A FFH in my future?

[AptosDriver]

Hi all,

 

I am seriously considering buying a new hybrid sedan for my wife in 2011, to replace her 2000 Volvo S70. I already own an '07 Toyota RAV4 and I'm very happy with it, so of course I have been looking at Toyota's Camry hybrid (not interested in the Prius). Because Consumer Reports has given the FFH such high marks, I'm also taking a hard look at it as well. A couple of issues concern me, however. First, the FFH has gone through only one model year so far, and I'm skeptical as to whether its high reliability ratings will hold up over time. Second, it bothers me that Ford is producing so few of them -- something like only 25,000-30,000 units/year. That's not a mark of strong commitment to this car on Ford's part. Of even more concern to me is that with such limited production, dealers don't sell many of them, therefore don't service many of them. So I have to wonder how much experience dealership service departments have with the FFH and how good they are at solving whatever problems they may have. (Toyota, by contrast, has been producing and selling the Camry hybrid since '06, has sold a lot of them and their dealers have lots of experience servicing them.)

 

I would very much appreciate hearing anybody's thoughts on these issues as I continue to do my "due diligence" on the FFH.

:)

I would like to thank all below for their responses to my initial question. Continuing with my due diligence, I have been browsing this entire forum to learn what kinds of problems people are having with the FFH, and I've noticed a number of electronics-related issues. I'm really concerned about these as the FFH is just going into only its 2nd model year and it seems it has a number of bugs that need to be fixed. And, because the car is so new and still in relatively short supply, I worry that the dealer service departments don't fully understand all the electronics/software/computer issues yet. I learned some 35 years ago (when I bought a first-gen VW Rabbit) that it does not pay to be an early-adopter. And I'm thinking that 2011 may be too early buy this car ...:cry:

Edited December 25, 2010 by AptosDriver

[Fuze-ion]

I think Ford has sold more than 25-30,000 FFH's. Also, they have been producing the Hybrid Escape for three years. I believe it is the same set-up as the FFH. I agree all dealerships are not familiar with working on them, and have to rely on the network for support. There have been some with problems, but many are functioning without any issues. This is true with all new technology. Everything is improved upon, by realizing it's faults / limitations.

[mort]

So I have to wonder how much experience dealership service departments have with the FFH and how good they are at solving whatever problems they may have. (Toyota, by contrast, has been producing and selling the Camry hybrid since '06, has sold a lot of them and their dealers have lots of experience servicing them.)

 

I would very much appreciate hearing anybody's thoughts on these issues as I continue to do my "due diligence" on the FFH.

:)

Hi Aptos,

The FFH hybrid system is pretty similar to the Camry. The 2010 and later models are uniquely Ford, the same system is used in the Escape hybrid. But still similar to the Toyota design. The Ford Escape hybrid went on sale in 2004, so I'd say Ford has enough years experience in hybrid service. I think Camry sales started low too, after all, over 4 years they've sold 167,000, about 42,000 a year average. That said, if you check priuschat.com, about once a week somebody complains that their Toyota dealer doesn't understand their Prius, and there are millions of those. I mean it will be a long time before you can be confident that any dealer, much less independent will have experience and expertise in any hybrid.

 

But... I have a Fusion Hybrid and expect my dealer to be able to fix anything that goes wrong.

 

-mort

[lolder]

The FFH has a higher "High Tech Toy Fun Factor" than the TCH due to it's displays and Sync. I hear the TCH is a very nice car and very similar to the FFH in performance and may be somewhat softer riding.

[Grey]

We have had over 100 new vehicles including Jaguars, Lincoln/Mercury, Ford and Chevrolets. Our FFH is the best built, technologically advanced and fun to drive vehicle we have ever owned/leased. The biggest problem I have with it is that my wife thinks it's hers and makes me drive the MKX.

[AptosDriver]

I just drove the FFH for the first time today. I really liked the way it drove and rode. I took it up a fairly steep grade on the local freeway and it held its speed nicely. I must've been doing something right, because the display sprouted lots of leaves. :beerchug: They also had a couple of MKZ hybrids on the lot. Sat in one of them. It felt very luxurious. But the MSRP on that car was something like $41,000. I'm sure it could be gotten for less, but I've got a problem with paying more than $30 K out the door. It's not the principal of the deal; it's the principle. I just can't justify to myself paying more than $30 K for a car. Anyway, we'll see. At this point the FFH and TCH are running neck-and-neck for my money.

