It's pretty clear why more hybrids aren't being sold

[KLH]

In regards to the safety rumors I would call this a bunch of BS.

Agreed. I'm just echoing the perceptions of others that have been vocal since I purchased the FFH.

 

At the end, it really does seem that most are turned off by the price premium and lack of over-the-top power. It's a one-two punch that most of America can't seem to digest. Now Nissan, BMW, and Honda tried introducing hybrid cars that had improved power... but all of them were failures. It's round two and the focus is on in-the-car technology and gas mileage.

[acdii]

If people really sat down and figured out how much they are spending to go fast from light to light........

[KLH]

You're so right. I drove my wife's Pilot over the weekend. All I kept thinking was how much wasted fuel was being used: at stops, downhill, and passing people. It's amazing.

 

How's this for a chuckle. I forgot that her Pilot doesn't have ACC. I wondered why the car wasn't slowing down as the car in front got closer and closer...

Edited October 15, 2013 by KLH

[djminfll]

You're so right. I drove my wife's Pilot over the weekend. All I kept thinking was how much wasted fuel was being used: at stops, downhill, and passing people. It's amazing.

 

How's this for a chuckle. I forgot that her Pilot doesn't have ACC. I wondered why the car wasn't slowing down as the car in front got closer and closer...

The same thing happened when I was driving my dad's Prius - it doesn't have ACC, and I was so used to using ACC that I almost rear-ended someone!

[Toz]

You're so right. I drove my wife's Pilot over the weekend. All I kept thinking was how much wasted fuel was being used: at stops, downhill, and passing people. It's amazing.

 

How's this for a chuckle. I forgot that her Pilot doesn't have ACC. I wondered why the car wasn't slowing down as the car in front got closer and closer...

 

And then it hit me..... :shift:

[corncobs]

And then it hit me..... :shift:

Awesome LOL!!!

[dalesky]

Many of my friends do not drive fast or accelerate quickly. They don't want or even notice a larger engine usually.

 

I think for some it is an economic issue, where the money spent on gas just doesn't matter to them. Sure, they are impressed with my Fusion, but they want other vehicles.

 

Maybe if some decent sized SUVs were available as hybrids they would sell. Maybe if the trunk space was not so compromised it would help too.

 

As a country of drivers we are just inculterated to want speed, power, size and more of each of those every year. Can anyone think of any car model that gets smaller, not larger every new model? Not gonna happen is it?

Engine sizes are finally getting smaller and 4 cylinders are becoming a standard. Turbo charge them and the power is impressive. Mileage improvements are starting to be a large factor.

 

A hybrid does not prevent fast starts, tailgating, or speeding. Those are not major reasons why more people won't buy a hybrid.

 

Let gas prices reach European levels and hybrid sales would skyrocket.

Let diesel fuel costs go down to below gasoline and diesels would sell in far greater numbers too.

 

Yes, to some degree a price differential is a factor, but many buyers realize there will be a payback with a hybrid that will result in savings overall if they keep the vehicle long enough.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the issue is very complex, and there are no simple or single answers, but a lot of reasons, depending on individual needs, beliefs and ability to think about what is best for each buyer.

 

The influence of advertising is huge, or manufacturers would not spend the amounts that they do to tell us what we "need"

If we are being honest, how many of the people we know buy a vehicle based on good research, honest need, and with any concern for the planet?

[Eddie Sessum]

I wish I would have known of the infiniti q50 when I got my mkz. I'd be happy with 36mpg to have double the hp

[milleron]

#2 my FFH is not slow I can drive 5 MPH over any speed limit out there ;-)

 

In regards to the safety rumors I would call this a bunch of BS. The HV lines are as far away from any potential cut position as you can get in a car.

I would be more worried that they don't have the rescue cards for the car and don't know where the high strength steel is located before cutting. It's highly unlikely but also unlikely that rescue crews would cut into HV lines.

 

Just ask kuzzi he is the man for such questions.

 

Can you imagine the critics if electric cars were the forerunners of ICE cars?

 

"Who in the world would get into a vehicle that carries TWENTY gallons of one of the most flamable liquids in existence?!? And they don't even put it in a self-sealing tank!!! Can anyone even imagine the conflagration that could result when two of these ill-conceived machines crash into each other?!? Why rescue crews will be afraid to get within 500 yards of these toys of Satan!!!"

 

Just sayin'

[acdii]

I think the two largest factors that drive hybrid sales, Tree huggers and people who drive a lot and doubling the MPG pays off quickly. Driving a hybrid is a compromise of trunk space, availability, and power. The other limiting factor is, oh crap a hybrid, need to get past them they drive so slow.

 

 

I just say to them, not slower, Smarter.

[Ted Swing]

I definitely drive slower since I got the hybrid, but the thing that surprises me is that I don't really get places noticeably later. I guess I'd been speeding up to get to the next stoplight for years without thinking about it.

[milleron]

I accelerate more slowly now. I don't drive more slowly. I threw away my radar detector 20 years ago, when it dawned on me (duh) that I was not saving noticeable amounts of time driving over the speed limit and that it was both safer and more economical to slow it down to that limit. It's so much more pleasant driving when you don't have to panic as you suddenly see Smokey, isn't it?

