How long was YOUR break in period?

[hybridbear]

I don't remember ever having a huge break-in period in my car. I'd like to see some kind of chart on people with the 17" wheels and 18" wheels and the difference in MPG. I average around 42.3 mpg lifetime with my 18" wheels. I can get 50+ on my way home from work through the city, but that's when the weather is warm enough. In this cold it's almost impossible, unless I keep the heat totally off which I have done because of the chemical smell in my hvac.

I assume your new car has all of the software updates.

Yes, it has all the updates.

 

I sure hope there will be a 10 MPG improvement in our MPGs due to "break-in". If this car underperforms the black one by 10 MPG consistently then I'd rather have the black one back with all its issues.

[Riggo]

Yes, it has all the updates.

 

I sure hope there will be a 10 MPG improvement in our MPGs due to "break-in". If this car underperforms the black one by 10 MPG consistently then I'd rather have the black one back with all its issues.

 

Uh oh. The grass is always greener isn't it :gaah:

[acdii]

Did you try a hard reset and retrain it? You didn't mention how many miles were on it when you got it. Mine had 3, and first trip in it got 47 MPG. That is with the 18" rims.

[hybridbear]

Did you try a hard reset and retrain it? You didn't mention how many miles were on it when you got it. Mine had 3, and first trip in it got 47 MPG. That is with the 18" rims.

I haven't done the hard reset. It had about 210 miles on it when we got it.

 

A couple things I've noticed with the ScanGauge are:

• This ICE is noticeably quieter - while in the old one I could always hear when the ICE was on I can't always tell in this one and find myself looking down at the dash to see if the ICE is on and charging the HVB when that's what I want the car to do and looking to see if the ICE shut off so I can cruise in EV mode when that's what I want to do
• It revs less for the same HP output showing a higher LOD - the old one wouldn't show a LOD above 90 unless the power output was over 40 HP, this one quite often shows the LOD as 93-94 with the power output in the mid-30s HP

I'll be driving down to Owatonna tomorrow for work so I'll hopefully get to see more of how it does on the interstate on a longer drive. However, speeds might be limited as it's supposed to rain & snow tomorrow. I'm also going to Owatonna on Thursday when the temp is supposed to be in the single digits so it'll be interesting to see how it does then.

Edited December 2, 2013 by hybridbear

[hybridbear]

Based on my results driving down this morning I continue to see about 20% lower MPG in this car compared to the black one. I sure hope this goes away soon!

[B25Nut]

Based on my results driving down this morning I continue to see about 20% lower MPG in this car compared to the black one. I sure hope this goes away soon!

HB, we're telling newcomers like Richard that the FFH needs a break-in period and it takes the car a while to learn your driving habits. That's what I experienced. Where's your patience? I'm sure you'll be in the 50s again, but the cold weather won't help. For now, just enjoy all the extra goodies you have with Snow Queen.

[hybridbear]

HB, we're telling newcomers like Richard that the FFH needs a break-in period and it takes the car a while to learn your driving habits. That's what I experienced. Where's your patience? I'm sure you'll be in the 50s again, but the cold weather won't help. For now, just enjoy all the extra goodies you have with Snow Queen.

I know. We didn't have any facts about "break-in" before though, and this is a lot more than I expected to see for break-in.

[hybridbear]

Yesterday I brought the white FFH in for them to fix the trunk alignment. While they were fixing it they gave me our old black FFH to drive. More evidence of break in...the ambient temp was between 0 & 7 above yesterday when I was driving and the black FFH got about 3 MPG better than our white one driving the exact same route to/from the dealer. Our white FFH is up to 1600 miles now so the tires should be breaking in and it should be improving.

[GrySql]

Mine took 16k miles and a PCM update with a 100% SOC Hard Reset. It's doing as well as it ever will and in general is a lovely vehicle.

I haven't been in to see my Dealer since the PCM and MFT update, a long time.

Knock on wood.....

[rjent]

My HiTy has always given me over 40 off the lot (with 8 miles on the clock). In fact my trip home (150 miles) returned 47 on the button. With that said, after the update, we saw an improvement, but at 10000 miles, the car just "came alive" in efficiency. We now see regular 48 to 50 where we saw 42 to 44 regularly. I think the breakin period has many factors. For one thing (and I am studying this with authentic Ford manuals and will report as I glean what I am trying to learn) I think the variable transmission needs a period of time for the belt system to become efficient. Anyhoo, I saw a big jump at 10000 miles. What ever that is worth..... :)

[hybridbear]

My HiTy has always given me over 40 off the lot (with 8 miles on the clock). In fact my trip home (150 miles) returned 47 on the button. With that said, after the update, we saw an improvement, but at 10000 miles, the car just "came alive" in efficiency. We now see regular 48 to 50 where we saw 42 to 44 regularly. I think the breakin period has many factors. For one thing (and I am studying this with authentic Ford manuals and will report as I glean what I am trying to learn) I think the variable transmission needs a period of time for the belt system to become efficient. Anyhoo, I saw a big jump at 10000 miles. What ever that is worth..... :)

What belt system?

