Cooling system stinks up car even in winter

[Barsoom]

I brought the car back to the dealer today.

 

1. They are going to bring in a dashboard repair person to treat the light cuts/scratches on the dashboard. They say the cuts won't be noticeable after the treatment is done.

 

2. The heard the rattles from behind the dashboard. They say they will have to remove the dashboard again and reinstall it.

 

3. They are not familiar with the active noise cancellation, and will have to research it and talk with Ford engineers to learn about it. I tried to explain that it was in press releases when the 2013 FFH's were first announced, as a solution to the low rumble growls that the engine produced, which has the extra effect of quieting down the road noise. My car sounded much louder after the dash was reinstalled, leading me to think that the active noise canceling was somehow damaged or disconnected during the process. I explained that the process is similar to Bose noise canceling headphones, that there is a microphone somewhere in the dash and a speaker (or via the audio system speakers?) that puts out a reverse sound wave to cancel the low frequency sounds. I wondered if a mic wire disconnected or a speaker wire disconnected when the dash was removed? Anyway, they have to study up on it to figure it all out.

 

Bottom line is that I have to bring the car back again on Monday and leave it for a few days while they fix the dashboard and check out the noise canceling.

 

Can anyone give me more details on the noise canceling, such as where the mic is located and what speakers are used?

 

Thanks.

[acdii]

The mics are in the head liner, one on each side front and one in the rear. It uses the audio system speakers. (I know this cause every so often it tries to cancel a school bus that goes by, GRRRUMBLE). My left leg gets a nice blast of low frequency air.

[GrySql]

Can anyone give me more details on the noise canceling, such as where the mic is located and what speakers are used?

I hope this helps:

---

Active Noise Control - HEV

The active noise control is an audio system feature that minimizes or cancels certain low frequency engine noises within the passenger compartment. The active noise control system is integral to the audio system utilizing 3 microphones and the DACMC.

The DACMC is a digital signal processor that consists of an internal analog/digital converter and tone generator.

While the engine is running, the microphones, located in the headliner (two in the front and one in the rear), monitor the engine noise resonating in the passenger compartment. The analog signals from the microphones are processed through the analog/digital converter integral to the DACMC. The DACMC receives the vehicles engine speed from the PCM and determines the frequency to be canceled from the engine speed data and microphones input signals. The DACMC produces an opposing output frequency signal from the internal tone generator. The DACMC send the opposing output frequency signal to the audio DSP module. The audio DSP module mixes the opposing output frequency signal from the DACMC and audio signals that are from the ACM. The amplified mixed audio signal are sent to the vehicle speakers eliminating some of the low frequency engine noise.

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by GrySql

[DeeCee]

New moderator! Good move. Glad to see your wisdom put to good use.

[Barsoom]

Thanks for all the information.

 

Next question: given the architecture of the active noise canceling system, is it possible that removing the dashboard could have damaged it?

 

Mic wires in the headliners pulled accidentally? Or does it connect through a wire block with easy in/out plugs? Something else?

[BK Fusion]

They are not familiar with the active noise cancellation, and will have to research it and talk with Ford engineers to learn about it.

 

This has been the most troubling aspect about dealing with this repair (other than them losing the key!). The techs/SAs/even the manager don't seem to know jack about these cars. It's really frustrating that every time I'm in the dealership I'm telling them about the repair. Ridiculous. ARE YOU LISTENING "Crystal"?

 

Our car went back in on Tuesday for the heater not working after TSB work was done. Also the dash vent trim piece had fallen out of the dash, and the grommets where the wiring harness from the doors had come apart on both sides. And the dash rattles behind the instrument cluster. Supposedly a hose was pinched not allowing the heater to function, and they fixed the trim piece/grommets. Now they want to replace the instrument cluster which they have to order. Ugh. So done with this.

[GrySql]

Every Dealership's Service Dept should have access to information for repairing or replacing every component on our cars.

