The MPG problem... Solved? Read!

[mcalli27]

My 2013 FFH was built in September 2013 I believe. I didn't take delivery until Jan. For four months of driving 6000+ miles I'm averaging lifetime of 38.1mpg. Awfully disappointing, so I began to search for answers, after taking my car in for a check engine light on, a sillenoid seal was replaced and the mechanic told me "you should see a significant improvement in MPG". False. Still same. However, I tried an experiment with the AC completely off since I read that in hybrids the AC can really really affect the MPG... for two days of driving I'm averaging about 49-51 mpg all of a sudden. Voila! It's the damn AC causing such horrible MPG (for me at least). (Which is still pretty messed up that they advertise 47mpg knowing that people use the AC). Anyway try no climate control for a tank of gas and post what your mpg is after that!!! 20% better in my case so far but I need to do a whole tank of gas!!

[kuzzi]

 

 

Anyway try no climate control for a tank of gas and post what your mpg is after that!!!

In Texas?

:baby: I'm a wuss, haha.

Edited May 23, 2013 by kuzzi

[terryb]

I'm not going to say that this is the answer yet, but I just changed from having the A.C on to having the auto light on and saw a 47mpg segment replace a 28mpg segment. I am very encouraged, but not taking a bow yet.

[fusionTX]

You definitely want to have recirculate on. It's a lot more work to cool the hot air from outside than recirculating your cool air.

For over a week, I have not been able to duplicate the mileage I was getting last week. Even my backroads from work to home, which were yielding mid fifties, were now down to mid forties. Not sure if it is the A/C or if I'm encountering more traffic.

 

This morning I got the best MPG I have ever gotten taking highway to work (49.6), and the air was on.

 

So, while I agree that the air is a drain, particularly early on in a trip as it tries to cool down the car, I'm not sure yet that it is the sole culprit to MPG problems.

[corncobs]

I also agree that running the AC is a drain but we should also look at the temperature difference each individual is trying to achieve.

It will make a difference trying to cool down from 100 to 68 or from 90 to 75.

Sure everyone has his/her own comfort zone but you can't really blame it on the car; I mean you also have to pay higher electric bills if you run the AC at higher temperature difference.

 

Unfortunately the effect is a lot bigger on our hybrids than on regular gasser but they waste a lot more gas in the first place so it's less obvious on the MPGs.

[acdii]

The AC is now a big drain on my 2010, about an 7 MPG difference between it on and windows up, to off and windows down. 39 with, 46 without. For a while this morning I needed defrost which turns the compressor on, and I struggled to keep it over 40 and was dropping speed where I normally dont, then when I no longer needed it, turned it off and it was back to normal. It needs a new AC compressor, its making an awful racket.

[lolder]

The AC always makes a loud buzz outside the car when it's on high. Is it worse than it was? Cooling a heat soaked car down is costly. I open all the windows for a few minutes of driving and then turn the AC on. On long trips, the AC only seems to cost 1-2 mpg after the cool down.

[elle]

 

In Texas?

 

 

:baby: I'm a wuss, haha.

 

 

Not in Sacramento, either. Besides, I knew this already from my Prius. AC is a drain. Heat is a drain. I get maybe two days a year when I don't have to use them. This does not explain why people in So. Cal are doing significantly better than I am doing in a cooler climate.

[acdii]

The AC always makes a loud buzz outside the car when it's on high. Is it worse than it was?

It used to be quiet, but now its quite a racket. The other day I was standing outside when my wife started the car and had the AC on, and it at least twice the normal volume, and I can also hear one of the fans oscillating, which means it is about to go south from a bad bearing. Also noticed the ACC drain is a bit higher than normal when AC is on. It used to make a whirring noise, now its a grating noise, like bearings make when they run out of grease and grind.

[hybridbear]

My 2013 FFH was built in September 2013 I believe. I didn't take delivery until Jan. For four months of driving 6000+ miles I'm averaging lifetime of 38.1mpg. Awfully disappointing, so I began to search for answers, after taking my car in for a check engine light on, a sillenoid seal was replaced and the mechanic told me "you should see a significant improvement in MPG". False. Still same. However, I tried an experiment with the AC completely off since I read that in hybrids the AC can really really affect the MPG... for two days of driving I'm averaging about 49-51 mpg all of a sudden. Voila! It's the damn AC causing such horrible MPG (for me at least). (Which is still pretty messed up that they advertise 47mpg knowing that people use the AC). Anyway try no climate control for a tank of gas and post what your mpg is after that!!! 20% better in my case so far but I need to do a whole tank of gas!!