Edited December 20, 2010 by AptosDriver

[AptosDriver]

They also had a couple of MKZ hybrids on the lot. Sat in one of them. It felt very luxurious. But the MSRP on that car was something like $41,000. I'm sure it could be gotten for less, but I've got a problem with paying more than $30 K out the door.

I just checked Consumer Reports.org price report. CR's "bottom-line" price for a base-model MKZ is $31,875. With the exception of a moon-roof, the base, standard-equipped car has everything we would want, and more. Although CR complains that the interior should be "better finished" for a car in this price range.

[Kelly Trusz Urban]

well just search my recent threads here and you'll determine my answer :)

[rfruth]

nothing big changed from MY 2010 to 2011 for the FFH, a good sign in my book - as for the Fusion vs Camry thing like someone said the FFH is more 'hybrid' than the Camry (higher MPH for EV mode, better MPG etc. but the Camry has a Marsh mellow like ride so if that is important (not that the Fusion has a harsh ride by any means) a test drive of both may be in order (both in the same day if possible) bet you can guess how I voted :)

 

http://www.cars.com/...ids=11615,12015

Edited December 21, 2010 by rfruth

[runutzzzzz]

I just drove the FFH for the first time today. I really liked the way it drove and rode. I took it up a fairly steep grade on the local freeway and it held its speed nicely. I must've been doing something right, because the display sprouted lots of leaves. :beerchug: They also had a couple of MKZ hybrids on the lot. Sat in one of them. It felt very luxurious. But the MSRP on that car was something like $41,000. I'm sure it could be gotten for less, but I've got a problem with paying more than $30 K out the door. It's not the principal of the deal; it's the principle. I just can't justify to myself paying more than $30 K for a car. Anyway, we'll see. At this point the FFH and TCH are running neck-and-neck for my money.

 

Forget about the Toyota Camry Hybrid. I had one for 2 years and 36K miles. Squeaks, rattles all over. Interior Fit and finished sucked. Toyota customer service is HORRIBLE! Resale value also stinks.

 

Only a few things make the TCH better over the my FFH is that it was quieter because the air intake was at the nose, not the fender, ride is softer, climate control was a lot easier to use and the Eco meter was much better designed to make you "improve" your MPG. Besides that I'm happy my TCH is gone. It was my first and my last Toyota.

[AptosDriver]

I'm happy my TCH is gone. It was my first and my last Toyota.

Sorry about your experience with your TCH. Many years ago I had a Toyota Corona wagon and I wasn't crazy about it. But I love my '07 Toyota RAV4 6-cylinder limited AWD. It runs like a charm with lots of power to spare when I need it and excellent mileage, considering it's a small SUV (21 mpg in mixed driving locally and as high as 30 mpg on road trips). That's why my first thought was to consider the TCH for our next sedan. But I do like the FFH a lot and I appreciate all the responses to my original question here.

[drolds1]

FWIW, the first Ford Escape hybrid taxicabs used in San Francisco were retired after traveling over 300K trouble-free miles with no major issues and still using the original batteries.

 

Link

 

Also, don't forget that battery manufacturing capacity is/was limited. This could affect sales volume, although hybrid sales in the U.S are not exactly breaking any records right now.

[CometFlash]

I just checked Consumer Reports.org price report. CR's "bottom-line" price for a base-model MKZ is $31,875. With the exception of a moon-roof, the base, standard-equipped car has everything we would want, and more. Although CR complains that the interior should be "better finished" for a car in this price range.

 

The base-price MKZH has less options than a loaded FFH, for basically the same price. I would buy an FFH fully-loaded for 31k before I even thought of getting a base MKZH for the same price, unless none of the cool tech goodies interest you of course.

 

The MKZH differences really come in to play when you start to add-on the upgrade packages, especially the best one that includes NAV, Adaptive HID headlights, A/C seats, etc. Of course, that's also when the much higer price tag comes in to play as well.

 

I'm leaning towards a fully-loaded MKZH myself, if for nothing else than the extreme interior quiet I keep hearing about in reviews. Then again, there are rumors out there that Ford may talk about some of its upcoming hybrid vehicles at the Detroit Auto Show in early january, so that could change my mind. And of course, the upcoming all-new 2013 FFH & MKZH are not that far away either. So many choices... :headspin:

[AptosDriver]

 

The MKZH differences really come in to play when you start to add-on the upgrade packages, especially the best one that includes NAV, Adaptive HID headlights, A/C seats, etc. Of course, that's also when the much higer price tag comes in to play as well.

