SC to taxpayers: "Don't buy Fusion Hybrids"

[dalesky]

OK, a little misleading, in that they aren't saying that about Fusions only, BUT they are saying it about hybrids, electrics and alternate fuel cars!

Check this story out from The State, in Columbia SC:

written by Adam Beam

 

COLUMBIA, SC — Actors Rob Riggle and James Franco told 111 million Super Bowl viewers Sunday that the 2014 Ford Fusion hybrid has twice the fuel economy of the average car.

That has S.C. lawmakers worried.

As gas mileage increases, the number of gallons of gasoline purchased in South Carolina is decreasing — threatening the state’s gas tax revenues, the major way the state pays for road repairs. As a result of that drop, in the fiscal year that starts July 1, South Carolina is projected to collect less in gas taxes than it will collect this fiscal year.

That looming specter was enough Tuesday for state senators to delay a bill that would encourage more South Carolinians to buy hybrid and electric cars. The bill, S.402, would offer tax credits of up to $1,000 toward the purchase of a hybrid or electric car, along with re-establishing some tax credits for alternative-fuel vehicles.

“It seems like we are robbing Peter to pay Paul a little bit,” said state Sen. Joel Lourie, D-Richland. “I’m eco-sensitive to what it can mean for alternative fuels, but I want to make sure (hybrid or electric cars) are paying their fair share on the roads.”

 

Alright, so what might the hapless legislators do to make sure there is enough gas tax revenue? Here are some brilliant ideas:

 

Some amendments to a bill in the state Senate, H.3412, would address that concern, imposing a $60-a-year fee on hybrid car owners and a $120 annual fee on electric-car owners — money that would go to the state Department of Transportation for road maintenance.

Sen. Hugh Leatherman, R-Florence, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, suggested changing the way the state collects the gas tax. Instead of charging for each gallon of gas purchased, it could charge for each mile driven. Oregon plans to test a similar plan in 2015, refunding the gas taxes paid by 5,000 volunteers in exchange for a tax of 1.5 cents per mile driven.

“We’ve got to do something,” Leatherman said. “You can’t do it all gasoline tax.”

 

Gee, it's such a pleasure living with so many progressive legislators here in South Cackalacky!

 

Read more here: http://www.thestate.com/2014/02/04/3245383/fuel-efficient-cars-cut-into-money.html#storylink=cpy

Edited February 7, 2014 by dalesky

[acdii]

This is more widespread than just SC. Many states are considering this. I sure as heck dont want Big Brother tracking my miles. Bad enough they are listening in on our phones.

[dalesky]

This is more widespread than just SC. Many states are considering this. I sure as heck dont want Big Brother tracking my miles. Bad enough they are listening in on our phones.

Hearing this, I now will send some emails to my federal elected officials. Thought this was more a local issue. Unbelievable 'solution' to the lack of foresight.

[KLH]

Here's an article that discusses this topic. I'm sure that once one state does this, more will follow. It's always about the Benjamins.

[Howie411]

They added a Hybrid Tax fee in VA, it pissed a lot of people off. They recently removed it, I don't think it even lasted a whole year.

[inco]

Just love the thinking of some of these people. Yes hybrids might lessen the purchase of gas 'slightly', but that would be a good thing you state dummies because it would lessen our dependence on foreign oil. And how many hybrids are in your state - I'll bet less than 5%. And leave electrics alone while your at it. Some states and provinces here in Canada, encourage you with rebates to buy electric vehicles for that very reason. Of course you won't be buying as much gas, but you will use more electricity. They aren't stupid.

 

Sorry to be ranting - it's Friday. But governments that think adding more tax solves everything really ticks me off. Rather than look for ways to economize they raise taxes. Same with unions - they hate taking them on and so they cave. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-union, but governments offer new contracts at rates much higher than their incomes. Liabilities abound, but nobody wants to stand up and say we can't afford these things and so you get hybrid taxes among others. Ok, that's it. My apologies if I have offended a few.

