The MPG problem... Solved? Read!

[rico567]

Advertised average fuel economy = 47 mpg

 

Reported average fuel economy = 37 mpg

 

Difference = 10 mpg

[gadgetguy]

The problem with A/C fuel use is all about the math. Cooling a hybrid requires pretty much the same amount of energy as a regular Fusion, there isn't much you can do to change the physics behind that. The amount of fuel needed to create that energy is pretty much the same on a hybrid as a regular Fusion. The problem is that MPG isn't a measure of fuel use, it's the inverse. So increasing your MPG number doesn't match an increase in fuel use in a linear way. In other words, running your A/C represents a greater percentage of fuel use on a hybrid than it does on a non-hybrid. Thus while you might lose 10mpg on an FFH when running the A/C (dropping from 47 to 37mpg say), the amount of fuel used to run the A/C is the same as if a regular Fusion dropped from 25 to 20mpg.

 

So instead of getting all upset that you're losing such a large MPG "number" when using the A/C, calculate out the actual amount of fuel used and you will find it's not as much as you think.

Very good point and explanation!

[aaronj1159]

Advertised average fuel economy = 47 mpg

 

Reported average fuel economy = 37 mpg

 

Difference = 10 mpg

Couple things here:

 

1) I'm willing to bet that there are a lot more people getting better MPG's that aren't reporting them than people with worse MPG's. This would skew the "actual" fuel economy down. I just feel like people are more likely to report it if they're unhappy with their results (those of us on this site notwithstanding).

 

2) I'm not saying there aren't some cars out there that have performance issues or defects because I know there are, but I also feel like some people that report the bad numbers may not be driving the car in a way that makes the hybrid system beneficial. It takes being a little bit proactive to adjust to a hybrid, and I myself have even seen drastic improvement over my 3 month ownership experience. This is mainly due to my driving habits changing. Those people that aren't willing to do that won't see fantastic results. Also, people that need to drive predominately above 70 MPH need to realize that the EPA test was not made for them. Maybe it should be, but it's not. What's nice is that they will still get better results from the hybrid than they would with the normal version, they just won't be getting 47.

[corncobs]

Advertised average fuel economy = 47 mpg

 

Reported average fuel economy = 37 mpg

 

Difference = 10 mpg

Question; is 37 MPG the result of test drive or are you quoting this from fuelly or fueleconomy.gov

 

Either way I like the previous post.

I'm getting very good MPG; 8 of 10 times by up to 5 MPG over EPA; but I'm not reporting to any of those sites. I only talking daily commute 76 miles round trip 50% Interstate @ 65 MPH; 50% mixed city and highway 30 - 55 MPH.

[fusionTX]

Couple things here:

 

1) I'm willing to bet that there are a lot more people getting better MPG's that aren't reporting them than people with worse MPG's. This would skew the "actual" fuel economy down. I just feel like people are more likely to report it if they're unhappy with their results (those of us on this site notwithstanding).

 

I don't know that I agree with this. My impression has always been that those people that take the time to log their mileage on sites like Fuelly and fueleconomy.gov are more the diehards that want to maximize their fuel economy. At least I think a good crossection of them are.

 

Of course, I am on fuelly and don't meet either your criteria or mine, and we'll see how long I continue to monitor the mileage. I hope to do so for a meaningful while.

 

Either way, I am happy with my mileage, but do not discount what others are getting. I do not think the car is a 47/47 car, but it does get great city mileage and has a lot more going for it. I know some people are capable of getting the EPA mileage, but those seem to be the exception, which I attribute to favorable commutes.

[rico567]

Question; is 37 MPG the result of test drive or are you quoting this from fuelly or fueleconomy.gov

 

Either way I like the previous post.

I'm getting very good MPG; 8 of 10 times by up to 5 MPG over EPA; but I'm not reporting to any of those sites. I only talking daily commute 76 miles round trip 50% Interstate @ 65 MPH; 50% mixed city and highway 30 - 55 MPH.