The instructions are created and the relevant parts are color tagged so any semi competent Tech can read and follow the instructions.

 

The Dashboard is a big project and the Tech has to follow links to each component as it's removed/disconnected and replaced/reconnected.

This may be a daunting task for a small Dealership trying to get the job done within the rather short Warranty Job Work Hours that Ford imposes.

Ford's work hours allowance seems to be set for people that do this every day, not somewhere that has never done it at all - the Dealership can lose money on a job like this.

 

My super Dealer took 5 days on their first TSB 14-0099 job (Gkinla's) and 3 days on the second (mine) with two, and sometimes three, very smart Techs working on it.

Ford allows 34.5 hours total shop time for the whole job.

 

On my job they didn't plug in the trunk release button, which was easily solved.

My point here is to say that any TSB 14-0099 job is a challenge and with each individual Dealer YMMV.

 

To answer the question: Yes, many components can be improperly connected, squeezed, damaged during this dashboard removal/replacement process.

It took 3 people to lift out/replace my dashboard.

The ANC is built into the three different Entertainment systems on the FFH and has components that connect with wiring harnesses, like the headliner microphones, so anything is possible.

 

.

 

 

[justwanttodownloadthesb]

I have taken my 2013 Fusion SE in for the nasty AC smell. Getting the ...its your cabin filter line and it needs to be replaced and we can't smell anything from the AC. I am thinking of getting Go public-(CBC) to expose the reactions on people's faces when they smell the nasty musty-mildewy-moldy odour and contrast that with the— we can't smell anything line from the Ford dealer. The smell even stays on my clothes it so bad. New car smell??? What does that smell like?

 

Update 1 as of 2pm 9/25/14: The service manager reversed earlier position and was now able to find the nasty smell after the car sat for awhile. He said the part has been ordered. Will further clarify when I pick up the vehicle later on today.

Edited September 25, 2014 by justwanttodownloadthesb

[cincidaddi]

I have taken my 2013 Fusion SE in for the nasty AC smell. Getting the ...its your cabin filter line and it needs to be replaced and we can't smell anything from the AC. I am thinking of getting Go public-(CBC) to expose the reactions on people's faces when they smell the nasty musty-mildewy-moldy odour and contrast that with the we can't smell anything line from the Ford dealer. The smell even stays on my clothes it so bad. New car smell??? What does that smell like?

 

Update 1 as of 2pm 9/25/14: The service manager reversed earlier position and was now able to find the nasty smell after the car sat for awhile. He said the part has been ordered. Will further clarify when I pick up the vehicle later on today.

I had the same reaction at Kerry Ford in Cincinnati, OH. One of the service techs working on it directly told me they don't see how this will make any difference. The repair has made a HUGE difference. I think their sense of smell is directly affected by the significant job it is to remove and replace the dash. Everything eventually went back to normal after the repair with one exception of a .5" gap across where the dash meets the windshield. The gap exposes some black foam material, but no rattles or other anomalies. I pointed the gap out to the service advisor and he says they will have to pull everything out again to fix it and it wasn't worth it. Edited September 26, 2014 by cincidaddi

[FordService]

 

This has been the most troubling aspect about dealing with this repair (other than them losing the key!). The techs/SAs/even the manager don't seem to know jack about these cars. It's really frustrating that every time I'm in the dealership I'm telling them about the repair. Ridiculous. ARE YOU LISTENING "Crystal"?...

 

Sure am, BK Fusion, and whenever you run into an issue at a dealership, I want to know about it. I'll be happy to assist however I can.

 

Crystal

[BK Fusion]

Thanks Crystal. I've been in contact with a regional Customer Service person, and my call out with that post was probably out of line. My apologies. I'm a little sick of the corporate "we take your concerns seriously" which is generally nonsense. It's all about bottom line, and not customer satisfaction.