[rjent]

What belt system?

I was told by the service manager at my dealership that although the confusion of the planet gear and motors there is still a variable sheave "belt" system in this transmission. I am a trained transmission tech (though dormant for many years) and I am studying this beast starting with the clutch and motors. I am told I will have access to the exploded view (don't know if I will be able to get pictures or printouts yet due to proprietary reasons)

 

Now with all of that said, it wouldn't be a "variable" transmission if only one set of planets exits (which can't change their ratio even if they wanted to). There is a lot of controversy over this transmission and absolutely nothing online about it other than seemingly controlled releases. I hope to have my own curiosity taken care of soon. They are 150 miles away so I can't just run in on a whim and see their manuals. I almost got remote log in permissions, but that seems to have fallen through. If I am allowed to, I will let everyone know what I find.

 

From where I stand right now, seeing how the engine responds to hills, deceleration, acceleration, in RPM and obvious power multiplication through a "ratio" system of some sort (and I have worked with variable sheave transmissions before) there has to be a "belt" and pulley process going on.

 

Anyway, I may be wrong .... but seldom are :hysterical:

[hybridbear]

I was told by the service manager at my dealership that although the confusion of the planet gear and motors there is still a variable sheave "belt" system in this transmission. I am a trained transmission tech (though dormant for many years) and I am studying this beast starting with the clutch and motors. I am told I will have access to the exploded view (don't know if I will be able to get pictures or printouts yet due to proprietary reasons)

 

Now with all of that said, it wouldn't be a "variable" transmission if only one set of planets exits (which can't change their ratio even if they wanted to). There is a lot of controversy over this transmission and absolutely nothing online about it other than seemingly controlled releases. I hope to have my own curiosity taken care of soon. They are 150 miles away so I can't just run in on a whim and see their manuals. I almost got remote log in permissions, but that seems to have fallen through. If I am allowed to, I will let everyone know what I find.

 

From where I stand right now, seeing how the engine responds to hills, deceleration, acceleration, in RPM and obvious power multiplication through a "ratio" system of some sort (and I have worked with variable sheave transmissions before) there has to be a "belt" and pulley process going on.

 

Anyway, I may be wrong .... but seldom are :hysterical:

Check out this thread then: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/6775-what-is-an-ecvt-how-does-it-work-here-is-the-answer/

[lolder]

There are no sheaves or belts anywhere in the car. The service managers statement is the crux of most of the problems; they don't know the car. Years ago Ford had a CVT that had variable sheaves but none of the Ford/Toyota type eCVT hybrids do.

With planetary gears, the TORQUE transfer is fixed by the physical dimensions of the gear. The speed of the parts is controlled by varying the torque on the sun gear connected MG2 so the power spit ( speed X torque ) is infinitely variable.

I see someone's coming out with a 9 speed automatic. They're getting closer to the ideal which we already have.

Edited January 19, 2014 by lolder

[rjent]

There are no sheaves or belts anywhere in the car. The service managers statement is the crux of most of the problems; they don't know the car. Years ago Ford had a CVT that had variable sheaves but none of the Ford/Toyota type eCVT hybrids do.

With planetary gears, the TORQUE transfer is fixed by the physical dimensions of the gear. The speed of the parts is controlled by varying the torque on the sun gear connected MG2 so the power spit ( speed X torque ) is infinitely variable.

I see someone's coming out with a 9 speed automatic. They're getting closer to the ideal which we already have.

Sounds very interesting. Do you have a technical discussion you can send me to? I have read a lot on this transmission, below is one of the disscussions which somewhat support your argument, but there are a few concepts that fly in the face of the idea of only one planet gear set. To wit:

 

 

Many hybrids utilize CVTs rather than a traditional step transmission because they offer an infinite number of gear ratios, therefore offering optimized fuel economy in most situations.

 

The electrified CVT replaces the pulleys with motors, one of which is connected to the wheels and the other to a planetary gear set. The gear set has three connections, one to the engine, one to the wheels and one to a second electric motor, called a generator motor.

