Fusion Energi Overpriced

[fusionTX]

It seems to me that the Ford goofed when pricing the Fusion Energi.

It's a car I would have considered, but the price tag made it so I didn't give it a second look

At a time when plug-in vehicle sales are taking off, the Energi price may end up being a big blunder.

 

Below are the plug-in electric sales for March.

 

http://insideevs.com/march-2013-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

 

Maybe Ford's low sales numbers are due to production issues, but I can't help think that the price is too high.

I think the Cmax Energi price is much more reasonable.

 

Ford has what should be a great product in the Fusion Energi. it will be interesting to see how it evolves.

I, for one, could not justify the price, even if my commute was favorable to an Energi.

[acdii]

Keep in mind they have only been in production about a month or so now. People need to SEE them, and drive them before they will start to buy them. Are they priced too high? Possibly, but considering all the new tech and huge battery in them, they can be pricey to start with. When battery tech catches up with the rest of the market, and prices come down, then Hybrid and non hybrid cars will be priced very close to each other. If you look at Lincoln, both models are the same base price, dont know why the Fusion cant be that way.

[jeff_h]

It seems to me that the Ford goofed when pricing the Fusion Energi.

It's a car I would have considered, but the price tag made it so I didn't give it a second look

At a time when plug-in vehicle sales are taking off, the Energi price may end up being a big blunder.

 

Below are the plug-in electric sales for March.

 

http://insideevs.com/march-2013-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/

 

Maybe Ford's low sales numbers are due to production issues, but I can't help think that the price is too high.

I think the Cmax Energi price is much more reasonable.

 

Ford has what should be a great product in the Fusion Energi. it will be interesting to see how it evolves.

I, for one, could not justify the price, even if my commute was favorable to an Energi.

 

I think it's a matter of the competition in that segment... Cmax Energi is direct competitor to Prius Plug-In so has to be priced competitively... for all we know they may not make much of anything on that model and it's a move to get market share... but the Fusion Energi is direct competitor to the Accord Plug-In (or similar), is the price comparable to that(those)?

[expresspotato]

I really wish the price of these plug ins would come down to a little more obtainable levels... Well Hybrids did so let's wait for the 2018 model ;)

[hybridbear]

I agree that the Fusion Energi is was overpriced. The C-Max Energi carries a minimal price premium over the C-Max Hybrid. With a C-Max Energi the price premium would be recouped in 2-3 years over a regular C-Max Hybrid. With a Fusion Energi I don't know that you could ever recoup the cost

[acdii]

In 4 years, if the price does come down, the NRG HyTi will make an excellent replacement for my 2010 FFH. Heck even if it doesn't it will still make an excellent replacement. In 4 years I HOPE Ford can get their stuff consistent! :worship: :yahoo: :hysterical: :woohoo:

[fusionTX]

Yeah my next car will most likely be something similar to an Energi.

[CombsAuthor]

Interesting article.

I was one who paid that Energi premium, but didn't mind it too much based on the cost of the technology to produce. First adopters always pay more...(I remember my first 10mb Hard Drive Computer that was well over $2,000).

The approximate payback for the Energi premium is 6.2 years which puts it out of range for most buyers. It will definitely be reduced within the next two years.

 

[hybridbear]

Interesting article. I was one who paid that Energi premium, but didn't mind it too much based on the cost of the technology to produce. First adopters always pay more...(I remember my first 10mb Hard Drive Computer that was well over $2,000). The approximate payback for the Energi premium is 6.2 years which puts it out of range for most buyers. It will definitely be reduced within the next two years.

 

Are you willing to share the math on how you calculated your payback period? I would have expected more than 6.2 years. What does that translate into in miles? Thanks

[CombsAuthor]

Hi Hybridbear -

I actually saw that number in two separate articles. I'm speaking today, so I'll try to track them down when I return.

 

[hybridbear]

Hi Hybridbear - I actually saw that number in two separate articles. I'm speaking today, so I'll try to track them down when I return.

 

I was wondering what calculations you personally did based on your driving habits, electricity prices and other factors. Electricity prices vary greatly across the country and have a big influence on a payback period. Another factor is how much of your driving will be in EV mode, because non EV mode driving costs more than in the regular hybrid. You also have to factor in the higher purchase price since the tax credit money comes out of your pocket upfront and then you get it back later on. This means that you have to account for the cost of capital for that $3750 in your payback period.

 

Most magazine articles don't account for the full picture of owning a PHEV properly

Edited April 10, 2013 by hybridbear

[acdii]

Man, when you say it, you say a lot! :) Nail met hammer there!

