Should I move up to the MKZH?

[mikenmar]

I love my Fusion Hybrid. It's a 2010, about 13k miles on it, still looks as good as new.

 

Would it be worth it to move up to the MKZH? I don't have a good feel for how much money I could get for the Fusion, either trade-in or on the used-car market. I looked around the local used car market and didn't see any hybrids, just non-hybrid Fusions, and the Ford website also doesn't give the trade-in value of a 2010 hybrid. Anyone have a feel for what the value of this car is?

 

Second, would it be worth it, in your opinion? Say it costs an additional $20k or so in cash. Am I basically getting the same core automobile, with a few extra luxury items tacked on? If there's nothing fundamentally "better" about the car in terms of build/quality, and it's just a matter of a few extra luxury items with a slightly more chic appearance, I'd be less inclined to spend the dough.

[xmech2k]

Did you go to Edmunds.com and try the 'Appraise your car' feature, in the Used Car section? Should be helpful.

 

Edit: Actually, use this link. It's much easier to use.

 

Good luck!

Edited November 27, 2010 by xmech2k

[mikenmar]

^^ Thanks. Here's what it gives me. I'd be surprised if I could actually get these prices, though:

 

Edited November 27, 2010 by mikenmar

[CometFlash]

I've been trying to decide whether to buy an FFH or MKZH myself. Also was interested to see trade values, as I NEVER see any FFH's traded-in, just gas versions. And I mean ZERO, I've been looking for months now. So I went to KBB.com figuring that the value would be very high since no one is trading them in. Surprise, a fully-loaded FFH (502A, RMST,etc) that sells for just over 30k/31k, is only worth about 20k at trade. So figure a good 10k trade loss at the minimum.

 

As far as "Is the MKZH worth the added cost?" Well, that's a great question; one I have been going back and forth on the past few months.

 

Some of the cool stuff the MKZH has that FFH doesn't:

* Adaptive HID's

* LED tails

* THX II audio system

* A/C seats

* BridgeofWeir leather

* Bright Chrome rims

 

Depends how much these items mean to each person. To some, they may certainly not be enough to justify the added expensive between the two vehicles.

 

I've also done extensive searching online for info on these vehicles over the past 3 months. From what I can gather, even though they share the same architecure, the MKZH has different programming that makes it drive quite a bit differently than the FFH. It's supposedly a lot more refined, more tuned for luxury and refinement than for speed or hadnling like the FFH leans more towards. Supposedly the difference between how the two drive and handle is fairly significant because of this, which surprised a lot of testers (who gave kudos to Ford for being able to achieve this with just programming alone).

 

There is also a lot of mention in how Ford did an even greater job in the MKZH to reduce any type of noise, vibration and harshness. Talk of it being "tomb-like in it's quietness".

 

Speaking of noise, it has the THX II audio system, though I haven't been able to find any info on that in terms of how it sounds, real-world experience compared to standard radio, etc.

 

Any differences in appearance or color choices is purely subjective and will vary greatly between individuals. Personally I do think the MKZH looks like a more expensive vehicle, although the tail lamps being so large could take some getting used to. What I would like to hear is how much of a difference, if any, the adaptive HID's make. I have searched high and low but cannot find any reviews of how these work, and if they are worth the cost or not. And I've looked at like a hundred or more reviwes and road tests of both of them, but it's as if the HID's don't exist in anyone's view or thoughts. Very sad. :(

 

Worthe the 10-12k difference? I'm still undecided at this point, although the sound issue alone makes me lean toward the MKZH just because I absolutely despise any squeeks or rattles in my vehicle. Even my Platinum F-150 has them, and it stickered at $52k. Can you believe that? It be true. No more noise! That's BIG for me, but like I said, to each his own to what's important.

 

Maybe some current owners on this forum can give better insights to some of the questions you have that I couldn't, simply because I don't own one...yet. My data is all just from months and months of extensive research online.

[mikenmar]

^^^ Thanks for all the info. If I didn't already have a Fusion, I'd definitely spend the extra $$ for the MKZ. A lot harder to take the hit on selling a still-pretty-new car.