This will primarily be my wife's car, and she is a technophobe; can't/won't even operate the Comcast cable remote. And I don't care about having a built-in NAV. A stand-alone Garmin will do just fine for me/us. I'll most likely go for a moderately loaded FFH (we want a moonroof at least; and we can live without leather seats). We'll see what's on the dealers' lots come spring. :shift:

[Zzyzx]

AptosDriver,

 

This thread was a great idea. I didn't even know this forum existed until after I purchased my FFH. I have had my car about 3 weeks and I am very happy with my purchase. I think the car is very well built and find that the ride is the smoothest of any car that I have ever driven. I am kicking myself a little bit because I "settled" on the color (sterling gray). But then again, I got such a great deal on the car that I couldn't pass it up. I may add a spoiler to spruce it up a bit.

[mirak]

I chose a FFH over the Prius and the Camry, mainly because I liked the interior and exterior better, and the tech was superior. The LCD instrument panels are awesome, and the "mood ring" lighting is a fun touch. by comparison, the Camry just seemed like a boring old Camry. There's very little to distinguish (besides MPG) that it is a hybrid. You're wife might actually like that, if she isn't into the tech.

 

Both cars have great reliability, and both appear to do about the same MPG-wise (I think the FFH gets slightly better MPG, and the advanced instrument panels make it easier to hypermile).

 

Since your wife isn't itnerested in the tech, I think the choice will really come down to:

(a) Price: Don't know how these cars currently stack up in price, but remember that anyone can get access to Ford's x-plan pricing.

(B) Interior/Exterior preference: Totally subjective.

 

Don't be afraid to tell the salespeople you're also considering the FFH/Camry, and see what they say! Be sure to report back here what the Toyota salespeople have to say about the FFH.

[AptosDriver]

the Camry just seemed like a boring old Camry. There's very little to distinguish (besides MPG) that it is a hybrid. You're wife might actually like that, if she isn't into the tech.

 

Since your wife isn't itnerested in the tech, I think the choice will really come down to:

(a) Price: Don't know how these cars currently stack up in price, but remember that anyone can get access to Ford's x-plan pricing.

(B) Interior/Exterior preference: Totally subjective.

Thanks for the advice. I still want to get a car that both of us will enjoy (I'll drive it on occasion), if for different reasons. I don't think my wife would have any trouble reading the LCD instrument panel. She can keep an eye on the speedometer and the gas gauge and ignore the other stuff -- like she already does; she wasn't paying attention to the coolant temperature gauge on our Volvo last spring, when it was overheating because of a thermostat problem, but that's another story. :drop: My understanding is that you can dumb down the panel display if you want. I don't know if the FFH has personalized settings for different drivers. As for all the other stuff, she'll ignore that too. As long as she knows how to use the climate control system and operate the radio, that'll be enough.

 

As for price comparison with the TCH, the FFH is definitely more expensive, a fully loaded FFH being several thousand dollars more than a fully loaded TCH. Likewise for the base models. I will keep shopping them both for the time being. As for what the Toyota salespeople say about the FFH, when I took a TCH out for a spin last month, the salesman claimed that Ford had "licensed" Toyota's hybrid technology for use in the Fusion. I "Googled" that issue and came up with an article that explained that Ford had done some "cross licensing" with Toyota to avoid lawsuits. I don't know what that entailed. Maybe some money changed hands. Anyway, the Toyota salesman was either misinformed or deliberately misleading. :finger: (It's actually Nissan that uses Toyota's hybrid system in its Altima hybrid.) People on this forum say that the Fusion hybrid drive train evolved from the Ford Escape hybrid and is Ford's own technology.

[mirak]

Thanks for the advice. I still want to get a car that both of us will enjoy (I'll drive it on occasion), if for different reasons. I don't think my wife would have any trouble reading the LCD instrument panel. She can keep an eye on the speedometer and the gas gauge and ignore the other stuff -- like she already does; she wasn't paying attention to the coolant temperature gauge on our Volvo last spring, when it was overheating because of a thermostat problem, but that's another story. :drop: My understanding is that you can dumb down the panel display if you want. I don't know if the FFH has personalized settings for different drivers. As for all the other stuff, she'll ignore that too. As long as she knows how to use the climate control system and operate the radio, that'll be enough.