I just used 37 mpg because it seems to be a very common number that pops up here on FFH Forum, that's all. I have no idea if it's representative....except that I'm pretty sure that "Wow! I got 60 mpg this morning!" is not only uninformative, I'm pretty sure it's no more representative than the person who reports a cold start 5 miles to work where they were late, and stood on the gas and brake every time. Your report is the kind of thing I'm more interested in, that places the miles per gallon in some sort of context of 1) the route driven, 2) the temperature, 3) the speeds, and 4) as much other relevant info as possible.

 

The short version of where I'm coming from: I want a car that will get >40 mpg combined without also buying myself another hobby, I've already got enough of those. And, yes, I can accept the fact that I may have to slow down a bit on the Interstate to make that happen. Extensive reporting on Fuelly re: the Passat TDI has convinced me that with the driving we'll do with it, I can get @40 mpg (reporting 40.1 mpg on 306 cars) without working at it. Will the FFH do this? Fuelly reports 40.9 mpg with 151 cars. Back to the Magic 8-Ball: "Situation unclear."*

 

*And, yes, I'm aware of the differences in fuel price, and the clean diesel maintenance schedule for the Passat. Not discussed here (along with a $4K premium for the FFH Titanium) because this is an MPG thread.

[corncobs]

If 40+ MPG is your goal without worrying to much about how to drive both cars should make you happy. I was in the same boat at first I looked at the Passat TDI it's a nice big car, "simply" a Passst which I really like driving before. I used to have a TDI from 2000 and it was the hardest one to sell to date.

I'm already very certain the place will be taken by the FFH in a few years.

 

If it wouldn't be for the stunning looks and all the cool technology in the FFH I would be driving a Passat.

 

I think its almost a guarantee that if you go for the FFH you will get hooked on the MPG game as well realizing doing so you will arrive more relaxed at your destination and smile about great MPG returns when turning of the car.

 

I can PM you my current fuel stats and you will see I'm around 39 MPG with a big BUT because it includes 4000 miles pure interstate driving from Chicago to LA and back. Without this trip I would probably be working on an 43 MPG lifetime average.

 

EDIT: adjusted my lifetime MPG without the LA trip after some calculations I had expected 44 to 45 MPG.

Edited June 28, 2013 by corncobs

[acdii]

If 40+ MPG is your goal without worrying to much about how to drive both cars should make you happy. I was in the same boat at first I looked at the Passat TDI it's a nice big car, "simply" a Passst which I really like driving before. I used to have a TDI from 2000 and it was the hardest one to sell to date.

I'm already very certain the place will be taken by the FFH in a few years.

 

If it wouldn't be for the stunning looks and all the cool technology in the FFH I would be driving a Passat.

 

I think its almost a guarantee that if you go for the FFH you will get hooked on the MPG game as well realizing doing so you will arrive more relaxed at your destination and smile about great MPG returns when turning of the car.

 

I can PM you my current fuel stats and you will see I'm around 39 MPG with a big BUT because it includes 4000 miles pure interstate driving from Chicago to LA and back. Without this trip I would probably be working on an 43 MPG lifetime average.

 

EDIT: adjusted my lifetime MPG without the LA trip after some calculations I had expected 44 to 45 MPG.

That is about what I expect out of this one too, and getting it. 44 MPG is what I think this one will be getting after a few more K are on the clock. Since you know the roads I take, getting 44 is pretty darned good too!

[corncobs]

That is about what I expect out of this one too, and getting it. 44 MPG is what I think this one will be getting after a few more K are on the clock. Since you know the roads I take, getting 44 is pretty darned good too!

Yes I agree your results are very good given the terrain, rural roads and posted speeds you drive to work.

 

I still hoping to get to 45+ but I would probably need to reset my long term average to see this. I'm currently back at 39.3 MPG but it's a slow process given the difference between 4000 interstate mile at 36 MPG and 4000 miles at mixed traffic with an average of 43 including the first few weeks with cold weather and unexpierienced hybrid driver.

[acdii]

The more miles on the trip, the longer it takes to recover. You can go 1000 miles on a reset one one screen and lifetime on the other, and the one will go up quickly while the long term goes up by 1. Pretty sad to see. I like that I can reset individual ones without mussing with long term ones, so I have at least 4 variables to work off of.