This is why the EPA has added a test cycle with A/C use. However as is mentioned in the C&D article posted elsewhere the problem with the 47 MPG rating is with the EPA tests and the "fudge factors" they allow the manufacturers to apply to their results from the 2 old fashioned EPA test cycles to calculate the impact of the other test cycles. Those "fudge factors" do not translate well to hybrids. Ford did not run all 5 test cycles when calculating 47 MPG for the Fusion Hybrid. They ran only the 2 required ones and used the "fudge factor" because they no doubt knew that doing so would give them a higher EPA rating than actually performing all 5 cycles or using the other approved EPA adjustment method.

[hybridbear]

We have been fortunate enough in MN to use minimal AC so far and since the weather warmed up and we swore off driving the freeway our tank averages have jumped from low 40s to mid 50s!! Staying off the freeway makes a big difference too!

[rico567]

I'm not really reading anything definitive in this thread yet. I'm not saying it's impossible, but for me it's quite a stretch to believe that the A/C could account for a 20% hit on mileage. I've read the C&D article on the EPA "fudge factors," but I think that issue is peripheral to what people are actually able to get. Real-world mileage is a major reason I'm frequenting this forum, since we haven't yet decided whether or not to buy the FFH or one of several other high-mpg cars. I also agree that keeping off the Interstate would almost certainly be a way of increasing fuel economy, but I'm still trying to get a good handle on what these cars are capable of without hypermiling or other special techniques. And it's not always practical to stay off the Interstate, where the national standard speed limit (from what I can tell, and irrespective of what's on the speed limit signs) is about 75-80 mph.

 

It would be nice to have people continue to post to this thread giving their future results along these lines.

[Terps]

I can definitely say that AC usage for me hasn't been a 20% hit on mileage. I have taken a few cross town trips(~10-12mile, usually mid 50's MPGs) with the AC on that I am still able to manage 48-50MPG on, also note that both of these trips were with 3 and 4 additional passengers in the car, where as most of the time it is just me or me and my wife. This is the limited experience I have with using the AC so far as we are just starting to reach the mid 80's to mid 90's occasionally here in Colorado. One thing I have noticed is that the recirculate does not come on when you turn the AC on so that could be why some people are seeing such a large drop, sure the first few miles while it cools down the car will take a hit but after that the results should bring it back up once it is down to temp, also we are comfortable at 72-73F on the temp setting.

 

As far as freeway goes I have not had any AC usage on the freeway but most of my trips at 75-80mph have been anywhere from 41-45MPG when that speed accounts for about 80% of the trip. Again I would be surprised to see a large AC hit here as once the car is cooled it seems to operate fairly regularly for me so far.

[fusionTX]

I can definitely say that AC usage for me hasn't been a 20% hit on mileage. I have taken a few cross town trips(~10-12mile, usually mid 50's MPGs) with the AC on that I am still able to manage 48-50MPG on, also note that both of these trips were with 3 and 4 additional passengers in the car, where as most of the time it is just me or me and my wife. This is the limited experience I have with using the AC so far as we are just starting to reach the mid 80's to mid 90's occasionally here in Colorado. One thing I have noticed is that the recirculate does not come on when you turn the AC on so that could be why some people are seeing such a large drop, sure the first few miles while it cools down the car will take a hit but after that the results should bring it back up once it is down to temp, also we are comfortable at 72-73F on the temp setting.

 

As far as freeway goes I have not had any AC usage on the freeway but most of my trips at 75-80mph have been anywhere from 41-45MPG when that speed accounts for about 80% of the trip. Again I would be surprised to see a large AC hit here as once the car is cooled it seems to operate fairly regularly for me so far.

41 to 45 MPG at 75 to 80. Seriously?

[Terps]

41 to 45 MPG at 75 to 80. Seriously?

Yeah, like I said where that speed is kept for about 80% of the trip, I would probably guess high 30's if I were to track it from getting on the interstate to a stopping point on the interstate, but I haven't made any trips that were close to 100% at those speeds. Most of them I have exited onto lower speed freeways in the 55mph range for a few miles until the destination. But on flat ground at 80mph my instant mpg sticks right around 40 MPG once SOC is up around 80% with ECO Cruise on.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Terps

[fusionTX]

Yeah, like I said where that speed is kept for about 80% of the trip, I would probably guess high 30's if I were to track it from getting on the interstate to a stopping point on the interstate, but I haven't made any trips that were close to 100% at those speeds. Most of them I have exited onto lower speed freeways in the 55mph range for a few miles until the destination. But on flat ground at 80mph my instant mpg sticks right around 40 MPG once SOC is up around 80% with ECO Cruise on.

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that. I did an 1,100 mile trip at 75 and my MPG was less than 33.