 

As for price comparison with the TCH, the FFH is definitely more expensive, a fully loaded FFH being several thousand dollars more than a fully loaded TCH. Likewise for the base models. I will keep shopping them both for the time being. As for what the Toyota salespeople say about the FFH, when I took a TCH out for a spin last month, the salesman claimed that Ford had "licensed" Toyota's hybrid technology for use in the Fusion. I "Googled" that issue and came up with an article that explained that Ford had done some "cross licensing" with Toyota to avoid lawsuits. I don't know what that entailed. Maybe some money changed hands. Anyway, the Toyota salesman was either misinformed or deliberately misleading. :finger: (It's actually Nissan that uses Toyota's hybrid system in its Altima hybrid.) People on this forum say that the Fusion hybrid drive train evolved from the Ford Escape hybrid and is Ford's own technology.

 

I took a quick look at Edmunds and you're right, a fully loaded Camry would probably run you about $2500 less than a loaded FFH. That's a pretty significant price difference. It would be difficult to ever recoup that difference in gas savings from the FFH's slightly better MPG. The FFH was much more competitive in early 2009 when it was still eligible for a $1700 tax credit.

 

For me, I'd still pay the price premium because the FFH is so fun to drive. The tech is superior, and I think the interior fit and finish is better, too. If you go to Edmunds, you'll note that one of the criticisms of the Camry is the cheap interior finish, but you can judge for yourself by sitting in both cars. With either car, I'd definitely recommend the leather.

 

The FFH's instrument panel does have 4 different display modes, from very basic information to very detailed. There are no personalized settings that I know of, but I've got a 2010 model.

 

As for the Ford / Toyota licensing issues, there's a lot of reading on the internet about that. Some say it's true, some say its false. I don't really care. All that really matters to me is how the car performs, and the FFH gets better MPG than the Camry. It's actually pretty telling that this is all the Toyota salesman had to say! The FFH eats the Camry's lunch in most respects, but that price difference is pretty significant...

[AptosDriver]

The FFH was much more competitive in early 2009 when it was still eligible for a $1700 tax credit.

 

For me, I'd still pay the price premium because the FFH is so fun to drive. The tech is superior, and I think the interior fit and finish is better, too. If you go to Edmunds, you'll note that one of the criticisms of the Camry is the cheap interior finish, but you can judge for yourself by sitting in both cars. With either car, I'd definitely recommend the leather.

 

All that really matters to me is how the car performs, and the FFH gets better MPG than the Camry. It's actually pretty telling that this is all the Toyota salesman had to say! The FFH eats the Camry's lunch in most respects, but that price difference is pretty significant...

The price premium of the FFH over the TCH is not a high hurdle for me. (And I feel very fortunate to be in that position.) I can go with the car I like the best. And since we tend to keep our vehicles for at least 10 years, when I "amortize" the extra cost over that period, it doesn't seem so bad -- $200-$300 a year at most, depending on how good a deal I can wrestle from the dealer. I really like the way the FFH performs, but I also liked the way the TCH performed. The best test would be to rent each one for several days back-to-back. And again, fortunately, I can afford to do that. (I rented a Toyota RAV4 for a weekend before finalizing my decision to buy our RAV4 Limited back in April '07.)

 

As for finding an FFH with leather, etc. and leveraging a price close to Consumer Reports' "bottom line" cost, I see a problem. At the moment, these cars seem to be in short supply. The dealers around here (Santa Cruz, Calif.) have no more than three or four, max, on their lots and mostly base models. Some have only one or two. Even the Ford dealers "over the hill" in Silicon Valley (AKA, the Santa Clara Valley and "Peninsula") have mostly base models on their lots. My understanding is that the way to negotiate the best deal on a car is to go in at the end of the month when the dealers are under pressure to move more vehicles in order to reduce their "flooring costs" -- the monthly interest they have to pay the banks on the loans they take out to acquire their inventory from the manufacturers. But if they don't have much inventory of the car you want, they're not under as much pressure and it's harder to deal. (When I drove an FFH earlier this week, the dealer I went to had only one of them, whereas they had a couple of Lincoln MKZ hybrids. Makes me wonder if Ford and its dealers are trying to push people like me into a higher-end car by restricting the supply of the FFH.) Real bottom line: Actually finding getting a good deal on an FFH with the all options I would want ain't going to be easy. It's easier to find Camry hybrids. Gee, I wonder why.:headscratch:

[paulbuck]

Hi all,

 