 

1st is the trip 1 which is from the day it left the plant. Currently around 43.1, something.

2nd is Trip 2, which is reset with each fill, currently 44.9

3rd is the AVG on the Empower screen, currently at 43.5

4th is Lifetime Summary, which is at 43.1

 

Not that far off of actual either of 42.5. I'll take a .6 variance.

[dalesky]

I don't think that, in this car, AC is as big a drain as heat in winter. But all that energy used to run the compressor to cool the air has to come from somewhere.

When I use auto start with the AC on, it uses the ICE, but runs the air at less than the speed it could. When I get in and "start" the car prior to shifting into drive the AC picks up speed. I have no idea of how much electric power is needed, but has anyone noticed that if you really step on the accelerator and get both the ICE and EM to go the car can really take off?

More noticeable because I (we) are always trying to drive in a manner that saves gas. Some time I may try driving it hard, and see how much of a hit the mileage takes.

[acdii]

When I use auto start with the AC on, it uses the ICE, but runs the air at less than the speed it could. When I get in and "start" the car prior to shifting into drive the AC picks up speed. I have no idea of how much electric power is needed, but has anyone noticed that if you really step on the accelerator and get both the ICE and EM to go the car can really take off?

More noticeable because I (we) are always trying to drive in a manner that saves gas. Some time I may try driving it hard, and see how much of a hit the mileage takes.

12 MPG, dont believe me, try it! :)

[Geremy13]

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that. I did an 1,100 mile trip at 75 and my MPG was less than 33.

Others have done slightly better, but I do not believe the fusion will get anywhere near 40 MPG at 80 MPH. It won't even do that at 75 MPH. At least mine won't. I'm talking sustained speeds.

Wow, now this could be an eye opener. I just pulled the trigger on this FFH yesterday.. haven't taken delivery yet,,, but my whole reason for purchase was for MPG. My 10 year old Sonata gets 30 regularly but ONLY on these kind of trips that you described... (tank of gas on the highway). If the FFH can't do much better then I believe I will not be happy.

[corncobs]

Wow, now this could be an eye opener. I just pulled the trigger on this FFH yesterday.. haven't taken delivery yet,,, but my whole reason for purchase was for MPG. My 10 year old Sonata gets 30 regularly but ONLY on these kind of trips that you described... (tank of gas on the highway). If the FFH can't do much better then I believe I will not be happy.

Welcome to the forum and happy delivery tomorrow.

 

When it comes to gas mileage you should be able to find your sweet spot and it will be better than 30 MPG. I did a round trip Chicago to LA and averaged 36 MPG. If you add some decent city driving it will be a lot better.

 

It takes some adjustment in driving the FFH no question and don't get frustrated when you don't get 50 MPG on the first day.

 

My commute is 50/50 city/interstate @ 65MPH and the last 4 tanks have been 45+ MPG.

 

Beside the gas mileage you will find yourself in a much more relaxed state while driving.

 

Anyway just my two cents and enjoy your new ride.

[acdii]

Wow, now this could be an eye opener. I just pulled the trigger on this FFH yesterday.. haven't taken delivery yet,,, but my whole reason for purchase was for MPG. My 10 year old Sonata gets 30 regularly but ONLY on these kind of trips that you described... (tank of gas on the highway). If the FFH can't do much better then I believe I will not be happy.

Driving 75-80 with AC on and 5 people and a full trunk, expect 35.5 or so. Drive 68 and expect 43. Lighten up the car and it will do even better. Enjoy it!

[Geremy13]

Welcome to the forum and happy delivery tomorrow.

 

When it comes to gas mileage you should be able to find your sweet spot and it will be better than 30 MPG. I did a round trip Chicago to LA and averaged 36 MPG. If you add some decent city driving it will be a lot better.

 

It takes some adjustment in driving the FFH no question and don't get frustrated when you don't get 50 MPG on the first day.

 

My commute is 50/50 city/interstate @ 65MPH and the last 4 tanks have been 45+ MPG.

