I really need advice about gas mileage..videos attached

[neod192]

Here is a snapshot of what the instant MPG should look like on a level road at 65 MPH after maybe 5 min on the interstate.

 

You can see (or you don't) the up or down arrow meaning there is no charging or discharging going on and the HVB is a state of relaxation. ;-)

 

Have seen the MPG as high as 60 on this particular stretch but it most likely depends on the wind direction at the given day.

Hmm, I don't think my car ever does that ! It's either charging or discharging and the instant MPG is around 40 (or just below that). There's one highway where it'll charge and the instant MPG is closer to city, but it feels like it's downhill.

[hybridbear]

I noticed too that before you took off the ICE was running but that was after you reset your MPGs. Any time with the ICE idling is very hard on MPGs.

 

Also, brake score - if your Lifetime Brake Score were 99% like ours is you would have gotten about 20 more regen miles. Based on 20 more regen miles leading to 20 more miles on the odometer with 0 fuel consumed you would have a Lifetime Avg Fuel Economy of about 34.1 MPG. Improving your braking is worth almost .5 MPG.

 

Another note is to try to keep more consistent throttle pressure. It seems like you're constantly on & off the gas pedal and constantly varying your pressure on the pedal. Keeping consistent steady pressure and making smooth & gentle changes to throttle pressure will really help you MPGs too. I'd guess that the rapid movements on and off the gas pedal is a big contributor to your low MPGs.

 

I'd like to make a video of some of my trips that get 55+ MPG but I don't have a good way to hold the iPhone camera and it isn't safe (or legal) to hold it in my right hand the whole time I'm driving. Does anyone have any ideas of how I could temporarily mount it to take a video to help?

[gadgetguy]

I noticed too that before you took off the ICE was running but that was after you reset your MPGs. Any time with the ICE idling is very hard on MPGs.

 

Also, brake score - if your Lifetime Brake Score were 99% like ours is you would have gotten about 20 more regen miles. Based on 20 more regen miles leading to 20 more miles on the odometer with 0 fuel consumed you would have a Lifetime Avg Fuel Economy of about 34.1 MPG. Improving your braking is worth almost .5 MPG.

 

Another note is to try to keep more consistent throttle pressure. It seems like you're constantly on & off the gas pedal and constantly varying your pressure on the pedal. Keeping consistent steady pressure and making smooth & gentle changes to throttle pressure will really help you MPGs too. I'd guess that the rapid movements on and off the gas pedal is a big contributor to your low MPGs.

 

I'd like to make a video of some of my trips that get 55+ MPG but I don't have a good way to hold the iPhone camera and it isn't safe (or legal) to hold it in my right hand the whole time I'm driving. Does anyone have any ideas of how I could temporarily mount it to take a video to help?

 

Strap it to your forehead hahaha....

[corncobs]

I bought one o these during our trip so our son could watch scooby doo!

 

http://mobile.walmart.com/m/phoenix;jsessionid=681ED91D43309E288E0EBAA7D5DB3D66#ip/Phone-Holder-with-Dash-Windshield-Mount-Black/24548844?type=search

 

It works very well and the arm is flexible but yet sturdy. It should also be long enough to mount on the windshield facing down to the dash.

I was gonna try it this morning but should have done it before driving off.

Edited July 3, 2013 by corncobs

[corncobs]

Hmm, I don't think my car ever does that ! It's either charging or discharging and the instant MPG is around 40 (or just below that). There's one highway where it'll charge and the instant MPG is closer to city, but it feels like it's downhill.

 

It's a rare state no question and very short too. I guess I just got lucky taking the pic. In order to get to a higher instant MPG display the conditions have to be perfect with a long level stretch and no change in speed at all.

[B25Nut]

As everyone has said, the battery being constantly below 50% SOC appears to be the primary problem. Several here may disagree with me on this, but I think you should do your learning with Engage, not Empower. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to use the Cruise Control at lower speeds. If the SOC is below 50%, accelerate faster and keep it at a higher speed (even in city driving) so that the ICE stays engaged (except when coasting or braking) to get the SOC above 70% before going into EV.

Your braking score is still averaging 80%, which doesn't help either. This advise should probably be taken with a grain of salt, however, since I still only average 37.5 mpg.