Others have done slightly better, but I do not believe the fusion will get anywhere near 40 MPG at 80 MPH. It won't even do that at 75 MPH. At least mine won't. I'm talking sustained speeds.

[Terps]

I'll try to remember to track it the next time I have to go somewhere on the interstate, like I said my numbers are not from a interstate only trip but about 80 percent at 80mph also just me in the car with no extra weight. Just posting what I have experienced with the car.

[dalesky]

My 2013 FFH was built in September 2013 I believe. I didn't take delivery until Jan. For four months of driving 6000+ miles I'm averaging lifetime of 38.1mpg. Awfully disappointing, so I began to search for answers, after taking my car in for a check engine light on, a sillenoid seal was replaced and the mechanic told me "you should see a significant improvement in MPG". False. Still same. However, I tried an experiment with the AC completely off since I read that in hybrids the AC can really really affect the MPG... for two days of driving I'm averaging about 49-51 mpg all of a sudden. Voila! It's the damn AC causing such horrible MPG (for me at least). (Which is still pretty messed up that they advertise 47mpg knowing that people use the AC). Anyway try no climate control for a tank of gas and post what your mpg is after that!!! 20% better in my case so far but I need to do a whole tank of gas!!

In South Carolina? Come on down in July!

Seriously, I have noticed that the ICE does come on for the AC at times, but not always.

[kuzzi]

I did a run from Spring to Katy and back on I-45, BW8, and I-10 this weekend, so I was able to keep sustained highway speeds on relatively flat elevation roads at 67-70 MPH with temps staying at 75-80*F. The way over, I had the AC going easy and got 39 mpg on a 44 mile trip. On the return, I did not use AC and just had the fan circulating air, and I got 42 mpg for the same trip.

[elle]

I don't think that, in this car, AC is as big a drain as heat in winter. But all that energy used to run the compressor to cool the air has to come from somewhere.

[acdii]

When I get mine, after break in, I will see if I can get over 40 in the Interstate like I can in the 10. Something tells me I can if I can get the hang of feathering the pedal like I can in the other cars.

[mcalli27]

UPDATE!!!!UPDATE!!! UPDATE - I did an entire tank of Gas with absolutely zero HVAC - never touched the button once for an entire tank of gas... mind you this was Tampa Florida (for the people saying... texas and wherever else... yes it was fricking Hotttt, but I had to test it).

 

With A/C: total miles obtained based on multiple reciepts: apprx 384 per tank = 38.1mpg

 

With NO HVAC System: total miles obtained based on this reciept: 480.1 for this tank = 48mpg (25% Difference)!!!!

 

THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!! So, apparently we aren't supposed to use the HVAC to get good mileage.

[aaronj1159]

 

 

THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!! So, apparently we aren't supposed to use the HVAC to get good mileage.

I use it and average 45-47 MPG. Of course it's not quite as hot up here, but there are ways to use it without letting it drain all your battery. I never let it run full blast, ever. If it's 90 degrees outside, I set it to 85 and let it cool to there. then I take it down little by little until it's to comfortable levels.

[neod192]

UPDATE!!!!UPDATE!!! UPDATE - I did an entire tank of Gas with absolutely zero HVAC - never touched the button once for an entire tank of gas... mind you this was Tampa Florida (for the people saying... texas and wherever else... yes it was fricking Hotttt, but I had to test it).

 

With A/C: total miles obtained based on multiple reciepts: apprx 384 per tank = 38.1mpg

 

With NO HVAC System: total miles obtained based on this reciept: 480.1 for this tank = 48mpg (25% Difference)!!!!

 

THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!! So, apparently we aren't supposed to use the HVAC to get good mileage.

Hey, the EPA tests are done with the A/C turned off :) That energy has to come from somewhere .. use it wisely!

[Da0ne]

UPDATE!!!!UPDATE!!! UPDATE - I did an entire tank of Gas with absolutely zero HVAC - never touched the button once for an entire tank of gas... mind you this was Tampa Florida (for the people saying... texas and wherever else... yes it was fricking Hotttt, but I had to test it).

 

With A/C: total miles obtained based on multiple reciepts: apprx 384 per tank = 38.1mpg

 

With NO HVAC System: total miles obtained based on this reciept: 480.1 for this tank = 48mpg (25% Difference)!!!!

 

THIS IS REDICULOUS!!!! So, apparently we aren't supposed to use the HVAC to get good mileage.

 

I was in FL for a week and used my a/c everyday, it was above 90 the whole week and i even took a drive from orlando to tampa

 

going

 

 

and return trip

 

 

going the posted speed limit both ways