 

Beside the gas mileage you will find yourself in a much more relaxed state while driving.

 

Anyway just my two cents and enjoy your new ride.

 

I am looking forward to the excellent gas mileage. I do agree that just after 1 day that I am much more relaxed when driving and probably much safer as I am not trying to race to work and back..... Now if I could just keep my eye on the road instead of that plant growing on my instrument cluster... ;)

[JonE]

 

Just ticked up to 45MPG yesterday! :) I'm pretty happy with this mileage so far.

[Geremy13]

There is HOPE for my CAR!!!

 

I had to see a client today 14.1 miles from the office. First, after I figured out how to turn off the AC and still run the fans... (took a week to figure this out).... Here is my results: Outside Temp= 81 degrees. Turned off AC, ran on vent fans...... set out on my trip. Drove 14.1 miles mostly flat... eco cruise at 55MPH for 1/2 the distance and 45MPH the rest. Upon arrival the car told me 53.1MPG.........

 

OK..... now the trip back. Exact same roads.... exact same speeds..... 50.1MPG. So a total of 28.2 miles over 50MPG.......

 

Of course NO A/C...... Now on the trip back I did open the moonroof and cracked the driver side window abit.

 

BUT...... I was surprised at achieving this at all....... Since I am currently averaging 36 something. This is with grandma type driving and 3 minutes to get up to 55 with folks behind me.......

 

Normally this would result in 36+....... and now 50+? WOW!!!!!!!! Who would have thought?

 

I just didn't know how to turn off the AC and have the vent fans running..........
BUT........ Damn I am hot and sweating....... This black car gets hot and uncomfortable under these conditions....... So I am going to suffer in the Summer.... BUT maybe the black car will pay off in the COLD winters that we have......

 

YEAH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is nice to have broken the 50 mark on a 14 mile drive.

 

NOTE: My car also reports that I got 36.9 miles for the last tank of gas but fuelly correctly calculated it at 35.0 ....... so that has me a little concerned.

 

But overall happy to discover new possibilities!

[corncobs]

Very nice; very nice now the update should help with your short commute as well it might not be 50 MPG but even 42ish wouldn't be bad either in my book for such a short commute.

 

Now the next time you drive a route like this turn on your AC and set it to let's say 5 degrees below outside. You might not see 50 but same drive I would expect you to see 45 - 47 MPG.

Edited August 7, 2013 by corncobs

[djminfll]

There is HOPE for my CAR!!!

 

I had to see a client today 14.1 miles from the office. First, after I figured out how to turn off the AC and still run the fans... (took a week to figure this out).... Here is my results: Outside Temp= 81 degrees. Turned off AC, ran on vent fans...... set out on my trip. Drove 14.1 miles mostly flat... eco cruise at 55MPH for 1/2 the distance and 45MPH the rest. Upon arrival the car told me 53.1MPG.........

 

OK..... now the trip back. Exact same roads.... exact same speeds..... 50.1MPG. So a total of 28.2 miles over 50MPG.......

 

Of course NO A/C...... Now on the trip back I did open the moonroof and cracked the driver side window abit.

 

BUT...... I was surprised at achieving this at all....... Since I am currently averaging 36 something. This is with grandma type driving and 3 minutes to get up to 55 with folks behind me.......

 

Normally this would result in 36+....... and now 50+? WOW!!!!!!!! Who would have thought?

 

I just didn't know how to turn off the AC and have the vent fans running..........

BUT........ Damn I am hot and sweating....... This black car gets hot and uncomfortable under these conditions....... So I am going to suffer in the Summer.... BUT maybe the black car will pay off in the COLD winters that we have......

 

YEAH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is nice to have broken the 50 mark on a 14 mile drive.

 

NOTE: My car also reports that I got 36.9 miles for the last tank of gas but fuelly correctly calculated it at 35.0 ....... so that has me a little concerned.

 

But overall happy to discover new possibilities!

