cause high a/c pressures and reduce the compressor life...

The Grill Covers aren't air tight and I had 3x2" holes in the lower cover. BTW the radiator fan is very powerful and will literally pull cover out of your hand if you are trying to install it if the fan is on. I really don't notice any difference in A/C with covers on or off.

 

 

Maybe I am confused with the acronym usage (TFT = transmission fluid temperature?) but isn't that the opposite of what PT stated in post #78:

 

My point was that the TFT is going to be high with Grill Covers on or off if the shutters are closed. At least with the Grill Covers on you have a chance of getting the WT to 215*F so the shutters will open to allow some air flow through Trans. Cooler. :)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

My next step is to get some digital thermocouples to constantly measure Trans cooling tube temps to see if the problem is there. Yesterday I got up to 192*F TFT so I'm wondering if Trans cooler has restriction. ;)

 

Paul

[billford]

Is this with a new transmission?

[ptjones]

Is this with a new transmission?

Yes, and they seem to be getting higher. ;)

 

Paul

[billford]

Just wondering if the data is correct. After the car sits overnight, is the trans temp, coolant temp, ambient temp all reading the same?

 

Did you check the trans temps with the a/c on? This should open the shutters and turn the rad fan on. It can tell you if air flow through the cooler is a problem.

Edited May 26, 2015 by billford

[ptjones]

Just wondering if the data is correct. After the car sits overnight, is the trans temp, coolant temp, ambient temp all reading the same?

 

Did you check the trans temps with the a/c on? This should open the shutters and turn the rad fan on. It can tell you if air flow through the cooler is a problem.

I have verified temps with Digital IR Thermometer and temps are very close in the morning.

I was able to get my TFT upto 182*F with Grill Covers on and A/C on. I do have three 2" holes in lower grill cover and WT was 180-190*F so not even getting to operating range of 202-212*F. I took lower cover off and TFT dropped to 160*F range, but WT dropped to 170-180*F range. I'm guessing that I would lose 2mpg running the WT that low. ;)

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

I have verified temps with Digital IR Thermometer and temps are very close in the morning.

I was able to get my TFT upto 182*F with Grill Covers on and A/C on. I do have three 2" holes in lower grill cover and WT was 180-190*F so not even getting to operating range of 202-212*F. I took lower cover off and TFT dropped to 160*F range, but WT dropped to 170-180*F range. I'm guessing that I would lose 2mpg running the WT that low. ;)

 

Paul

What does the SGII show for TFT when the car has sat overnight? TFT drops to near ambient temp very quickly. The TFT seems to have a low specific heat compared to the antifreeze.

Edited May 26, 2015 by hybridbear

[ptjones]

What does the SGII show for TFT when the car has sat overnight? TFT drops to near ambient temp very quickly. The TFT seems to have a low specific heat compared to the antifreeze.

This morning TFT was 78.1*F and WT was 80*F. I'm thinking about getting a 12v fan to blow air around Trans to cool it. It would be nice if I could find a temperature switch for around 160*F to make it automatic. I'm going to get Digital Thermometer to monitor cooler line temps too.

The perfect plan is to have ICE running between 202-212*F and Trans around 150*F for the best MPG.

Paul

Edited May 27, 2015 by ptjones

[ptjones]

I checked again with SM at Dealer and he said there are no specs for temp range for HF35 CVT Trans. On TrueDelta.com they have 3 failed Trans for CMAX's, mine and two low mileage CMAX's. ;)

Paul

[hybridbear]

I checked again with SM at Dealer and he said there are no specs for temp range for HF35 CVT Trans. On TrueDelta.com they have 3 failed Trans for CMAX's, mine and two low mileage CMAX's. ;)

Paul

Any FFHs? What about Energis?

[ptjones]

Any FFHs? What about Energis?

TrueDelta didn't have any FFH or Energi's listed. There a CMAX NRG owner with 70Kmi that got new trans. Right now we have virtually no info from FORD other than if it makes noise replace it. No preventative maintenance like changing the Trans Fluid at 50Kmi. All the info I have come up with is the normal temp range for Hybrid is around 150*F and mine got up to 199*F before I first heard the high pitch sound from Trans. When Trans was removed Trans Fluid was darker than normal and smelled burn, but no metal filings. My new Trans has already gotten to 192*F with 1600mi on it. Generally speaking high TFT are caused from FWY speeds and not around town. I will come up a band-aid solution eventually, but first I need to do more testing. ;)

 

Paul

[ptjones]

Given recent events I don't recommend a Trans heater pad unless you have cold temps all year long. :)

 

Paul

[hybridbear]

Instead of installing grille covers to raise the coolant temp to get the grille shutters to open you could just turn on the A/C. Turning on air conditioning causes the shutters to open which will cool the eCVT and will drop the ICE coolant from around 190-195 F to around 180 F in the summer with no grille blocking.

[ptjones]

Instead of installing grille covers to raise the coolant temp to get the grille shutters to open you could just turn on the A/C. Turning on air conditioning causes the shutters to open which will cool the eCVT and will drop the ICE coolant from around 190-195 F to around 180 F in the summer with no grille blocking.

Unfortunately that doesn't help gas mileage, you really need WT to be in the 202-212*F for MAX MPG's. You should be able to have your cake and eat it too. :)

 

Paul