Cooling system stinks up car even in winter

[cincidaddi]

acdii showed me that wiper synchronization the other day very cool and that little jerk might just be what cincidaddi is seeing.

 

Something tells me gkinla is right on but we don't know if cincidaddi tried to actually use his wiper and then they stopped.

That's an interesting find, I didn't know to ask that question regarding the synching. I've already gotten the car back and they said they replaced the motor. Apparently they ran through a number of checks before finally replacing the motor. The root cause shall remain a mystery to me. Not sure why the wipers would have ever been touched/reversed. But anything is possible. The other goofy thing that happened came was my key getting broken. I'm not sure how, but they cracked the housing and made it so the release button would not work. They wound up replacing it, but it cost me yet another trip to there.

[Riggo]

That Y29 "fix" is sprayed on the evaporator coils, BK Fusion. If they don't replace the evaporator coil when they do the real fix you will probably still smell that horrible chemcal smell. I would hope you can get them to replace the evaporate coil that they have ruined. I say ruined because when they did it to my 2013 fusion the smell was unbearable when the heat was on and it never went away.

[BK Fusion]

Thanks Riggo, I'll bring that up with them when we get ready to do this.

[Easy Rider]

The problem appears to be some chemical in the plastic that the plenum was made with.....or maybe something that was left out of the mixture causing it to not cure properly.

And then comes along the "deodorizing" chemical, which might have mixed with the defective plastic to make something even worse.

 

So my guess is that the chemical on the metal evaporator is NOT the cause of the foul odor......because that is what it was designed for......and if they clean the evaporator it might be perfectly fine........might be.

[mwr]

There are almost 400 messages in this thread, far too many for me to look through. So...

 

My car is up for sale, and after I sell it I'll be getting an FFH. It might sell this weekend or next week (or not). I won't want to wait to custom order a car, but will probably be buying a 2014 model in stock at a dealer.

 

Does anyone know when the new TSB parts started being put into new cars? I don't want to buy one that will need to have that TSB done later. The build date of a particular car is available, but I don't know the build date I should be looking for as the earliest date I would accept.

[GrySql]

Does anyone know when the new TSB parts started being put into new cars? I don't want to buy one that will need to have that TSB done later. The build date of a particular car is available, but I don't know the build date I should be looking for as the earliest date I would accept.

This TSB 14-0099 pertains to some 2013-2014 Fusion and MKZ vehicles built on or before 2/24/2014, only. Models made after 2/24/2014 are not included.

[mwr]

This TSB 14-0099 pertains to some 2013-2014 Fusion and MKZ vehicles built on or before 2/24/2014, only. Models made after 2/24/2014 are not included.

Thanks. That "should" mean that all of those card built after 2/24/2014 have the new TSB parts in them. Does anyone know if that is really the case?

[Easy Rider]

I don't think any single individual can answer that question.

I don't believe that anyone here with a "late build" has reported the problem.

I certainly haven't had any trouble.

 

I tend to believe what the company says......at first at least. ;)

[BK Fusion]

There are almost 400 messages in this thread, far too many for me to look through. So...

 

My car is up for sale, and after I sell it I'll be getting an FFH. It might sell this weekend or next week (or not). I won't want to wait to custom order a car, but will probably be buying a 2014 model in stock at a dealer.

 

Does anyone know when the new TSB parts started being put into new cars? I don't want to buy one that will need to have that TSB done later. The build date of a particular car is available, but I don't know the build date I should be looking for as the earliest date I would accept.

Someone else might be able to definitively answer this, but the TSB is for cars produced before 2/24/2014 - Maybe that means that was the implementation date at the factory?

[jeff_h]

Someone else might be able to definitively answer this, but the TSB is for cars produced before 2/24/2014 - Maybe that means that was the implementation date at the factory?

 

Makes sense logically, isn't that the way it was also done with the headlight recall back in late 2012 and others where the build dates are specified? Once they test the fix and it passes OK everywhere, they would then first implement in assembly while they get the wheels in motion to supply the dealers to perform the recall or TSB fixes. And they would maybe have also been able to examine x number of assembly builds after that date to ensure that the fix is good and didn't introduce any new bugs before setting up the dealers for the unintended consequences, seems a wise thing to do before pressing forward with an action that will affect thousands of cars and hundreds of dealers making the fixes.

