New Electrical Issue - Hill Assist? Driver Error?

[Barsoom]

I'm trusting ETIS more than others, because it's also been accurate regarding outstanding field service actions.

 

My car also shows "Less Rear Seat Belts," but it also shows "2nd Row Seat 60/40 (3 P) - Folding" and "Rear Centre Armrest With Cupholder." This leads me to believe that the rear seat configuration is not standard and comes with its own seat belt arrangement, so the standard seat belts are removed?

[hybridbear]

The car definitely has a system to keep it from rolling backward down hills. I see it in action often. When I stop at a traffic light uphill I don't put my foot on any pedal and the car goes neither forward nor backward. I've also used it after parking on a hill. Step on brake, turn off parking brake, shift into drive, take foot off brake and the car doesn't move. If the hill is really steep I've found it to roll back a little before the computer catches it, but perhaps only 2 or 3 inches back.

[GrySql]

The car definitely has a system to keep it from rolling backward down hills.

Is the eCVT just the mastermind in not rolling back or do we really have the much discussed Hill Start Assist (if equipped)?

When my PCM sends a signal to alert me that it isn't working I tend to think I have it, but how to verify it?

 

Looking at my Etis Vehicle Summary>Minor Features it says that my car is: >Less Hill Launch Assist.

Hill Launch Assist? Launch? We're talking about Hill Start Assist here, maybe using the word 'Launch' is the Euro version of 'Start'.

 

Okay, so I know I don't have Hill Launch Assist, but is that the same as what we're discussing?

I'm back to being perplexed... :)

[hybridbear]

Is the eCVT just the mastermind in not rolling back or do we really have the much discussed Hill Start Assist (if equipped)?

When my PCM sends a signal to alert me that it isn't working I tend to think I have it, but how to verify it?

 

Looking at my Etis Vehicle Summary>Minor Features it says that my car is: >Less Hill Launch Assist.

Hill Launch Assist? Launch? We're talking about Hill Start Assist here, maybe using the word 'Launch' is the Euro version of 'Start'.

 

Okay, so I know I don't have Hill Launch Assist, but is that the same as what we're discussing?

I'm back to being perplexed... :)

In regular gas cars there's something called "idle creep" which decribes how the car creeps forward when in drive if you aren't stepping on any pedal. In our hybrids we have this feature too because Ford programmed it in to make our hybrids behave like gas cars. In the Tesla Model S you can turn this on or off depending on what your preference is. In a regular gas car when you stop on a hill and take your foot off the brake it will likely roll forward slightly if the idle creep is strong enough to overcome the hill or roll backward slightly if the hill is too steep. We've found in our FFH that no matter what the angle of the hill our car doesn't roll forward and doesn't roll backward. This indicates that the computer is adjusting to the hill and applying the exact amount of force to keep the car steady. This is Hill Start Assist in action.

 

Here's my guess on the ETIS info...some gas only cars now include a similar feature to keep the car from rolling down hills. Ford maybe calls that Hill Lauch Assist. Since our cars are hybrids they have to put a different system in to keep our cars from rolling backward down a hill and thus ETIS says "Less Hill Launch Assist" but we do have Hill Start Assist and I've seen in action that we do have this feature.

[GrySql]

I've also parked on a few steep hills and I am in agreement that the car knows just what to do, it's easy, it's intuitive and it works.

I'd never heard that feature described as "idle creep" because what our cars do is different.

I'll leave it at that, thanks for the explanation.

[keybman]

But the loss of power this time leads me to my current working theory…Traction Control System. According to the OM, if the “vehicle begins to slide, the system applies the brakes to individual wheels and, when needed, reduces engine power at the same time.” This accurately describes what I was experiencing. And going through the Engineering Test Mode, I was able to identify the 2 of the lights that remained illuminated for my short lunch drive – Stability Control and Stability Control Off lights. Either through the driving conditions at the time (downhill out of the parking lot exit while turning) or through an overheated 12V battery causing things to go on the fritz - this system was both activated for the initial 2 blocks, then turned off. And if I add to this your supposition that my subsequent lunch drive allowed the 12V to charge and then cool, then perhaps this mystery is solved.

 

 

So, now that the ETIS/Hill Launch Assist discussion has subsided, what about the "Traction Control System" operation (OM, pgs 182-3) for my particular experience? The OM description of how this operates, describes "to a T" how my car responded that day. Is it reasonable to assume that this is what happened? Others here have shared similar occurences and/or knowledge (thank you acdii, terryb, GrySql, hybridbear!) which would lead me to believe that this seems likely in my case.

 

Any affirmation?