Congrats on the 50+ mpg today! It's great that you were able to achieve this, but is it really worth suffering in the car just to achieve better mpg? Think of it this way - to get 36mpg, you could have bought a Honda Civic or Fiat 500. You can drive a stylish, comfortable, safe and technologically advance car like the FFH with A/C and get 36+ mpg. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[dalesky]

Very nice; very nice now the update should help with your short commute as well it might not be 50 MPG but even 42ish wouldn't be bad either in my book for such a short commute.

 

Now the next time you drive a route like this turn on your AC and set it to let's say 5 degrees below outside. You might not see 50 but same drive I would expect you to see 45 - 47 MPG.

I would second this idea. I run my air always when it is hot outside (80 or better) and I set it at 73 initially, then up to 75. I do not see much of a drop in mileage, and I DO enjoy being comfortable. I almost always get low 40's for mpg on short trips of 12 miles or less.

[corncobs]

I would second this idea. I run my air always when it is hot outside (80 or better) and I set it at 73 initially, then up to 75. I do not see much of a drop in mileage, and I DO enjoy being comfortable. I almost always get low 40's for mpg on short trips of 12 miles or less.

Could very well be but have you tried it w/out the AC running? I like comfortable as well but he didn't turn on the AC at all and got 50 MPG so with AC it will drop question is how much. I was thinking with the update it would be less on a short trip but I will have to use my AC later so I'm going to see how much it drops for me.

[Geremy13]

Congrats on the 50+ mpg today! It's great that you were able to achieve this, but is it really worth suffering in the car just to achieve better mpg? Think of it this way - to get 36mpg, you could have bought a Honda Civic or Fiat 500. You can drive a stylish, comfortable, safe and technologically advance car like the FFH with A/C and get 36+ mpg. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

djminfll, it is not worth suffering, you are correct. I would just like to get the 47MPG as advertised. I was happy to actually achieve that on a 28 mile round trip (albeit with some suffering.)... So, it has given me some hope. No ... I wouldn't drive a Fiat 500...

 

Quick Story: While test driving Hybrids from different manufacturers.... the salesman brought up his sales manager to close the deal.... during the conversation he contested that the Kia Optima (totally decked out) set cross country records for MPG as documented by Guiness or something... then he sarcastically asked me what kind of MPG do I want?... and I sarcastically replied better than that!... and he pointed me to his solution which was some Skate Board Looking Car...... (possibly Fiat, possibly Honda, ....)... but my response is that I am not going to drive a Skate Board looking car (regardless of the MPG). So, obviously this dealership did not understand the request for luxury and MPG. Will I settle for 36+ on the FFH? .......... I am completely satisfied with Titanium luxury...... but not MPG. (no bitching, just a concern)... just my opinion as well. Always, I appreciate your input.

 

Very nice; very nice now the update should help with your short commute as well it might not be 50 MPG but even 42ish wouldn't be bad either in my book for such a short commute.

 

Now the next time you drive a route like this turn on your AC and set it to let's say 5 degrees below outside. You might not see 50 but same drive I would expect you to see 45 - 47 MPG.

 

Thank you corncobs, I will do that as well. I am learning that on my short 3 mile commutes that I can turn on the AC and let the car cool down,,, and then turn it to vent for the rest of my drive. Might make a difference. We shall see.

[djminfll]

Something I do to reduce the impact of A/C on mpg is to use the remote to open all the windows before I get in the car. Once I get in the car, I set the A/C on 73degrees on Auto. As soon as the car is cool, I take it off Auto, turn the temp to 75 and reduce the fan speed. I'm then riding in comfort without wasting too much gas.

Plus, driving on the highway with the windows open has more of a negative effect on mpg than using the A/C

[acdii]

I found driving like a grandpa doesn't gain much. I accelerate it around 2 KW on empower for the most part and it does pretty good, but these cars do not like short trips! If I go to town I will be lucky to break 39, its 55MPH at the end of my driveway all the way to town. My trips to lunch, forgetaboutit, its uphill in any direction, but coming back, 50-60 MPG. Engine warmed and mostly EV at that point.

 

The only time I do accelerate slowly is if the speed limit is only 20-35, then I just start out on EV to about 15 and by then ICE kicks on and I get up to about 5 over and then let EV take over and just try to maintain speed.