 

This has been a frustrating experience for us. We bought new vehicles (the fusion and a 2014 F150 Eco Supercrew) so that we wouldn't have to deal with major problems, and this has been way more than "major" in my opinion. There are always small issues with new vehicles, but this is something else. Ford should just take these vehicles back and compensate the owners who have had to deal with it. Real compensation, not the peanuts I've been offered.

[Former Expedition owner]

My HyTi is at the dealer right now and they are refusing to perform TSB 140099. I posted my story in the TSB thread before I found this thread. I also sent Crystal a PM.

 

Brought my HyTi in to the dealer I purchased my car from for an oil change, PCM update, navigation offset, remote start blows cold air, and the musty odor when A/C is activated.

 

Called on Tuesday Sept 16th for an appointment and was told they were booked until the following week. Made appointment for Thursday, Sept 25, dropped HyTi off at dealer at 5pm on Wednesday, Sept 24 with a specific list of the issues and associated TSB numbers.

 

No call from dealer on Thursday at the end of my work day, so I called them. "I was just about to call you", says Kirk at the service counter. Let me send a car to pick you up, which he did. When I arrived at the dealer, my HyTi was on the lift in the shop. Kirk tells me he wasn't going to be done with my HyTi today, so he will provide a loaner ('14 Fusion SE).

 

I have planned a trip this weekend and want to take my 41mpg HyTi, so I call Kirk at 10AM Friday morning to see when he will be done. Kirk says he will be done with everything except the musty odor A/C issue. When I ask why, he said he couldn't replicate the issue and would not perform the work. I told him that the smell happens on initial startup after sitting for a while. He said I never told him that and refuses to perform the work. I told Kirk that I was getting the feeling he didn't want to do the work because it would take about 7 hours to do. Kirk claims he could not replicate the smell, we proceed to get into a "discussion" on how I can smell it, I'm the customer, and I would like it fixed. Kirk refuses to perform the work and says I will have to leave my car there for a few days so he can replicate the smell. I told home that he has had the HyTi for two days now, he should have found the smell. He said I could pick up my car in an hour, without the "musty odor A/C" work completed.

 

Signed,

Extremely Frustrated Former Expedition Owner

[SteveB_TX]

Gotta love lazy dealerships. My question is, can a dealership actually REFUSE to do warranty work because they just don't want to do the work? My Ford dealership refuses to repair my MKZ just because he doesn't want to do the work (repairs not related to the musty smell BTW). I was told to take it to the Lincoln dealership (which I will NEVER do). Can a dealership LEGALLY refuse to do warranty work?

Edited September 26, 2014 by SteveB_TX

[GrySql]

You both need to get the Zone CSM involved, that is sub-standard customer service, Crystal should be able to help you.

Are both these Dealers FFH EV certified?

You can look up their qualifications up on the Ford website, use the Ford Dealer Locator, type in your Zip code and the 'Electric Vehicle' buttons.

 

Personally, I think any Dealer Service Dept that refused to do work on a car shows how little they are capable of - BTDT.

Edited September 26, 2014 by GrySql

[Barsoom]

I got my car back after 3 days.

 

1. They had a local dashboard repair person fix the scratches in the dashboard. It looks fine now.

2. They said that the rattle was coming from the CD player that must have gotten loose when they reinstalled the front panel. They tightened everything and put a "rattle kit" on it. No more rattle.

3. They said that the active noise canceling system was working fine. This one was always a stretch.

 

So I guess the car is finally okay after over a year and a half.

 

Update:

 

I forgot to mention that when I went through the buttons when picking up the car, the parallel parking assist threw up an error message. The technician took the car back into the garage. He came back 10 minutes later and said that when he hooked it up to the diagnostic computer, it was working again. Couldn't explain why, but he drove it and tested it.

 

Maybe it's subliminal, but I do think the car is quieter again. I wonder if the computer that controls these things had a hiccup and reset itself somehow. Or it's my mind playing tricks on me regarding the noise level.