[jeff_h]

They added a Hybrid Tax fee in VA, it pissed a lot of people off. They recently removed it, I don't think it even lasted a whole year.

 

Just two days ago I got a check in the mail from the Commonweath of Virginia for $58.25, only description was "DMV transaction refund" which may be related to the hybrid tax but also may have been related to the recent Energi registration.

 

And a side note -- several years ago my wife worked for VCU hospital and thus was employed by the Commonwealth of Virginia. She then moved to Los Angeles and got her past paycheck in paper form, went to a Bank of America branch in downtown LA and the teller told her "this says Commonwealth of Virginia, sorry we don't accept foreign checks"...

[murphy]

OT Pop Quiz:

 

Name the other Commonwealths in the USA.

[jeff_h]

OT Pop Quiz:

 

Name the other Commonwealths in the USA.

 

There are 3 others besides mine...

[JATR4]

North Carolina just instituted a $100 electric vehicle tax and a $50 hybrid tax this year.

[acdii]

Good old state of Obama here sure knows how to waste money. Democratic run, no money, in the Red, high taxes, high gas prices, pensions they cant pay for, and some of the crappiest roads around. They already raised our state income tax 50%, we dont need anymore taxes piled on us, they waste it anyway.

[hybridbear]

OT Pop Quiz:

 

Name the other Commonwealths in the USA.

There are 3 others besides mine...

I knew 2 of the other 3 without googling it... can we share the answer yet? Is anyone else going to play the pop quiz game?

[Texasota]

This is a very interesting topic and one that will generate very strong emotional reactions. Nobody likes paying taxes and especially not when they feel they are being singled out for making an automobile choice that is good for the environment, good for energy conservation and good for their own wallet.

 

But...the shrinking gas taxes revenues is a very real problem that our elected officials are grappling with. We already have roads and bridges that are not being maintained and the situation is only getting worse. We don't like paying taxes but we also become enraged when driving on a crumbling road and we don't like crashing into the river because the bridge collapsed (this happened a few years ago in Minneapolis).

 

So what would be a fair way to generate the future tax revenues to maintain our roads and bridges? There are lots of smart and fair minded folks on this forum. What would be your suggestions on how our elected officials should solve this problem in a fair way?

[inco]

I hate the idea of Big Brother watching over us, however you are right in that the problem boils down to less gas taxes being collected. Many reasons why as well. Electrics, hybrids and diesels in some areas. Companies are also building better engines that get better mpgs. And in some cases people are driving less than before and could also be using public transportation.

 

So how do they retain revenues to make it all work?

 

One idea is to tax folks based on miles driven. That would be fair. How to do that is the problem because asking people to track and report might not be a good idea. Too many fudgers!

 

We know about the little black boxes in the world providing surveillance for insurance companies to monitor your driving and set your rates. Maybe that is the solution.

 

Every year when you renew your license you go to the issuing agency and they scan your car for mileage. Then you pony up for what you actually drove. It could be an easy solution.

 

Do this though and you can be sure governments will still want to retain those gas taxes and find a new name for it - the help get us reelected fund or something similar. Politicians are funny that way.

[KLH]

 

There are 3 others besides mine...

I had to look it up. Embarrassingly, I live in one!

[corncobs]

In this case I don't feel bad that I knew 1 for sure, the second 50% and the third I had no clue.

[hybridbear]

I hate the idea of Big Brother watching over us, however you are right in that the problem boils down to less gas taxes being collected. Many reasons why as well. Electrics, hybrids and diesels in some areas. Companies are also building better engines that get better mpgs. And in some cases people are driving less than before and could also be using public transportation.

 

So how do they retain revenues to make it all work?

 

One idea is to tax folks based on miles driven. That would be fair. How to do that is the problem because asking people to track and report might not be a good idea. Too many fudgers!

 

We know about the little black boxes in the world providing surveillance for insurance companies to monitor your driving and set your rates. Maybe that is the solution.

 

Every year when you renew your license you go to the issuing agency and they scan your car for mileage. Then you pony up for what you actually drove. It could be an easy solution.