[GrySql]

 

So, now that the ETIS/Hill Launch Assist discussion has subsided, what about the "Traction Control System" operation (OM, pgs 182-3) for my particular experience? The OM description of how this operates, describes "to a T" how my car responded that day. Is it reasonable to assume that this is what happened? Others here have shared similar occurences and/or knowledge (thank you acdii, terryb, GrySql, hybridbear!) which would lead me to believe that this seems likely in my case.

 

Any affirmation?

A loss of power seems more like the Traction Control is compensating for a road condition, but that should be an instantaneous controlled condition and feel seamless, not a prolonged 'loss of power'. My FFH did not drive any different when I experienced the 'Loss of Traction Control' Warning.

My Mustang also has a Traction Control feature and the return to normal power is in seconds, not blocks.

 

Elsewhere on this forum it has been mentioned that a discharged LVB can cause spurious Alert Warnings or other malfunctions.

Consider that the car has to re-learn the driver's habits if that LVB is disconnected, for up to 500 miles.

In addition, the system may not re-set immediately when the LVB is low.

Similar to other Alerts/Warnings, the system may only re-set after certain 'drive cycles' if the problem has ceased and the system has returned to normal (with the Alert no longer being sent by the car's computer.)

 

I mention re-set drive cycles in this post ,regarding the Check Fuel Fill Inlet Alert.

"It may take several driving cycles for the Check Fuel Fill Inlet message to turn off. A driving cycle consists of an engine start-up (after four or more hours with the engine off) followed by city/highway driving. "

[acdii]

In regular gas cars there's something called "idle creep" which decribes how the car creeps forward when in drive if you aren't stepping on any pedal. In our hybrids we have this feature too because Ford programmed it in to make our hybrids behave like gas cars. In the Tesla Model S you can turn this on or off depending on what your preference is. In a regular gas car when you stop on a hill and take your foot off the brake it will likely roll forward slightly if the idle creep is strong enough to overcome the hill or roll backward slightly if the hill is too steep. We've found in our FFH that no matter what the angle of the hill our car doesn't roll forward and doesn't roll backward. This indicates that the computer is adjusting to the hill and applying the exact amount of force to keep the car steady. This is Hill Start Assist in action.

 

Here's my guess on the ETIS info...some gas only cars now include a similar feature to keep the car from rolling down hills. Ford maybe calls that Hill Lauch Assist. Since our cars are hybrids they have to put a different system in to keep our cars from rolling backward down a hill and thus ETIS says "Less Hill Launch Assist" but we do have Hill Start Assist and I've seen in action that we do have this feature.

Since the hybrids use a totally different system as a transmission, and the electric motors are essentially connected to the wheels, and the trans is all electric, my theory is that the motor senses movement when in a neutral position such as when stopped and no forward or reverse motion is called for by the throttle, so when it detects movement in one direction or the other that isn't called for, it will apply opposite energy to hold it in place. In a way acts as a stepper motor when it believes it is stopped. Either that or it applies forward energy when in drive the moment you release the brake, and since its main purpose at that point is to move forward, if it senses opposite direction it will apply more energy to prevent the reverse direction.

 

In either case, since the Hybrid uses electric assist for this, the gas version of hill start/launch assist doesn't apply since it uses a different system altogether, I think similar to what Subaru uses by pocking the front calipers at certain angles when full braking is applied, then released when throttle is applied and forward motion is detected. Subahu used a mechanical configuration for this and it broke frequently unless properly maintained, Ford uses an electronic version using the anti-lock system and throttle.

[FusionConfused]

Here we are Feb 2022... my 2014 for Eco boost 2.5 is now doing this.. 2nd time since I've had this car that I drove in snow and it did it last time! Sat let it run went hoke after work 20° but feel like 2! Icy less then 2 in of snow and bam the lights come on alarms chiming in and the cars pulling to one side and not driving right. After I stop a couple places and start again it just goes away like nope ok now the hill assist and track is fine! What I'm in Kansas what hill am I going on? ?

[MeeLee]

I came in late in the conversation, but sometimes having the car in ECO mode, forces it to ride on the electric motor, until you press the throttle in much deeper.

Error codes seem to happen due to a low battery, and usually turning off the car, and turning it on again, is enough to have the main high voltage battery add some charge to the 12V for the minutes that it's on, for it to start the car just fine (without error codes).

 

My car mainly seems to turn the 'brakes' light on, and sometimes regenerative braking doesn't work (actually drains the battery rather than charges it) and the sensor for parking brake release doesn't work, so I'd manually have to press the brake, before turning off the parking brake. The brake light remains on, until I restart the car, and if I don't drive it for 2 days in a row, same thing happens.