[Moosehead]

It's never 'worth it' to trade in a car in the first couple of years. Depends if you are happy or not. There will always be another car that is a bit newer or a bit nicer than whatever you have. This is one reason for leasing :)

 

I have a Fusion Sport, but was originally going back and forth with the sales guy on an MKZ - then changed my mind when I saw a Fusion Sport and liked the styling better (by the way, this is a terrible negotiating tactic.) If I were to move up to anything in the Lincoln line I'd probably go for an MKS EcoBoost as my next car, just for the sake of something that doesn't remind me too much of my previous car.

I really don't understand people who buy 5 Camry's in a row (or why Toyota makes commercials bragging about it.) I want something different each time.

The only thing I noticed in the MKZ vs Fusion is that the MKZ seats are way more comfortable.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Moosehead

[CometFlash]

It's true. Financial advisors will always recommend keeping an automobile for a minimum of 10 years to get the maximum financial value out of it before it's makes financial sense to get another one because of age, wear & tear, mechanical repairs after 10+ years, etc.

 

But the fact he is considering an MKZH after having an FFH for such a short time must say something for the appeal and quality of this vehicle. Reminds me of myself, as I've owned 4 brand-new loaded F-150's since 1996. Just love that vehicle. But now that I'm buying a home it's time to go from fun to fiscal, meaning an MKZH or FFH within the next 6 months. Good to hear people like them so much they'd consider another over something else. :)

 

EDIT: I did find a couple reviews recently re: THX II audio system, and they both said it sounded phenomenal! Unfortunately, still haven't found any real-world reviews of how the Adaptive HID's are compared to standard headlamps.

Edited November 29, 2010 by CometFlash

[MKZ 2011]

We shopped both cars and bought the MKZ.

 

They say they are based on the same car technology, but the feel was different. We could tell as soon as we drove both the same afternoon. We needed smooth and quiet and liked the MKz better. That and the AC Seats. That is why we bought the MKz.

[mikenmar]

We shopped both cars and bought the MKZ.

 

They say they are based on the same car technology, but the feel was different. We could tell as soon as we drove both the same afternoon. We needed smooth and quiet and liked the MKz better. That and the AC Seats. That is why we bought the MKz.

 

What do you think of the audio system?

[drolds1]

 

EDIT: I did find a couple reviews recently re: THX II audio system, and they both said it sounded phenomenal! Unfortunately, still haven't found any real-world reviews of how the Adaptive HID's are compared to standard headlamps.

 

I really thought that the adaptive HIDs were going to be a gimmick but I've found them to be quite helpful. My daughter moved to a home in a very dark area and they sure come in handy getting in and out of her driveway. They're even noticeable when I turn into my own street, which has only one streetlight in the middle of the block.

 

I also love the way they do the self-check on startup, rotating to the right. Cool B)

[CometFlash]

Thanks! That's the kind of real-world info I've been looking for.

 

Leaning more 'n more towards the MKZH every day. Will place an order for FFH or MKZH in March so I can have her before my wedding in June. Unless the new Focus really wow's me, but it's somewhat expensive in it's own right and I don't think it will get nearly as good CITY mpg, which is what I want.

[georgeny]

It's never 'worth it' to trade in a car in the first couple of years. Depends if you are happy or not. There will always be another car that is a bit newer or a bit nicer than whatever you have. This is one reason for leasing :)

 

Been fighting this argument for years as someone who trades not one , but two cars every 2.5 to 3 years, and often for a later model of the same car. In recent years Honda Accords. I have gone from Nissan Maxima and Altima ( my car and wife's car ) to Acura TL to Accord. I almost always buy top model, leather etc, of which ever vehicle I am buying. I never lease ( merely another form of financing with no advantage and the disadvantage of having to concern yourself with mileage and damages for return. WHY?