 

Do this though and you can be sure governments will still want to retain those gas taxes and find a new name for it - the help get us reelected fund or something similar. Politicians are funny that way.

If you're going to do a mileage based tax you'd need to come up with infrastructure to support it. Some states already require periodic inspections and have this infrastructure to check odometer readings. However, what if you drove a road trip and passed through other states. We drove 19,000 miles last year, but only about 9,000 of those miles were in MN. More than half our miles were driven in other states/provinces on our two road trips. We thus paid gas taxes in every state/province where we filled up which helped pay for the roads we used. Another issue is for the states like MN without inspections. How do you check odometers then? MN doesn't even require you to go anywhere to renew your license plates each year. They, in fact, encourage you to do it online or by mail because it allows their staff to be more efficient. So, now what?

 

Gas taxes are a fair solution in that if someone is choosing to buy an alternative fuel vehicle then they're causing less damage to the environment. Perhaps their effect on the pavement isn't substantially different than any other car, but their effect on the atmosphere is...the government gives tax breaks to people who purchases PHEVs and BEVs, and the fact that gas taxes are the primary source of income for each state to repair their roads similarly counts as a "tax-break" to encourage the purchase of alt-fuel vehicles. The toll taken by gas guzzlers on the environment is not sufficiently penalized right now. I think gas taxes should go up substantially to cover the deficit and to further encourage consumers to look at how they can use less gas/diesel. As other fuel sources become prevalent in the transportation sector (natural gas, hydrogen, electricity, etc) then the government should look at how to tax those owners. But don't do it now and discourage people from making a decision that's good for the environment!! Wait until alternate fuel vehicles make up something like 25+% of cars on the road (not new cars sold, but cars actually on the road). Until then, just keep raising gas taxes to cover the short fall and penalize all those suburban soccer moms driving alone in their full size SUVs and penalize all the people who choose to live far away from work and commute long distances every day by themselves clogging up the freeways and polluting in rush hour traffic.

 

Just like how governments often raise taxes on things like cigarettes and other tobacco products because of the negative effect they have on society as a whole, raising gas taxes makes sense because burning gasoline has a negative impact on society as a whole. Every time MN raises cigarette taxes, some people quit smoking. Raising gas taxes would serve to get some people out of their 15 MPG SUV and into a more efficient vehicle. This is a net positive. I'd gladly pay more gas taxes on every tank I buy if it would encourage hybrid/PHEV sales and reduce overall pollution from cars around MN by encouraging ppl to buy efficient cars and conserve gas.

Edited February 8, 2014 by hybridbear

[vangonebuy]

In NYC they massively raised the cigarette taxes. To stop smoking.

Pennsylvania & New Jersey then has a major increase in cigarette sales.

NYC complains on lower revenue with almost $10 a pack tax.

Duh !

 

NY raised the cost of registration for the gas guzzlers vehicles.

Wait, these little hybrids are cheating us out of money too.

The bridge and tunnel fee's have doubled in the last 5 years.

Some tripled.

 

CFL / LED lights must be taxed too. There is a lot of taxes in utility bills.

 

In NY,

A Dollar saved, Is a dollar not taxed.

Are we all your ATM's, Governor?

 

I can only think of 2 Commonwealth's, Without peeking.

[hermans]

Gas tax in Commonwealth of PA was just raised another 9 1/2 cents/gallon. The TP tolls have been raised yet again. My toll from Philli area to the East end of the TP is now $26.00 one way. That's over 12 cents/mile. Highway robbery.

Edited February 8, 2014 by hermans

[inco]

This is fun stuff. Great to see so many ideas and opinions, however I have to side with those expecting higher gasoline taxes - it's the easy way out and if offers fairness to all. Don't like it - don't drive, or buy a more efficient vehicle. :shift: Those folks with all electric cars - Tesla people, would get off Scott free so we will have to do something about them! It's only logical. :runaway:

[Texasota]

I agree with continuing the fed/state gasoline tax for now until the adoption rate of electric and other alternative fuel vehicles becomes so large that another system must be invented. No one has a crystal ball to accurately predict this adoption rate but I think it is a safe bet that petroleum based fuels (gasoline and diesel) will continue to be our mail fuel source for cars/trucks for many years (probably many decades).

