Punishment Tax for Hybrid Owners

[ny2oc1996]

Now that you've spent thousands of extra dollars to buy a hybrid, how do our politicians say thank-you? Special hybrid punishment taxes now being formulated because you are paying less gasoline taxes at the pump! BTW, this appears to be bi-partisan as there are red and blue states involved.

 

This is just the beginning. For some time now there has been talk out there for a per mile driven tax. Gotta love these spendaholics!

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/04/28/hybrid-taxes-gas-tax-highway-funding/2110297/

 

[LASooner]

If they even try to pass that in California, people will burn Sacramento to the ground. We already pay 18 cents a gallon extra.

[acdii]

You know the saying, give them and inch......

 

You know this country is in a downward spiral when the crap that is going on today happens, and no one cares. Benghazi? What does it matter? Fast and Furious? Whats that? Sequestration? its Bush's fault. What? Ban Assault rifles, uh, already done, been that way for decades, no one but criminals have them you fools! AR-15 is not an assault rifle, DUH! They all need to be fired, need fresh minds that actually care about this country there fixing whats broken and not throwing patches at stuff that cant be fixed. A band aid approach would not have kept the Titanic afloat, and it wont work four this country either. The first thing to do is kick the media in the crotch and have them start doing what they used to do, and report on issues, and not cover up like they are now.

 

 

Oh and if I ever see Micheal Moore, I will kick him so hard in the balls that they will become useless and he wont ever have the chance to further infect the gene pool.

 

[/rant]

 

BTW Love the new Fusions still .:)

[jeff_h]

Well as for the actual topic of this thread -- yeah it sucks, and now both cars are subject to this... originally was going to be $100 per year for 'hybrid tax' but was reduced to $64, gee thanks. Not exactly the way to encourage efficiency, but is a way to dig deeper into my pockets.

[hermans]

If they even try to pass that in California, people will burn Sacramento to the ground. We already pay 18 cents a gallon extra.

California used to have an "import tax" on any vehicles registered from out of state. We had to pay $600 in additional registration fees when we moved there. Years later they refunded the money when the State Supreme Court ruled against the tax.

 

I think the same will happen in other states that enact a "hybrid tax."

[acdii]

Sorry guys, lack of sleep and too much caffeine.

[storksb]

Well as for the actual topic of this thread -- yeah it sucks, and now both cars are subject to this... originally was going to be $100 per year for 'hybrid tax' but was reduced to $64, gee thanks. Not exactly the way to encourage efficiency, but is a way to dig deeper into my pockets.

The state seems to forget that as had to pay more up front I also paid more in sales tax than I would of for a non hybrid version of the same car. Also due to the higher price my yearly property taxes will be higher too. Way to go VA politicians!

[mokee]

My cousin was paid to test a device that tracked mileage and location purposed for charging road taxes on a per mile basis. Charging by the mile IMO seems fairer than by the gallon of fuel. My auto insurance rates were charged the same way. I did a vehicle health report, and the mileage was forwarded to the insurance company. I would assume that the above device would be standard equipment on new cars at some point in the future. I'm not fond of the idea that mileage and location are tracked, but like or not it is happening already.

[acdii]

Just what we need, more taxes! Bad enough they are shoving obocare down our throats, but to do this too! Yeah, not at all in favor of more fees and taxes based on our cars.

[hybridbear]

As hybrid drivers we have a different perspective on this. If we were polled about which option we preferred to generate more revenue we would respond very differently from the general population.

 

Based on the options listed below which would you choose and why?

1. Increase the gas tax
2. Leave constant or lower it and increase revenue by taxing the purchase of hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs at a higher rate
3. Institute a per mile tax

Most gas drivers, especially those with gas guzzlers are going to favor options 2 or 3, most likely option 2. Hybrid and other alt fuel drivers would mostly favor option 1 because it has the least impact on us. Option 3 is the most fair way to tax ALL members of the population, but fair rarely happens in government.

 

What ends up happening ultimately depends on what the politicians want to encourage. Increasing the gas tax is a great way to encourage people to buy less gas. There are various ways that people can buy less gas, they can drive less or move to a more fuel efficient vehicle. Lowering the gas tax and increasing taxes on hybrids and other alt fuel vehicles serves to disincentivise the purchase of fuel efficient vehicles and encourage people to use more gas. Instituting a per mileage tax encourages people to drive less but doesn't encourage them to use less gas per mile.