Edited July 3, 2013 by B25Nut

[thavil]

clummus - I apologize if you have mentioned this in any of your other threads about your mileage issue. Are your manual mpg calculations adding up to what your car is displaying? It probably is but just wanted to ask.

[jeff_h]

Your braking score is still averaging 80%

 

I think a brake score of 80% needs to be improved to help the MPG improve. My wife is a Lucy Leadfoot who has two actions... GO.... and then STOP. She says she tries to drive smoothly but when I ride along it's just not as smooth as she thinks. Now she has her Energi where the mobile app logs each trip to include braking score, and hers are normally about 85-90 (an improvement) and mine are normally 98-100% since I try to be smooth. So maybe you are not driving as smoothly as you think you are, as evidenced by the 80%? There was a post from a while back about going to a neighborhood with no traffic and doing some braking tests with varying lead times for braking and checking your brake score - did you do that? The lower the brake score is the less amount of energy that is put back into the HVB that would keep things in EV more at the slower speeds and yield better MPG.

[clummus]

I am posting a video.the.EV never kicked on, even though the SOC was high and eco cruise was on..

https://plus.google.com/112206056754133407632/posts/gFfvwe2BXeN

[hybridbear]

I am posting a video.the.EV never kicked on, even though the SOC was high and eco cruise was on..

At higher speeds like that you don't want the car to go into EV Mode. Ford designed it to go up to 62 MPH in EV Mode for the EPA Tests. The fact that the car does this actually HURTS real world gas mileage. Notice how your instant MPGs were mostly above 40 MPG once you got the SOC high? That's what the car is supposed to do and staying with the ICE on will return better MPGs than cycling in and out of EV Mode. This car does great at about 65 MPH. At 65 MPH it'll get at least 45 MPG average depending on the terrain and winds. Read the section "Driving in EV Mode" in this thread. That should help you understand

Edited July 6, 2013 by hybridbear

[corncobs]

That the car doesn't go into EV mode is in deed a bit strange especially at a speed set to 57 MPH. "BUT" On the other hand it could also be that the road wasn't quite as flat as you thought it was. IMO that's also supported by the 38 MPG you are getting not bad I would say but (at least for me anyway) an indicator you went slightly uphill. You can see the EV mode supporting the ICE for short periods and if the computer feels like you are going "uphill" the EV mode will not kick in.

 

Now if you would cancel the CC the car will go into EV because the power demand is gone. The Engage is all nice and informative but it doesn't show you how much energy you can get out of the HVB once EV has kicked in.

Now if you would try that again with a nice SOC like you showed flip to the Empower screen and stay in EV as best as you can without CC.

 

I think you will notice that it doesn't need much to go above the threshold forcing the ICE back on. The throttle as very very sensitive and one major factor for good MPG in the FFH is constant driving / throttle position.

 

It be an odd question but what kinda shoes are you wearing?

 

Edit:

I also agree with HB you are better of driving faster than 62 MPH so the ICE doesn't kick in an the SOC stays high in order to avoid charging duty for the ICE

Edited July 6, 2013 by corncobs

[MXGOLF]

I have the same problem as you Clummus from day one. Even with the great summer weather my FFH is not getting really any better. I have always thought it was bad batteries but the dealer says no. It's all me they say not the car. :( I too would have bought a gas FF if I had known what I know now. Actually I would not have bought a ford to tell you the truth. I too just want to enjoy my car but really can't due to trying and squeeze out the best mileage possible. It sucks.

[clummus]

MXGOLF I hate that we both have the same problem. I'm thinking.I'm going to just drive it. if I only get 33 mpg , which is what I got today, I'll just live with it. mine is definitely not an early build, so I'm confused about that. I guess a few lemons still get by. sigh....

Edited July 9, 2013 by clummus

[MXGOLF]

I still think it's the batteries but can't prove it and Ford doesn't want to prove it. I am at 34.2 lifetime for 6 months of driving. Not the 47 I was expecting. The gas only one will probably get close to that. If it was getting over 40 I would be happy. That's a big difference like 1/3 less mpg then advertised. I would have figured being in Texas you would be getting great mileage like definitely over 40 anyway.