[GrayStrider]

 

I'm sorry, I must have missed the mention that the "allowance" would be extended.

 

It is a WARRANTY repair. The fact that it was approved by Ford in a TSB has no bearing on the standard WARRANTY provisions.

 

(And now I find that "multi-quote" doesn't work either.)

 

So, having 39K+ miles on ours, we won't have to worry about warranty issues with this repair?

[Easy Rider]

 

So, having 39K+ miles on ours, we won't have to worry about warranty issues with this repair?

 

If the standard warranty for that part is still in effect then it will be "covered".

 

But this might fall under the BtB coverage which may have expired at 36K.

Don't delay contacting your dealer.

 

They can and do extend coverage beyond the usual limits for unusual circumstances sometimes.

The TSB may even specify an extension.

 

Don't "worry" necessarily but do contact your dealer and find out.....soon.

[gkinla]

 

So, having 39K+ miles on ours, we won't have to worry about warranty issues with this repair?

 

Sorry, that allowance mention was for the car rental Ford will supply. There was a $100 allowance offered, but if it exceeded the $100, then ford will extend the payment.

 

Easy Rider is correct, get to the dealer ASAP.

Edited June 21, 2014 by gkinla

[scn101]

My 2014 FFH is now giving off a musty smell after sitting for a few hours. The smell seems to dissipate after about two minutes or so of AC run time. Really annoying though and totally kills the new car feeling (less than 4K miles right now). Also it is embarrassing when a passenger smells it, a coworker said upon a lunch run, "that's what you get for buying a Ford." A bit harsh of a statement but then again the vehicle is less than 6 months old. I guess the good news is that Ford has a fix, albeit a really involved fix.

 

That said, has anyone in the North Dallas/Plano, TX area had a dealer perform the TSB? How did they do? Any dealer recommendations? Considering the repair involves tearing the dash apart I'm hoping to find a competent dealer, or at least, to avoid a dealer with a poor track record. PM me if you don't want to post a reply that won't be applicable to most on this board (that don't live near Dallas, TX).

[Easy Rider]

The smell seems to dissipate after about two minutes or so of AC run time.

 

This might not be the same problem as is being discussed here.

 

There IS a "normal" tendency for a LOT of cars to get a slight musty odor in the AC in the summertime.

We got a little whiff of it in our Prius yesterday and it is only about 6 months old too.

[GrayStrider]

Got a regional service manager involved (thank you, Ashley) and have the car heading in for service in about an hour. We're out of the BtB warranty period (seriously, does anyone really drive only 12,000 miles a year, particularly if you are in CA?), so we'll see what they recommend. I'm worried it's going to cost us a bundle to have it fixed because we don't have an extended warranty on the car (hubby doesn't believe in them, but now I'm wishing we'd gotten it). Really wish Ford had a better regular warranty on their products like other companies do. Three years or 36K miles is pretty sad for a $32.5K vehicle purchase, IMHO. I thought it was just newer companies, like Saturn at the time, that had such a short warranty period. Wasn't a 5 year warranty the norm at one time? Will report back later with an update...

[Easy Rider]

At the risk of repeating myself..............

The AC stink problem in this thread only applies to vehicles made between certain dates and once it starts being noticeable, it never goes away and just gets worse.

So far, what you described does not sound like that at all.

 

If it is not one of "those" cars, the fix should be much easier and less expensive........but it might not last forever either.

 

If it IS one of those, the high mileage really doesn't have any impact on the fact that you have a factory defective part and hopefully they would replace it no charge anyway.

[GrayStrider]

From my understanding after reading all 20 pages of this thread, the smell is not associated with having the AC on, but rather, when you are using the vent only. The smell is a result of AC use, however, when moisture builds up and mold becomes an issue. The smell is very apparent when starting up the car without the AC on. It happens for vehicles built before February 24, 2014. I think our build date was in September 2012, so it qualifies. Or did I miss something?