[jsolan]

Based on my experience, price is the primary factor. People are shocked when I tell them the Fusion Hybrid was only $1800 (MSRP) more than the non-hybrid version. They assume there's a $5k "penalty" for going hybrid and therefore it's not worth it.

Power is somewhat of a factor, but not as much as price for your average consumer. People want a non-prius hybrid that is $25k or less.

The fusion S series is almost there, I have a feeling with the right incentives it will be a huge seller for Ford.

[HenryVIII]

I wish I would have known of the infiniti q50 when I got my mkz. I'd be happy with 36mpg to have double the hp

Same here. I may have purchased a Q50 hybrid. Have power and the fuel efficiency of a compact car? Yes please!

Oh well.

 

Part of the low fuel economy overall of all vehicles sold in the US is that Americans tend to want more power. That power isn't needed except on the rarest of occasions and the rest of the time just ends up wasting gas because the ICE is too large and thus burns more fuel.

 

As was commented in another thread: a 2.0L turbo rated at 250 hp will burn more fuel under high loads than a 3.0L V6 rated at 250 hp. At a low power demand, say the 25 hp or so that's needed to maintain your speed on the freeway the 2.0L turbo will use less gas. That is the justification for smaller turbo engines. But a 2.0L non-turbo rated at 141 hp (the ICE in the FFH) will use even less gas while still providing more than enough power for that situation.

 

Think about this, how often do you use anywhere near the maximum power your engine provides? If you like to floor it for fun then you might quite often, but how often do you really need that much power? Likely never. Even in an emergency maneuver situation you aren't likely to notice the difference between the 188 hp of the hybrid compared to the 240 hp of the 2.0L Ecoboost turbo. Thus, the extra power of the 2.0 Ecoboost is a waste of fuel.

 

This is a pretty valid argument.

 

Let's visit the opposite end of the spectrum. Tesla. Tesla offers different options in battery and electric motor. Take the P85 option. Do you "need" to have a 0-60mph time of 4.2 seconds? Wouldn't the 5.4 second 0-60 mph time of the 65 and 85 kW battery option suffice? After all, all you're doing is "wasting battery charge". Which brings me to my point. It's not all about the numbers. Not everyone is performing calculations, having their budgets on spreadsheets or counting beans. Most people also factor in something that cannot be measured by any mathmatical means, smiles per gallon (or in Tesla's case smiles per charge).

 

Then there's another point that was brought up on the 2G Fusions forum. What's the first car you think of when you hear Hybrid (Besides the FFH over here lol)? The Prius. Not everyone is fond of the Prius. It has gotten a social stigma of being the "evironmentalist's ego show boat of choice" name on it, even if it saves a lot of money for gas for people who just want to maintain a low gas budget. Some people don't wish to be associated with that kind of a stigma. It'll work it's way out, but it's not all about the numbers for a lot of people which is my point.

 

Things will eventually change, Hybrid (and Electric) vehicles will eventually improve even further and we will get better vehicles selections. Thank goodness for choices now!

Edited October 31, 2013 by HenryVIII

[Eddie Sessum]

I read the transmission setup on the q50 hybrid blows.. So I wouldn't have liked it like that... The other day I was trying to merge into traffic and floored with a basically full charge a Toyota minivan taxi was able to cut me off. His van sounded horrible in the process of him being full throttle but I ended up having to pull off and stop because I didn't have enough power to merge. Yea we have more power than a prius and it's good most of the time. But we really could use a little more. And a turbo 4cyl in our cars during normal use wouldn't cause anymore fuel burn as 99% of the time we would be using minimal boost.

[HenryVIII]

I didn't know the transmission setup was bad on the Q50 hybrid. It's an evolving process. In due time it'll get perfected.

[Eddie Sessum]

It has to do with the merge from ice to ev. They said it's brutally hard on motor trend. That car would benefit from the accord hybrid setup. A v6 generator and a huge electric motor.

[HenryVIII]

Or a split AWD setup, V6 FWD or RWD with electric assisted RWD or FWD.

[Eddie Sessum]

Delete

Edited December 25, 2013 by Eddie Sessum

[dalesky]

Same here. I may have purchased a Q50 hybrid. Have power and the fuel efficiency of a compact car? Yes please!

Oh well.

 

 

This is a pretty valid argument.

 

Let's visit the opposite end of the spectrum. Tesla. Tesla offers different options in battery and electric motor. Take the P85 option. Do you "need" to have a 0-60mph time of 4.2 seconds? Wouldn't the 5.4 second 0-60 mph time of the 65 and 85 kW battery option suffice? After all, all you're doing is "wasting battery charge". Which brings me to my point. It's not all about the numbers. Not everyone is performing calculations, having their budgets on spreadsheets or counting beans. Most people also factor in something that cannot be measured by any mathmatical means, smiles per gallon (or in Tesla's case smiles per charge).