I am seriously considering buying a new hybrid sedan for my wife in 2011, to replace her 2000 Volvo S70. I already own an '07 Toyota RAV4 and I'm very happy with it, so of course I have been looking at Toyota's Camry hybrid (not interested in the Prius). Because Consumer Reports has given the FFH such high marks, I'm also taking a hard look at it as well. A couple of issues concern me, however. First, the FFH has gone through only one model year so far, and I'm skeptical as to whether its high reliability ratings will hold up over time. Second, it bothers me that Ford is producing so few of them -- something like only 25,000-30,000 units/year. That's not a mark of strong commitment to this car on Ford's part. Of even more concern to me is that with such limited production, dealers don't sell many of them, therefore don't service many of them. So I have to wonder how much experience dealership service departments have with the FFH and how good they are at solving whatever problems they may have. (Toyota, by contrast, has been producing and selling the Camry hybrid since '06, has sold a lot of them and their dealers have lots of experience servicing them.)

 

I would very much appreciate hearing anybody's thoughts on these issues as I continue to do my "due diligence" on the FFH.

:)

Very interesting question. I am torn between the technological advances, styling of the FFH and the 'nit-picky' things that bother me about it: rear seats don't fold down, can't tow anything, delay in the throttle action, etc. I had looked at the Camry SE (non-hybrid) before I bought the FFH, but then the 'throttle/brake' issues of the Camry popped up and swayed me to go with the FFH.

I'm not sure I made the right decision, as I am retired now and don't put on the mileage like I used to, so it's going to take me that much longer to make up the hybrid price difference.

[AptosDriver]

Very interesting question. I am torn between the technological advances, styling of the FFH and the 'nit-picky' things that bother me about it: rear seats don't fold down, can't tow anything, delay in the throttle action, etc. I had looked at the Camry SE (non-hybrid) before I bought the FFH, but then the 'throttle/brake' issues of the Camry popped up and swayed me to go with the FFH.

I'm not sure I made the right decision, as I am retired now and don't put on the mileage like I used to, so it's going to take me that much longer to make up the hybrid price difference.

When I drove the FFH this week, I didn't really notice a throttle action delay. I drive pretty smoothly and by the time we got back to the dealership, the "vine" on the instrument panel was full of leaves. I pushed the car pretty hard going up a decent grade on the local freeway, just to see how easily it could maintain the 65 mph speed limit there. It did OK. Maybe a better test would have been to put it into cruise control there, but there was too much traffic for that. I didn't notice any problem with the Camry hybrid either when I took a short spin in one last month. It seemed to accelerate very smoothly in a merge with freeway traffic. And it was equally smooth in stop-and-go surface-street driving. But then as I said, I'm a pretty smooth driver anyway. :headspin: As for whether you made the right decision: It's the right decision if you enjoy the car, even if you don't put enough mileage on it to make up for the price premium over the Camry.

 

I am also retired. The FFH would be for my wife, who insists that she doesn't want a new car. She wants to keep driving our nearly 11-year-old Volvo S70 GLT SE. We've had it nearly 10 of those years (it spent it's first year in a rental fleet and had 12,500 miles on it when I bought it; we've put 100,000 more miles on it since then), and it's been a good car for us. But it's a light turbo and it requires mid-grade gas at least. And with gas prices headed north, I think a hybrid would be a good car for us/her. My main car is a 6-cylinder '07 RAV4 Limited. I bought it new in spring '07. It's been great. That's why I looked at it first.

[runutzzzzz]

When I drove the FFH this week, I didn't really notice a throttle action delay. I drive pretty smoothly and by the time we got back to the dealership, the "vine" on the instrument panel was full of leaves. I pushed the car pretty hard going up a decent grade on the local freeway, just to see how easily it could maintain the 65 mph speed limit there. It did OK. Maybe a better test would have been to put it into cruise control there, but there was too much traffic for that. I didn't notice any problem with the Camry hybrid either when I took a short spin in one last month. It seemed to accelerate very smoothly in a merge with freeway traffic. And it was equally smooth in stop-and-go surface-street driving. But then as I said, I'm a pretty smooth driver anyway. :headspin: As for whether you made the right decision: It's the right decision if you enjoy the car, even if you don't put enough mileage on it to make up for the price premium over the Camry.

 

I

 

What premium? My TCH fully loaded was $32,7xx vs my FFH loaded was $32,9xx? Where are you guys getting this $2500?