[hybridbear]

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a .25% APR: $3172.11

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $1380.77

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles

Based on 2/3 of total odometer miles being EV miles the odometer miles for payback is 90,641 miles

 

If gas prices rise to $4 a gallon then the payback period is sooner. If electric costs rise at the same rate as gas prices then the payback period would be longer. As you can see, the payback period is quite long. As you can also see, there are a lot of assumptions in these calculations. I assume that gas prices will average $3.75/gal over the next 10 years or so. I also assume that their electric rates will average $.135/kWh over the next number of years. I also use the assumptions that the Hybrid will get a year-round average of 45 MPG and that the Energi will average 40 MPG in EV Later mode. I also assume that the electric usage from charging the car will average 6.5 kWh per complete charge of the battery. This should be enough to include the power used by cabin preconditioning when so desired which increases the cost of the Energi. The Hybrid would not have any cabin preconditioning. If the Hybrid were to be run to precondition the cabin then the balance would shift in favor of the Energi. I do not include the costs to install a 240V charger because that is not a given. I also do not include any costs to rewire their garage to support 120V or 240V charging because they need to rewire their house (and are planning to this year) regardless of whether they buy an NRG.

 

In MN there are some things that don't work in favor of these calculations

• We have high electricity costs compared to other states
• We have lower gas prices than other states
• Our cold winters lead to a higher electricity usage to precondition the Energi cabin and lower fuel economy
• Our relatively high sales tax increases the Energi premium by almost $300

However I also made some assumptions that may not be the best predictions for future energy prices

• If gas prices increase at a faster rate than electricity costs then the Energi is a better deal (this seems more likely)
• If electricity rates increase faster than gas prices then the Hybrid is a better deal (this seems less likely)

Benefits of the Energi not factored in above

• Warm fuzzy feeling about driving in EV mode around town
• Time saved on trips to the gas station
• Time/money saved due to less oil changes
• Cabin preconditioning

Does anyone else see other factors I should include?

[acdii]

Wow, to think I used to do that before I got the Hybrids. Now that I have the Hybrids, all that is moot as there is no total cost to savings once you have a vehicle getting 40 MPG. The differences you posted between the two models though, great work. Now factor if going from a vehicle getting 20 MPG and how much quicker the Energi pays off vs the Hybrid.

[neod192]

Did you include the price of the 240V charger? In SE MI, the utility company (DTE) has a $2,500 toward the installation of a 240V charger and separate meter, so it's basically free.

 

I think charging faster at 240V uses less energy (so less$) than charging slower at 110V. This difference might be negligible in the big picture.

[hybridbear]

Wow, to think I used to do that before I got the Hybrids. Now that I have the Hybrids, all that is moot as there is no total cost to savings once you have a vehicle getting 40 MPG. The differences you posted between the two models though, great work. Now factor if going from a vehicle getting 20 MPG and how much quicker the Energi pays off vs the Hybrid.

The savings for them will be huge compared to the Chrysler 300M or the Nissan Murano around the city. The 300M gets about 18 MPG in town and the Murano about 15 MPG. That savings is not material to their decision of Energi versus Hybrid. Based on the savings over their current vehicles they have decided that the C-Max is 99% likely to be their next car. Now the issue is Hybrid vs Energi

 

Did you include the price of the 240V charger? In SE MI, the utility company (DTE) has a $2,500 toward the installation of a 240V charger and separate meter, so it's basically free.

 

I think charging faster at 240V uses less energy (so less$) than charging slower at 110V. This difference might be negligible in the big picture.

I don't believe there are any 240V charger incentives in MN. To start they probably would not buy the 240V charger. From what I've read on the NRG forum the 240V charger will never pay for itself and is more of a convenience feature because the 240V works better for cabin preconditioning. Since purchasing the 240V charger is not a given with buying an NRG it shouldn't be counted at this time. The decision to buy a 240V charger cannot be made until after the NRG is purchased based on their experiences charging with the 120V. Then they will have to do analysis of the cost of 240V versus the added convenience.

Edited April 10, 2013 by hybridbear

[expresspotato]

Keep in mind they have only been in production about a month or so now. People need to SEE them, and drive them before they will start to buy them. Are they priced too high? Possibly, but considering all the new tech and huge battery in them, they can be pricey to start with. When battery tech catches up with the rest of the market, and prices come down, then Hybrid and non hybrid cars will be priced very close to each other. If you look at Lincoln, both models are the same base price, dont know why the Fusion cant be that way.

I wish - can you just imagine how much better off the entire economy and individual people would be if the entire world drove hybrids / plug-ins?

 

We are literally burning money without them.

[acdii]

I wish - can you just imagine how much better off the entire economy and individual people would be if the entire world drove hybrids / plug-ins?

 

We are literally burning money without them.

Yes, and with that said, a thought came to my mind as I watched a moron in a Jeep speeding around people just to sit at a red light. By the time I caught up to her, the light had turned green and they had started rolling, I never had to stop, just kept on rolling.

 

It takes a Special kind of Stupid to race to a red light. Drive Smarter, not Faster!