 

If the goal is to decrease pollution, reduce the dependence on foreign oil and save consumers money then the obvious answer is to INCREASE the gas tax. But most people won't see it that way. We see it that way because we're already concerned about the environment and about saving money and thus we drive hybrids.

[acdii]

 

If the goal is to decrease pollution, reduce the dependence on foreign oil and save consumers money then the obvious answer is to INCREASE the gas tax. But most people won't see it that way. We see it that way because we're already concerned about the environment and about saving money and thus we drive hybrids.

 

 

Agree 100%

 

Option 3 will hurt too many folks whose job includes a lot of driving. Option 2, as you said will discourage people from buying a premium based Hybrid, which defeats the purpose of the Hybrid itself.

 

WHich is making me wonder, why has gas shot up to over $4 a gallon here?

[corncobs]

WHich is making me wonder, why has gas shot up to over $4 a gallon here?

More people buy hybrids or other fuel efficient car or simply drive less but the oil company still wants to make its cut.

 

Same with water the more you save the more it will cost because it still costs the same amount of money to produce tab water. Silly comparison but very true.

 

I know that was a catch 22 question.

[jeff_h]

 

WHich is making me wonder, why has gas shot up to over $4 a gallon here?

 

Because you are in Illinois and are living the gas-tax dream... I filled up on Saturday for $3.15 -- happy to save a buck or two, but about to get a $64 per year hybrid-tax jolt to bring reality back into focus.

[acdii]

$3.15? (*&^&@*^#(()!!!!!!!!! thats cheap. Pretty sad when $3.15 is considered CHEAP for a gallon of gas.

[wmpwi]

I buy the hybrid to save a few bucks at the gas pump, the guy next to me takes the bus or rides his bike more often, The bus, subway, ride share people, or bicycle types are also hitting the pumps less, so by the same extension of logic, they should have to pay a higher tax then I do correct?

[jeff_h]

$3.15? (*&^&@*^#(()!!!!!!!!! thats cheap. Pretty sad when $3.15 is considered CHEAP for a gallon of gas.

 

That's what I put on my posts on gasbuddy when a price story comes up... I normally reply that "look how conditioned many have become to think that 3 bucks per gallon is shangri-la"

[acdii]

Indeed!

[ny2oc1996]

Most of you like myself would not even mind paying road taxes if the money wasn't wasted. The truth is this state road tax money gets deposited into the general fund and gets spent elsewhere. In the 1960's California spent 10-12% of the state budget on roads called freeways. Now it's less than 2% and they're building toll roads everywhere. Why? Skyrocketing social spending and this social spending will not be cut as it is politically more palatable to reduce funding for road work among other things.

 

With 1 out of 7 Americans now collecting food stamps and 1 out of 2 now not paying any Federal income taxes, you can be assured that any new road taxes will not be prioritized for road use. They did the same thing when selling us the lottery idea in New York. By law, 100% of all lottery proceeds had to go to education. So what happened? 100% of all lottery proceeds went to education and each year the state defunded education by the exact amount that the lottery brought in. So the net result was no additional money for education while state coffers were flush with new cash. And a few years after that New York City faced bankrupcy.

 

And what happens when we run out of money? That already happened. So now it's just astronomical borrowing. New road taxes? Fugettaboutit.

[milleron]

And let's not forget the unbelievable irony of the feds giving tax credits to encourage the purchase of EVs and the states instituting new taxes to punish us for doing the same thing. The politicians have truly lost their collective mind altogether. I'm through the looking glass where nothing is quite as it seems. Where's the mushroom that makes me larger? (No, not that part of me.)

[mokee]

According to the American Petroleum Institute the average motor fuel tax is 49 cents a gallon. In Illinois we pay 57.5 cents a gallon along with an increased cost of production due to the fact that many area refiners use high sulfur Alberta crude. That plus the fact that the retailers in northern IL use every oil sheiks fart as an excuse to raise pump prices means we pay higher if not the highest price for a gallon of gas in the country. Add cost of insurance, toll roads and etcetera, and driving here is costly. It really surprises me that more citizens are not driving hybrids and PHEVs. It is always a nice surprise to fill up in South Carolina. Gas there is usually 50-75 cents less a gallon than at home.