 

Then there's another point that was brought up on the 2G Fusions forum. What's the first car you think of when you hear Hybrid (Besides the FFH over here lol)? The Prius. Not everyone is fond of the Prius. It has gotten a social stigma of being the "evironmentalist's ego show boat of choice" name on it, even if it saves a lot of money for gas for people who just want to maintain a low gas budget. Some people don't wish to be associated with that kind of a stigma. It'll work it's way out, but it's not all about the numbers for a lot of people which is my point.

 

Things will eventually change, Hybrid (and Electric) vehicles will eventually improve even further and we will get better vehicles selections. Thank goodness for choices now!

I like both sides of this, and I have a different take on the thought that says Americans tend to want more power. Americans are notoriously easy to sell, meaning that advertising works. Given that truth, do we really want more power, or are we constantly bombarded by ads, test drives, car magazines, Nascar, FI racing, etc. all of which are pushing more power, faster cars, and larger vehicles? SUVs are not getting smaller. None of them.

 

Subaru may be the only car company that is somewhat different.

 

All of the car companies make small cars, hoping that young buyers will start out with those, "graduate" to a larger model, with more power, then eventually buy their luxury brand as they get older. Are any of them really pushing the idea of buying a mid range vehicle and sticking with it? Does the public buy what they need most of the time, or what they think they need, AKA, what they are being told they need? Is it not always cheaper to rent a large vehicle the few times in a year they are actually needed, than drive that larger vehicle year round?

 

As a student of advertising I believe that virtually every product in the US is sold thru whatever partially true, emotional, sometimes completely false idea that advertisers can come up with. Food drugs mattresses houses clothes beer you name it.

 

That certainly applies to cars. How many car ads on TV DON'T show hard, fast, empty street driving? Is that even close to reality? Aren't we being sold the idea of larger, faster, more powerful, luxury, freedom, and all the rest? Who really drives around in circles at high speed in the desert and then slams to a stop sliding sideways next to another car?

Advertisers are master manipulators, and we we as a people are easily mislead.

[acdii]

That pretty much sums it up. It's all in the advertising. If you look at the Ford commercials, something I really bitched about, they dont really sell the car, but when I see a Toyota commercial with all the safety advantages on their cars, it is plain to see what people will be looking at when car shopping. Hey did you see Toyota has these neat safety features? Even though Ford has them all and more, they dont advertise that fact to consumers, instead they show a brief view of a white Fusion, then some moron who forgot to put the nuts on his pool and it collapses. Um, forgive me, but what the hell does that have to do with the car Ford is trying to sell?

 

I have to give them credit for their Christmas commercials, very well made in that they discuss the car features and not take a disjointed twist. We dont need more power in our cars, there are these things called speed limits(that aren't really enforced), and we dont have an Autobahn like in Germany. I find the power in the HyTi to be more than adequate.

 

The reality of it all is that $4 gas doesn't impact most people, they will still waste it because they want to drive fast!

[Texasota]

Saw this article this morning and found it interesting. What caught my eye is that Ford says that it has sold 600,000 cars and 80,000 of those are "hybrid electrics". If my math is correct that works out to about 13.3% of Ford’s auto sales are "hybrid electrics". If that is true, then that strikes me as a very impressive number and way higher than I would have guessed.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-blows-own-horn-retail-145020026.html

[hybridbear]

Saw this article this morning and found it interesting. What caught my eye is that Ford says that it has sold 600,000 cars and 80,000 of those are "hybrid electrics". If my math is correct that works out to about 13.3% of Ford’s auto sales are "hybrid electrics". If that is true, then that strikes me as a very impressive number and way higher than I would have guessed.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-blows-own-horn-retail-145020026.html

I pulled up the Nov hybridcars.com dashboard and it looks like the FFH, Fusion Energi, C-Max Hybrid & C-Max Energi will combine for 80,000 sales this year. In comparison Toyota will sell about 150,000 Prius liftbacks, and about 75,000 Prius C & Prius V models giving the Prius family 225,000 sales in calendar 2013. The TCH is on pace to sell about 45,000 units, outpacing the FFH's 38,000 or so units. The Fusion is on pace to sell just under 300,000 units which means that you're correct that well more than 10% of all Fusions sold are hybrids/PHEVs. Toyota is on pace to sell just over 400,000 Camrys which means they also have just over 10% of Camry sales coming from the hybrids.

 

Overall, hybrids still make up less than 5% of the market since automakers also sell huge volumes of trucks, vans, SUVs and compacts/large sedans. Ford's 600,000 cars likely includes the Fusion, C-Max, Taurus, Focus & Fiesta sales in 2013. It is quite impressive to see more than 10% of their cars being hybrids. Hopefully soon that number will be 50%. Once hybrids become that ubiquitous then we'll see them gain more traction.

[Waldo]

The reason more hybrids aren't sold has nothing to do with advertising or consumer demand. It's all about the industry capacity to produce the hybrid parts. Ford would love to sell more hybrids, they just can't get enough of the parts to build them.

[dalesky]

The reason more hybrids aren't sold has nothing to do with advertising or consumer demand. It's all about the industry capacity to produce the hybrid parts. Ford would love to sell more hybrids, they just can't get enough of the parts to build them.

Just wondering where your info comes from. Thanks