 

After FIRST ( many,many, years ago ) if you get that paid off or buy outright you are all set to take my route if you do average mileage, 15 k a year, and reasonably care for your vehicle. In general it costs me each two to three years ( now three years ) similar to leasing without downpayment or firs/last month payments. I own the car and what I do in future is optional on my part. My key, I never drive a car that is not under warranty! Since I do little mileage not commuting now I will keep cars very close to three years. When I go in and do the deal I usually walk out, MY CAR and 6 to 10 k depending on what I am buying so lets say 8 and my car. A variable for me is that in NY states and local sales tax does not apply to trade value. An immediate savings of over $2000 in my deals. Couple to 3 grand off sticker, dealing top of line highest margin.

 

SO say 8,000 over 36 months always driving new car under warranty cost me $222.00 a month. Routine Maintainence now a days TWO oil changes. First one at my dealer FREE. Entire maintainence during my term 31.95 ( some times I put on a wiper blades at 2 years... If vehicle were to break down call dealer for tow and repair, never happened to me.

 

So compare that to real number of your 10 year hold, remember depreciation car gets wholesaled coming so probably going to cost you what and your car for the new, 20 k ?How much you put into car during the ten years, tires, batteries just routine IF no major problem?

 

If you do actual numbers holding 10 years probably might win IF you had NO problem over the DECADE. If you did then I will bet MY WAY wins. Plus I get comfort and security of driving a car that lost that new car smell but not the feel. I let next guy put on the new tires, belts whatever. I let them worry that power train warranty is ending etc.

 

Now as far as why same car, especially with Accord which sometimes changes little. Good know reliable, comfortable car, get a new color. When tired or something else catches eye then I make change. WHICH is why I am this forum now. Friend recently purchased 2011 Fusion Hybrid and I am considering one in future basing my decision on his experience AND YOURS. I am also considering the MKZ or Hybrid MKZ. My love of cars, laugh if you must, is the dash and instrument panel appearance. That's what I see when I drive, let you guys and my wife concern themselves about exteriors. The Fusion has one way KEWL currently unmatched dash and instrument panel.

 

Now here is one problem I now have following my routine. It was really, numbers wise, a good deal when wife and I both commuted, even when it was only the wife. Now the problem her 2008 Accord EXL is due for timely trade BUT has only 9,600 miles on it. My 2009 has a bit to go but it also has but 10,700 on it and now that we alternate cars for trips we both doing together ( the majority of them now both retired ) obviously both cars doing less than 7,500 miles a year. So trading in cars 3 years old with less than 15k miles. Even I have to scratch my head. The correct answer buy ONE car, whatever we want high end and continue on way we have. Trouble is both of us used to having our own cars and occasionally that is useful.

 

If we stay with two cars then Fusion Hybrid for me looks good in future early 2012 late 2011. If go to one car MKZH looks good ( need memory seat ) for one car family. But let me honest, I can be persuaded to go MKZH in 2 years even if maintain two cars. I now I am a baaaaad boy, so, persuade me please!

 

George in NY

[akirby]

SO say 8,000 over 36 months always driving new car under warranty cost me $222.00 a month. Routine Maintainence now a days TWO oil changes. First one at my dealer FREE. Entire maintainence during my term 31.95 ( some times I put on a wiper blades at 2 years... If vehicle were to break down call dealer for tow and repair, never happened to me.

 

So compare that to real number of your 10 year hold, remember depreciation car gets wholesaled coming so probably going to cost you what and your car for the new, 20 k ?How much you put into car during the ten years, tires, batteries just routine IF no major problem?

 

If you do actual numbers holding 10 years probably might win IF you had NO problem over the DECADE. If you did then I will bet MY WAY wins. Plus I get comfort and security of driving a car that lost that new car smell but not the feel. I let next guy put on the new tires, belts whatever. I let them worry that power train warranty is ending etc.

 

Wow - you are the king of rationalization. So it costs you $8K in depreciation for the first 3 years of owning the vehicle. You're correct that it doesn't really matter whether you buy or lease you still end up paying the depreciation either way - it's just a different way of doing the numbers. The exception is that some mfrs subsidize leases because it almost guarantees a repeat customer in 2-3 years but I thnk a lot of that dried up the last 2-3 years.