And aren't toll roads a form of tax?

Edited May 2, 2013 by mokee

[acdii]

I don't mind the toll roads, at least they are well maintained. Ticked that I have to turn in my old Ipass though. It's the one that has the display and beeps when a toll is paid. Got it in 1998, and replaced the battery once.....once.

[djminfll]

And let's not forget the unbelievable irony of the feds giving tax credits to encourage the purchase of EVs and the states instituting new taxes to punish us for doing the same thing. The politicians have truly lost their collective mind altogether. I'm through the looking glass where nothing is quite as it seems. Where's the mushroom that makes me larger? (No, not that part of me.)

Milleron, that is exactly what I was going to write when I read this posting earlier on my phone, but it is too difficult to type a response on the iPhone.

What kind of screwed up politicians do we have that provide a tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle, and then charge a tax because we aren't using enough fuel? :banghead: Aren't we supposed to be reducing or eliminating our dependence on foreign oil? I won't even bring up Democrat vs. Republican, the whole system is a mess. But if this really is submitted for vote or approval, clearly the oil companies have the politicians in their back pockets!

[47Minutes]

Milleron, that is exactly what I was going to write when I read this posting earlier on my phone, but it is too difficult to type a response on the iPhone.

What kind of screwed up politicians do we have that provide a tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle, and then charge a tax because we aren't using enough fuel? :banghead: Aren't we supposed to be reducing or eliminating our dependence on foreign oil? I won't even bring up Democrat vs. Republican, the whole system is a mess. But if this really is submitted for vote or approval, clearly the oil companies have the politicians in their back pockets!

 

Living in TX where there is a similar proposal on the books I can answer your question, from my perspective anyway. Tax credit is Federal, EV tax is state. I know there may be some states on the list considering this that also offer a state income tax credit for the vehicles so one size does not fit all. I'm not at all surprised that TX would do this being an "oil" state. Also being predominantly right-wing, anything that can be done to sink something the "big government" is trying to do is up for consideration.

 

I can't say that I am totally opposed to this type of fee. I will agree that it makes sense since my car using the roads for 12,000 miles per year generates less revenue to repair those roads through use of less gas. But that argument only works if the gas tax monies are actually being used for public road repair and not just ending up in the general fund where other items could tap into it.

 

My biggest issue is being singled out as an PHEV owner. I'm up for doing my fair share. But what about everyone using public transportation? I'm not familiar with how it works for public transportation with regard to the gas tax for road maintenance. Does the city pay this tax on the fuel consumed by buses? If so, is it an appropriate ratio compared to the number of fewer vehicles potentially using/wearing down the roads?

 

I don't have all the answers but the way this is coming off is that PHEV and EV drivers are being singled out as a Band-Aid on the larger problem. People trying to drive less or more efficiently to save money yet the expense to maintain the infrastructure continues to remain stagnant or rise and cannot be fulfilled by the shortfall of revenues. Another example of how government, big and small, still has not learned how to adapt.

[djminfll]

47Minutes, using that logic, a Lexus LS Hybrid or Mercedes Benz S-Class Hybrid would be taxed simply because they are hybrids, while a Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris would not, even though these economy cars get far better gas mileage than either of the Luxury Hybrids. And where do diesels fit in? Taking this logic even further, if I drive 50,000 miles a year in my hybrid and get 45mpg, I would be using over 1100 gallons of gas, while you could be driving a Cadillac Escalade and drive 12,000 miles, get 15mpg and only use 800 gallons. Yet as a hybrid driver, I will still have to pay this hybrid tax and you would not pay any extra tax even though I am using 300 extra gallons of fuel per year. Wouldn't it make far more sense, and be far more equitable to pay any additional tax based on miles driven, regardless of the mpg achieved? That would be fair to everyone, and would not discourage new car buyers from considering hybrids, electrics, or other alternate fuel vehicles.

[neod192]

Wouldn't it make far more sense, and be far more equitable to pay any additional tax based on miles driven, regardless of the mpg achieved? That would be fair to everyone, and would not discourage new car buyers from considering hybrids, electrics, or other alternate fuel vehicles.

Sure, but in that case the tax system doesn't stimulate energy efficiency and less oil dependency. If you pay by the mile, what incentive would you have to buy an efficient car and actually use less gas?