 

But the parking assist did error out and something caused it to reset.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Barsoom

[gj00101]

Hello all. Like a couple folks here my Ford service department advisor stated he "could not replicate" and refused to perform TSB. After speaking to the Service Manager he agreed to perform the maintenance in conjunction with some other minor items I brought my FFE in for. But, now that I realize my entire dash will be torn apart and my car may not be the same after I am thinking of canceling and just living with that horrible funk from my AC. Am I being paranoid? I have a few days before the parts arrive to decide.

[GrySql]

Mine works fine now, no bad smells. There were a couple minor after repair issues, they were quickly dealt with.

I would not, nor would my wife, put up with that moldy/mildew smell.

Edited October 30, 2014 by GrySql

[gkinla]

I also had the TSB performed. I had no issues with the changing of the A/C plenum. That funk you smell may have bad mold or fungus spores being blown into the cabin...not a good thing. Have the work done. It's under warranty and they have to make it good.

[justwanttodownloadthesb]

Hooray!!! I had mine fixed and returned today. It is like having a new car again. The bonus is now don't need that strong air freshner to mask the odour—that was a double whammy. The real litmus/smell test was no allergic reaction after driving 3 times today. I am ecstatic.

 

Everything seems tight and right, all the buttons seem to work and the trade-off for the invasiveness of the remedy is more than worth it. I haven't had the chance to test every button and function yet but as of now can't spot any problems—will update further if any arise. Thanks to this forum as well as Ford service canada for the assistance and crucial information needed to get this stinky problem fixed.

 

Back to happy.

Edited October 30, 2014 by justwanttodownloadthesb

[gj00101]

Thank you all for responding and giving me the confidence to go ahead with the maintenance to finally stop the AC funky smell.

 

justwanttodownloadthesb, please keep us all informed about any issues post-TSB.

[Easy Rider]

Thank you all for responding and giving me the confidence to go ahead with the maintenance to finally stop the AC funky smell.

 

 

You do realize, I hope, that the condition covered in the TSB ONLY applies to certain vehicles built in something like a 6 month time window........

And if your's does not fit the qualifications listed in the TSB, you and the dealer might be wasting a lot of time and money.

 

There are other things that can cause the funky smell.

It might be useful in the future to have your car's model year listed in your profile.

[GrySql]

You do realize, I hope, that the condition covered in the TSB ONLY applies to certain vehicles built in something like a 6 month time window........

And if your's does not fit the qualifications listed in the TSB, you and the dealer might be wasting a lot of time and money.

In gj00101's original Post it was stated that the Service Manager agreed to perform the repair described in TSB 14-0099. The OP's concern was the removal of the dashboard and any problems it might cause.

 

"Some 2013-2014 Fusion and MKZ vehicles built on or before 2/24/2014 may exhibit a musty or organic-type odor from the front vents when air conditioning (A/C) is activated."

The time period of affected cars is much longer than 6 months, the entire TSB 14-0099 can be seen here.

 

[gj00101]

Some 2013-2014 Fusion and MKZ vehicles built on or before 2/24/2014 may exhibit a musty or organic-type odor from the

front vents when air conditioning (A/C) is activated.

 

Yep, unfortunately I fit that "mold"...

[acdii]

I'm curious what happens after the warranty if they start to develop this issue. I rarely use AC, but on occasion when I did, I did catch a whiff of stink, but it cleared quickly.

[GrySql]

ESP Premium Care repairs only failed components on their list below.

 

It looks to me that this provision in TSB 14-0099 makes it a BtB Warranty item only.

WARRANTY STATUS:

Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB.

Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.

 

 

Air Conditioning & Heating*

• A/C clutch
• A/C accumulator
• A/C clutch bearings
• A/C compressor
• A/C compressor head
• A/C compressor seals
• A/C compressor/clutch switch
• Automatic temperature control
• Condenser
• Evaporator
• Field coil
• Heater blower motor
• Heater control cables
• Heater core assembly
• Instrument panel registers and air ducts
• Pulley

Edited October 31, 2014 by GrySql