[keybman]

I still think it's the batteries but can't prove it and Ford doesn't want to prove it. I am at 34.2 lifetime for 6 months of driving. Not the 47 I was expecting. The gas only one will probably get close to that. If it was getting over 40 I would be happy. That's a big difference like 1/3 less mpg then advertised. I would have figured being in Texas you would be getting great mileage like definitely over 40 anyway.

 

I have a hard time understanding why Ford WOULDN'T change out the battery. It is not a particular pricey item, is a known problem (and not just for FFHs) and if it changes the owner's experience positively, then why not?!!

 

I can not definitively point to my battery change-out as the sole reason for my increased MPG, but my 12V battery was replaced on 2-13-13. I was getting 40-43 MPG up to that point and learning how to drive a hybrid. After 2-13-13, my average jumped to 48-51 MPG per tank. I'm sure I was still learning, the "break-in period" was about then, and more moderate weather was occurring...but, I cannot escape the fact that Ford replaced the battery on my FFH on that date, and the MPG have been better ever since. It seems like it has to be a factor.

 

To me, it seems like a "no-brainer" to at least try to satisfy the customer who is having obvious issues. Why not "try" changing the battery - if nothing else but to rule out the battery as being "the issue"? Are you listening, Ford?

[keithsm2]

i think most people think the HV Battery is the problem...not necessarily the 12V battery ( when it comes to mileage ). I know some 12V have been bad also....but shouldnt affect mileage that i know of.

[keybman]

i do not know the mechanics of how that would or would not affect, I am just sharing my experience - and there seems to be a plausible (or possible) connection, based on the circumstances. You may be right and, as I pointed out, there certainly are other factors involved. But, based on anecdotal evidence, why is the answer that many owners receive first is "There's nothing wrong. Go drive better."? That is really the basis of my comments. There is a definite opportunity for improvement of Ford customer service and reputation-building.

[acdii]

I can tell you without a doubt some of these cars do have a flaw that prevents them from achieving the rated MPG. Whether or not its the HVB, the Regen system or a flawed master computer is still unknown. When you consider that I had a Job1 SE FFH that no matter how hard I tried, I could not get consistent MPG in it, regardless of the temperature or roads. Now that I have a Job2 build and have not had any problems getting decent MPG in it, and have driven it under the same conditions as the first one with results exactly where I expected them to be, that just confirms it to me that there was an issue with the first car.

 

I am not done with Ford yet. Once the cold weather hits and I am driving this one under the same weather conditions and still getting decent MPG, I will be contacting Ford and raise a stink, because I was right and they were wrong.

 

If by any chance it can help others who had this same problem I had, well I will do what I can.

[corncobs]

i do not know the mechanics of how that would or would not affect, I am just sharing my experience - and there seems to be a plausible (or possible) connection, based on the circumstances. You may be right and, as I pointed out, there certainly are other factors involved. But, based on anecdotal evidence, why is the answer that many owners receive first is "There's nothing wrong. Go drive better."? That is really the basis of my comments. There is a definite opportunity for improvement of Ford customer service and reputation-building.

I would guess that most people at Ford (dealer) never drove the FFH to its maximum capabilities and don't have a good idea or plan of "teaching" new owners.

[DeeCee]

There are definitely a few under performing FFH cars (not drivers) out there. I just don't understand why Ford refuses to figure out what the real problem is.

[kuzzi]

i do not know the mechanics of how that would or would not affect, I am just sharing my experience - and there seems to be a plausible (or possible) connection, based on the circumstances. You may be right and, as I pointed out, there certainly are other factors involved. But, based on anecdotal evidence, why is the answer that many owners receive first is "There's nothing wrong. Go drive better."? That is really the basis of my comments. There is a definite opportunity for improvement of Ford customer service and reputation-building.

You might be onto something here. A poor quality or malfunctioning 12V battery would cause more resistance in the charging system. It would be wasting the energy. The computer may redirect a good portion of the energy meant for the HVB pack to the 12V if this were the case since the 12V is critical to starting the vehicle (not the ICE, but the initial electronics/diagnostics). I doubt the difference is enough to cover the 7-ish mpg difference you had.

 

Anyone with underwhelming mpgs willing to drop $150 on a top-brand 12V battery or swap with another vehicle in the garage to test this?

 

Oh, and make sure the leads on the 12V are nice and snug. There are so many electrical issues coming from the Harley Sportster world due to loose battery connections.

Edited July 12, 2013 by kuzzi