 

The gasoline tax is very simple (you pay at the pump), presumably free of fraud and it properly distributes the taxes to the state that you are driving in. As an example, the snowbirds that head south to Texas or Florida in the winter are properly paying the state taxes where they are wintering.

 

Any "big brother" system based on GPS or other technologies will be complicated and will result in equally complicated political systems to redistribute the collected taxes to the states. I can only imagine the squabbling that will result between the states when they try to demand a larger share based on their "special" circumstances (e.g. MN should get more because of the harsh effects of winters on roads). I think this system will be a disaster and very few citizens are comfortable with the government collecting this kind of information on them. It is ripe for abuse.

[acdii]

The problem I have with taxing is that the taxes raised get shuffled off to something that is wasn't destined for. Here in IL, taxes on gas are percentage based, so the more that gas costs, the higher the taxes are on it. The taxes raised go up as the price per gallon goes up, so in the past few years, the price per gallon doubled, so did the taxes, yet, the roads are horrible, and bridges have been closed with no date as to when they will be repaired and reopened. So where do that extra tax money go?

 

 

We already are seeing what a horrible mess the ACA has become, and will just get worse over time, so imagine the fiasco and waste that would occur with a nationwide mileage tax. All for raising taxes on gas, as long as the tax goes to paying for roads! I suppose a meter could be hooked to the charging station for taxing electric cars, after all, you have to have a meter some places when you are self sufficient with solar and wind, so that you pay your fair share of energy tax.

[Texasota]

Here in IL, taxes on gas are percentage based, so the more that gas costs, the higher the taxes are on it. The taxes raised go up as the price per gallon goes up, so in the past few years, the price per gallon doubled, so did the taxes, yet, the roads are horrible, and bridges have been closed with no date as to when they will be repaired and reopened. So where do that extra tax money go?

 

Maybe that is an argument for why the state based gasoline tax is a good system. Each state controls its own destiny by controlling its gasoline tax rate and deciding how to allocate and spend those tax revenues. In my opinion, this is a much better system than mandates and dictates from the federal government. And we all have the freedom to vote with out feet by relocating to a different state.

[vangonebuy]

In my opinion, this is a much better system than mandates and dictates from the federal government. And we all have the freedom to vote with out feet by relocating to a different state.

 

Great point.

States are completely being undermined in their self direction.

Fed regulations alway force the states to go beg to the Fed Govt for their fair share.

 

Fed Govt has proven its inability to drive in 50 directions at the same time.

If S. Carolina has a problem with SC taxes. It should address it in the way best for SC only. Higher tax the gas on I95 stations for example.

 

GPS system can be undermined. Jamming is possible.

Tax on mileage....What if I wasn't in SC at the time. Why pay S. Carolina a tax.

Gas tax is the simpleist solution. Its already in place.

 

Relocation isn't the only choice though. Although, Detroit is an example of where we can end up.

Most NYer's will stop for gas in New Jersey on the way home.

Many shop online and also avoid state sales taxes.

Which is good, It keeps states, and localities taxing under control.

 

 

Its not really a hybrid issue. It's an efficiency issue.

 

With many choices in different cars and a few lightweight trucks coming.

This hybrid tax leaves the new efficient diesels at a advantage.

[jsolan]

Gas tax in Commonwealth of PA was just raised another 9 1/2 cents/gallon. The TP tolls have been raised yet again. My toll from Philli area to the East end of the TP is now $26.00 one way. That's over 12 cents/mile. Highway robbery.

I was all for the gasoline tax increase. We have a number of bridges in my area that were closed because they are deemed unsafe and in desperate need of repair, but no money to do it. I just hope the money from the tax increase actually goes toward fixing infrastructure.

 

The TP on the other hand..... That road is not maintained well enough to justify the rates going up every year like they have been. It's a horrible experience to go from Pitt to Philly or reverse.