 

Had ours serviced today. Long story short, they pulled the driver's side apart, flushed and deodorized the system. I have a few things to share with our regional customer service rep when he calls to follow up on Tuesday, so won't go into here yet. Our service advisor did tell us two things during today's service appointment - first, like mentioned earlier in this thread, you should turn the system off about 5 minutes before you arrive at your destination to allow the cooling system to unfreeze. Why weren't we told to do that when we purchased the car, so this problem wouldn't have happened in the first place? But then again, why should you have to do that anyway? Never had to on our Saturn VUE, and we've NEVER had a musty odor from our system on that vehicle, 8 years into ownership of it. Second, it was recommended that we park it by backing it into the driveway. It's not a steep driveway by any means, but there is a little bit of a slope to it.

 

Just curious... are those of you who are having the problem ever put it manually on vent instead of using the auto mode? We ran ours on auto for the first year and a half until reading on the forum about trying to improve MPG by putting it manually on vent to make sure the AC really was off when you only wanted outside air. We started doing that sometime around July or August 2013. We live in Southern California, so not much humidity here, which may explain why it took longer for our smell to develop? It seems like those in more humid areas have had it develop more quickly.

Edited June 28, 2014 by GrayStrider

[gkinla]

From my understanding after reading all 20 pages of this thread, the smell is not associated with having the AC on, but rather, when you are using the vent only. The smell is a result of AC use, however, when moisture builds up and mold becomes an issue. The smell is very apparent when starting up the car without the AC on. It happens for vehicles built before February 24, 2014. I think our build date was in September 2012, so it qualifies. Or did I miss something?

 

Had ours serviced today. Long story short, they pulled the driver's side apart, flushed and deodorized the system. I have a few things to share with our regional customer service rep when he calls to follow up on Tuesday, so won't go into here yet. Our service advisor did tell us two things during today's service appointment - first, like mentioned earlier in this thread, you should turn the system off about 5 minutes before you arrive at your destination to allow the cooling system to unfreeze. Why weren't we told to do that when we purchased the car, so this problem wouldn't have happened in the first place? But then again, why should you have to do that anyway? Never had to on our Saturn VUE, and we've NEVER had a musty odor from our system on that vehicle, 8 years into ownership of it. Second, it was recommended that we park it by backing it into the driveway. It's not a steep driveway by any means, but there is a little bit of a slope to it.

 

Just curious... are those of you who are having the problem ever put it manually on vent instead of using the auto mode? We ran ours on auto for the first year and a half until reading on the forum about trying to improve MPG by putting it manually on vent to make sure the AC really was off when you only wanted outside air. We started doing that sometime around July or August 2013. We live in Southern California, so not much humidity here, which may explain why it took longer for our smell to develop? It seems like those in more humid areas have had it develop more quickly.

On my 2013 FFH, the TSB was finished on June 3rd, I'm happy to say the odor hasn't returned. Also, no rattles or electrical problems, either. With my FFH, build date 11/28/2012, the smell started to be pronounced sometime in Janurary, 2014. The only time the I smelled the odor was when I turned on the A/C cooler. Like you, when I didn't need cooling, I manually turned the A/C pump off. I didn't have the musty smell using heat or vent. This year was a warm winter in SoCal, so in the morning, starting off in vent mode with the A/C pump off and keeping the cabin at 72 degrees, there was no musty smell. Later in the day when I turned on the cooling, it didn't matter whether it was auto or manual, the musty smell hit with a vengance. Mostly, when using cooling, I leave the A/C in auto mode.

 

When the dealer tells people to turn the cooling off 5 minutes before arriving, or park up hill or down hill, etc, I feel it's just a BS reaction trying to skirt the problem. This is the first car that I've owned that has had a musty smell when using the A/C. My 2010 FFH, 3 years, 63,000 miles, never had a musty smell. My wife's 2010 Prius, 40,000 miles, no musty smell.

 

One month prior to having the TSB performed, after complaning profusly, the dealer did the deodorizing. I think the chemical smell was worse intil it finally desipated after several weeks. Then shortly after, the musty smell returned. Luckily, the TSB was issued shortly after the deodorizing.

Edited June 28, 2014 by gkinla

[Easy Rider]

From my understanding after reading all 20 pages of this thread, the smell is not associated with having the AC on, but rather, when you are using the vent only. The smell is a result of AC use, however, when moisture builds up and mold becomes an issue.

 

There are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT situations that cause odors in the ventillation air.

 

One is "normal" and is common to a lot of cars after they are a few years old. Some models are worse than others because of the design of the condensate drains.