[akirby]

the salesman claimed that Ford had "licensed" Toyota's hybrid technology for use in the Fusion. I "Googled" that issue and came up with an article that explained that Ford had done some "cross licensing" with Toyota to avoid lawsuits. I don't know what that entailed. Maybe some money changed hands.

 

ALL of Ford's hybrid technology is Ford's. When Ford developed the Escape hybrid, they found 22 Toyota patents that were similar to what they had developed. To avoid a potential patent infringement lawsuit Ford approached Toyota about licensing the patents. Toyota wanted access to some of Ford's diesel engine patents so they swapped patent licensing - no money changed hands.

 

When Ford came out with the 2010 Fusion Hybrid they rewrote the software related to the 22 patents so they were no longer in question. Ford NEVER received any help from Toyota. They both wrote similar software and Toyota patented it first.

[AptosDriver]

ALL of Ford's hybrid technology is Ford's. When Ford developed the Escape hybrid, they found 22 Toyota patents that were similar to what they had developed. To avoid a potential patent infringement lawsuit Ford approached Toyota about licensing the patents. Toyota wanted access to some of Ford's diesel engine patents so they swapped patent licensing - no money changed hands.

 

When Ford came out with the 2010 Fusion Hybrid they rewrote the software related to the 22 patents so they were no longer in question. Ford NEVER received any help from Toyota. They both wrote similar software and Toyota patented it first.

Ah, ha!:party2:

[mirak]

As for finding an FFH with leather, etc. and leveraging a price close to Consumer Reports' "bottom line" cost, I see a problem. At the moment, these cars seem to be in short supply. The dealers around here (Santa Cruz, Calif.) have no more than three or four, max, on their lots and mostly base models. Some have only one or two. Even the Ford dealers "over the hill" in Silicon Valley (AKA, the Santa Clara Valley and "Peninsula") have mostly base models on their lots. My understanding is that the way to negotiate the best deal on a car is to go in at the end of the month when the dealers are under pressure to move more vehicles in order to reduce their "flooring costs" -- the monthly interest they have to pay the banks on the loans they take out to acquire their inventory from the manufacturers. But if they don't have much inventory of the car you want, they're not under as much pressure and it's harder to deal. (When I drove an FFH earlier this week, the dealer I went to had only one of them, whereas they had a couple of Lincoln MKZ hybrids. Makes me wonder if Ford and its dealers are trying to push people like me into a higher-end car by restricting the supply of the FFH.) Real bottom line: Actually finding getting a good deal on an FFH with the all options I would want ain't going to be easy. It's easier to find Camry hybrids. Gee, I wonder why.:headscratch:

 

I did not realize FFHs were in such short supply. Granted, you're in California, the hybrid capital of the U.S., but that still surprises me. If you want to get a good deal on a FFH, your best bet is using Ford's "x-plan" pricing. X-plan is a special "haggle-free" price program available to friends and family of Ford employees, or employees of certain Ford-affiliated companies, but anybody can get an x-plan pin number, if they know how.

 

The price is a few hundred more than the dealer's true invoice price (which is sometimes lower than the "invoice price" reflected on Edmunds). Also, the only extra fee permitted under x-plan is the standard $750 destination charge, plus a maximum $75 "doc fee" (at least, this was the rule back in 2009). No ridiculous $500 doc fees or other fees dealers try to add on in the back room. Thus, x-plan can result in pretty significant savings. While I have heard of a few people actually doing better than x-plan this summer when dealers were really hurting, x-plan is probably about as good as you can get. Plus, it's haggle-free. Ford actually requires that the x-plan price be printed on each dealer invoice, which the dealer has to show you if you ask to see it.

 

There are two tricks to x-plan: First, the dealers are not required to sell all cars at x-plan price, expecially cars that are in short supply. Thus, even if you find the car you want in CA, the dealer might not accept x-plan for that car. The first dealer I found in KS back in spring 2009 wouldn't take it, because he only had two FFHs on the lot, but I found another dealer across town who would. Second, you need to get yourself an x-plan pin. There's many ways to do this:

1. Did you work for a large company? They might be a Ford affiliate. You can look this up on the internet.

2. Do you have an e-trade account or otherwise buy/sell stock? If you buy one share of stock, you can request an x-plan pin. You can sell the stock at any time. Google it.

3. Do you know anybody who works for Ford? Each employee gets something like 4 x-plan pins per year that they can give out.

4. Go to this website and ask for a pin! Be patient and polite. This is how I got mine.