 

“Because of this unique (setup), we can form a unique planetary arrangement,” Kozarekar says. “We can change the (electric) motor speed and choose any speed we want to operate the engine.”

 

The great degree of flexibility enables the engine and transmission to run at the most efficient points because the control software can choose the optimal electric motor and gear ratio combinations.

The gear ratios could be theoretical or this could be talking about how the transmission is controlled through a variable "ratio". What ever it is, it works.

 

If this transmission is beltless, what an advancement! Personally I love the infinite ratio feel of the power train.

 

I cut my teeth on the horsepower/torque discussion starting in the 60's, and have built some real fire breather cars over the decades. We all know (or should) that Horsepower is a way of measuring torque over time. The torque times RPM is the way we calculate horsepower. Now we all also know that an engine/electric motor needs a "gear reduction" of some kind to provide the multiplication of that torque (to get the RPM up) to provide adequate power to the wheels. Our Electric motor in the Fusion produces a tremendous amount of torque at zero RPM's but that doesn't translate into performance.

 

I really wish someone would finally come up with a source of true technical discussion of this transmission that explains the theory of operation. So far I have only seen coffee house discussion with not much tech to back it up.

 

Personally, I hope it is beltless :)

[acdii]

Have you looked at the PDF linked in one of the sticky threads? It diagrams how the transmissions work in the 13 Hybrids. Pretty interesting reads, and explains how the power from the ICE and electric motors is distributed.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7913-general-info-for-ffh-techies/?p=70255

Edited January 20, 2014 by acdii

[hybridbear]

Sounds very interesting. Do you have a technical discussion you can send me to? I have read a lot on this transmission, below is one of the disscussions which somewhat support your argument, but there are a few concepts that fly in the face of the idea of only one planet gear set. To wit:

The gear ratios could be theoretical or this could be talking about how the transmission is controlled through a variable "ratio". What ever it is, it works.

 

If this transmission is beltless, what an advancement! Personally I love the infinite ratio feel of the power train.

 

I cut my teeth on the horsepower/torque discussion starting in the 60's, and have built some real fire breather cars over the decades. We all know (or should) that Horsepower is a way of measuring torque over time. The torque times RPM is the way we calculate horsepower. Now we all also know that an engine/electric motor needs a "gear reduction" of some kind to provide the multiplication of that torque (to get the RPM up) to provide adequate power to the wheels. Our Electric motor in the Fusion produces a tremendous amount of torque at zero RPM's but that doesn't translate into performance.

 

I really wish someone would finally come up with a source of true technical discussion of this transmission that explains the theory of operation. So far I have only seen coffee house discussion with not much tech to back it up.

 

Personally, I hope it is beltless :)

Could we perhaps have this discussion in the thread about the eCVT? It would make more sense and be easier to refer back to later on if it's there, rather than here.

Here is the link: http://fordfusionhyb...-is-the-answer/

[rjent]

Have you looked at the PDF linked in one of the sticky threads? It diagrams how the transmissions work in the 13 Hybrids. Pretty interesting reads, and explains how the power from the ICE and electric motors is distributed.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7913-general-info-for-ffh-techies/?p=70255

Outstanding brother!

 

Thanks!

[B25Nut]

The FFH is proof that UFOs exist. Ford got the powertrain design from Area 51.

[Wade Burtch]

My first 450 miles I've averaged 40.1 mpg. The weather has been somewhat cold too. So if that is likely to be on the low end of what I can achieve in this vehicle, I'm pretty happy!

[hermans]

When I picked up my FFH (12/12) I got 45 on the first 300+ miles. I really don't put much stock in a breakin period regarding gas mileage...others do.

[GrySql]

The FFH's driver skill break-in period can be somewhat longer than the car's.

[Riggo]

I agree. I don't think it's as much the engine break in period as it is the driver learning to drive the correct way.

[Waldo]

The whole meaning of break-in is for different parts to "get to know each other". Essentially it comes down to tolerance stack ups. One car may have all the tolerances in perfect alignment such that there really will be no "break-in" at all, while others could be a worse case scenario where it takes thousands of miles to reach the optimum. So it's not fair to draw conclusions solely based on one's own experience.

 

But as a point of reference, before Ford will send any hybrid vehicles out to the media, they make sure they have at least 4500 miles on them.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Waldo

[acdii]

Mine is broken in well. Except for the tires that go thump thump thump thump thump, everything is running smooth as silk.