That is a little mold accumulation on the evaporator "coil" and in the drain pan. That situation is fixable without replacing any parts but to do it right does require some dis-assembly to actually get to the affected parts. End of that story.

 

Now comes along a batch of plastic vent housings that has a fault in the chemical formula making up the plastic.

Once they get wet or damp repeatedly, there is a chemical reaction in the plastic itself that creates a smelly chemical that will be there forever.

The only fix for that is to replace the defective part with a new one.

That procedure is long and complicated and, thankfully, should be covered under warranty for anyone who has THAT SPECIFIC PROBLEM.

 

Repeated cleaning of the evaporator and tray because the smell comes back 6 months later is NOT a warranty process.......if that needs to be done.

If you have that "normal" problem, turning the AC off, but not the air flow, a couple of minutes before reaching your destination can help a lot.

Recirc should also be turned off. 5 minutes is probably not really necessary.

[mwr]

One is "normal" and is common to a lot of cars after they are a few years old. Some models are worse than others because of the design of the condensate drains.

That is a little mold accumulation on the evaporator "coil" and in the drain pan. That situation is fixable without replacing any parts but to do it right does require some dis-assembly to actually get to the affected parts. End of that story.

...

Repeated cleaning of the evaporator and tray because the smell comes back 6 months later is NOT a warranty process.......if that needs to be done.

If you have that "normal" problem, turning the AC off, but not the air flow, a couple of minutes before reaching your destination can help a lot.

Recirc should also be turned off. 5 minutes is probably not really necessary.

In my experience of driving cars with AC, that's not normal (I've never encountered it), but instead should be considered a design defect. I would not be happy at all with a car that required such special handling of the AC. I'm curious as to how many owners of an FFH experience this so-called normal problem..

[GrySql]

In my experience of driving cars with AC, that's not normal (I've never encountered it), but instead should be considered a design defect. I would not be happy at all with a car that required such special handling of the AC. I'm curious as to how many owners of an FFH experience this so-called normal problem..

In your case, because you haven't purchased a FFH, I think the bigger question is: do any of the cars built after the TSB cutoff date have this musty smell?

Remember that this TSB refers to vehicles "built on or before 2/24/2014", so any built after that date should have the new parts installed.

[mwr]

In your case, because you haven't purchased a FFH, I think the bigger question is: do any of the cars built after the TSB cutoff date have this musty smell?

Remember that this TSB refers to vehicles "built on or before 2/24/2014", so any built after that date should have the new parts installed.

My impression from this discussion was that the issue I referred to was not the one the TSB addressed.

[SteveB_TX]

I have owned many a car in my 57 years, from 1965 Mustangs to the 2013 MKZh/FFH, and ZERO ( that's Z-E-R-O ) have had a musty smell from the A/C unit. None. Zip. Zilch. It's not a "normal" issue. I am keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that neither the MKZh or FFH develop this issue. :)

[scn101]

I have owned many a car in my 57 years, from 1965 Mustangs to the 2013 MKZh/FFH, and ZERO ( that's Z-E-R-O ) have had a musty smell from the A/C unit. None. Zip. Zilch. It's not a "normal" issue. I am keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that neither the MKZh or FFH develop this issue. :)

 

I totally agree it is NOT normal. I had a C5 Corvette that had this issue. Musty smell when the AC is first turned on after sitting for a few hours. The smell lasted about 5 minutes and was fairly intense. Every once in a while I'd spray Lysol down the cowl with the AC on and then switch off the AC to let the Lysol take effect overnight. That helped but never cured the issue. I came to find out that the official GM fix for my model was to install a control module that would turn on the blower motor in non-re-circulation mode 5 minutes after the car was shut off and would run the vent for 10 minutes. The thought was the hot outside air would dry the evaporator eliminating the odor. The module was almost $300 so I passed on it. Some GM cars didn't need the module and could be programmed for after blow. Truth is, I think GM is crap quality, so I took it in stride. I expect more from Ford. Right now the odor only lasts about a minute so I'm standing by on any repair. My 03 Sable that I had for twelve years never had this issue, nor did any of the four Taurus I had before the Sable. You can read about the GM problem here: http://tech.corvettecentral.com/2010/03/hvac-odor-technical-service-bulletin/

Edited June 28, 2014 by scn101