[jeff_h]

It takes a Special kind of Stupid to race to a red light. Drive Smarter, not Faster!

 

I see this numerous times, every single day.

[acdii]

I want a bumper sticker with that saying.

[corncobs]

Here you go not quite what you wanted but it fits the topic.

 

http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2011/12/6/driving-the-limit.html

Found another one matches even better

http://www.zazzle.com/hypermiler_bumper_sticker_coast_anticipate_start-128691485353966485

Edited April 11, 2013 by corncobs

[acdii]

Here you not quite what you wanted but it fits the topic. <br />

<br />

<a href='http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2011/12/6/driving-the-limit.html'>http://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com/blog/2011/12/6/driving-the-limit.html</a>

 

Found another one matches even better

 

http://www.zazzle.com/hypermiler_bumper_sticker_coast_anticipate_start-128691485353966485

Love the last sentence

 

 

Being an ass doesn’t make the assholes go away, it only adds to the asshole count. Ignore them and in time they cease to exist.

[hybridbear]

I had some errors in my calculations, see below:

 

Fixed data

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a 3% APR: $3676.47

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $876.41

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 876.41/.02285 = 38,355 miles

This is based on the assumption that 2/3 of total odometer miles are EV miles

[hermans]

edit

Edited April 12, 2013 by hermans

[shaggy314]

Here are the calculations I've done for my parents on their comparison of a C-Max Energi and a C-Max Hybrid.

 

Energi w/ 302A pkg: $32,969 (invoice price not including tax credit)

Energi tax credit $3750

Hybrid: $28,944

Hybrid Rebate: $250

Ford Cash Offer: $750

 

Energi price subject to sales tax: $32,219

Energi sales tax at 6.5%: $2094.24

Hybrid price subject to sales tax: $27,944

Hybrid sales tax at 6.5%: $1816.36

 

Energi price premium: $4552.88

NPV of Tax Credit $3750 received 8 months after cash outlay based on a .25% APR: $3172.11

 

Energi price premium after tax credit: $1380.77

 

Assumptions

Electric costs: $.135/kWh including all taxes and fees

Gas costs: $3.75/gal

Energi EV range: 20 miles

Energi estimated real world MPG: 40 MPG

Hybrid estimated real world MPG: 45 MPG

 

Energi cost per mile

Assumptions

EV miles per week: 100

EV Later miles per week: 50

2/3 of total miles from wall charging

kWh to fully charge: 6.5 per 20 miles

Cost per 20 miles: $.88

Cost per mile EV: $0.043875

Cost per mile EV Later: $0.09375

Cost per 1000 miles: $60.48

Blended cost per mile: $0.06048

 

Hybrid cost per mile

$.083333

 

Energi cost savings per mile

$0.02285

 

EV miles to recover Energi premium = 1380.77/.049875 = 60,427 miles

Based on 2/3 of total odometer miles being EV miles the odometer miles for payback is 90,641 miles

 

If gas prices rise to $4 a gallon then the payback period is sooner. If electric costs rise at the same rate as gas prices then the payback period would be longer. As you can see, the payback period is quite long. As you can also see, there are a lot of assumptions in these calculations. I assume that gas prices will average $3.75/gal over the next 10 years or so. I also assume that their electric rates will average $.135/kWh over the next number of years. I also use the assumptions that the Hybrid will get a year-round average of 45 MPG and that the Energi will average 40 MPG in EV Later mode. I also assume that the electric usage from charging the car will average 6.5 kWh per complete charge of the battery. This should be enough to include the power used by cabin preconditioning when so desired which increases the cost of the Energi. The Hybrid would not have any cabin preconditioning. If the Hybrid were to be run to precondition the cabin then the balance would shift in favor of the Energi. I do not include the costs to install a 240V charger because that is not a given. I also do not include any costs to rewire their garage to support 120V or 240V charging because they need to rewire their house (and are planning to this year) regardless of whether they buy an NRG.

 

In MN there are some things that don't work in favor of these calculations

• We have high electricity costs compared to other states
• We have lower gas prices than other states
• Our cold winters lead to a higher electricity usage to precondition the Energi cabin and lower fuel economy
• Our relatively high sales tax increases the Energi premium by almost $300

However I also made some assumptions that may not be the best predictions for future energy prices

• If gas prices increase at a faster rate than electricity costs then the Energi is a better deal (this seems more likely)
• If electricity rates increase faster than gas prices then the Hybrid is a better deal (this seems less likely)

Benefits of the Energi not factored in above

• Warm fuzzy feeling about driving in EV mode around town
• Time saved on trips to the gas station
• Time/money saved due to less oil changes
• Cabin preconditioning

Does anyone else see other factors I should include?

 

You give the tax credit incorrectly. A tax credit offsets more income than jsut $3750 cash would. Depending on your income, it is a few times that at 15% tax rate, up to what ever it would work out for income in a 37% bracket (a little over double).