 

There's nothing wrong with trading every 2-3 years if that's what you want to do. But don't try to justify it by saying that it's cheaper than buying a car and driving it for 10 years. It's not even close!

 

Let's say it's a $20K car and it's only worth $2K after 9 years. That's $18K in depreciation. During the same time you've paid $24K in depreciation on 3 new vehicles, not counting the initial investment to pay off the FIRST car. Throw in 2 sets of tires ($800) plus one major service at 100K plus fluid and filter changes in between and you're looking at less than $2k maintenance.

 

Keeping the car for 9 years is still $4K or almost $40/month cheaper ($24K vs. $20K). And that's using your best case depreciation ($8K over 36 months on a $20k vehicle) vs. worst case (only worth $2K after 9 years). If you change it to $10K on yours and $4K on the 9 yr old vehicle which is probably more realistic and you have $30K vs. $18K for a $12K difference.

 

Even throwing in a big repair won't affect the comparison.

 

 

Please note I'm not disagreeing with getting a new car every 2-3 years if that's what you want to do. I just don't agree with the financial conclusion that it's cheaper or the same price as keeping a car much longer.

[georgeny]

Wow - you are the king of rationalization.

 

I can agree with that in some circumstances hahaha. Instead of breaking out the spreadsheets we can agree to disagree so that we don't take this too far afield from the topic.

 

The question really is, what is the significant benefit (S) of MKZH versus Fusion Hybrid loaded? I switched from an Acura TL to a Honda Accord ( TL base car ) fully loaded and never looked back. Saved thousands while feeling the Accord was a better feel for me. I am looking NOT to that again, pay more and enjoy it same or less.

 

George in NY

[akirby]

I can agree with that in some circumstances hahaha. Instead of breaking out the spreadsheets we can agree to disagree so that we don't take this too far afield from the topic.

 

The question really is, what is the significant benefit (S) of MKZH versus Fusion Hybrid loaded? I switched from an Acura TL to a Honda Accord ( TL base car ) fully loaded and never looked back. Saved thousands while feeling the Accord was a better feel for me. I am looking NOT to that again, pay more and enjoy it same or less.

 

George in NY

 

As they say it takes one to know one and I was a master rationalizer at one time. Now I force myself to stop and look at the facts more objectively. I may still spend the money but at least it's an objective decision. I will say that it has stopped me from buying something on impulse more than a few times.

 

As to the Lincoln vs. Ford - you'll get a quieter ride, better materials, a longer warranty and potentially better service depending on your local dealers. You'll also get a few additional options like cooled seats and a THX stereo.

 

We've had 2 Lincolns and typically prefer them over the comparable Ford but we bought a 2008 Edge over the MKX and saved about $4K, plus we liked the Edge styling better inside and out.

The way I looked at it was would I rather have the MKX or the Edge with $4K cash sitting in the passenger seat.

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

[CometFlash]

I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

 

Agreed.

 

And you know, from what I've been hearing it shouldn't be too long before we start hearing/seeing more about the all-new 2013 FFH/MKZH. Sounds like it'll hit sometime in early 2012. And, not that there was any doubt, from the few spy shots recently it looks like the hybrid will be back; along with the regular gas versions obviously.

 

Perhaps they will differentiate the two vehicles more with the new one, although I'm sure they will still be visually close to each other as they'll basically be the same vehicle platform and body structure, as always. But maybe they'll add more tech stuff to the Lincoln version building it from the ground-up this time. Then again, from every report I read, they say the two vehicles right now both feel like different vehicles once you get in and drive them, even though they look almost the same. I haven't driven either one, but even without driving them there's just no other choice for me when it comes time to buy a hybrid. The escape is butt ugly and doesn't get as good MPG. And that's it, unless you leave Ford Motor Company, which just ain't happening. Too much good luck with all my Ford's over my lifetime. Everything else just sucked. I even had a cadillac once, and it was easily the worst piece of dung I ever owned. FoMoCo all the way.

 

Now, let's see. FFH, or MKZH... :P

[akirby]

Perhaps they will differentiate the two vehicles more with the new one, although I'm sure they will still be visually close to each other as they'll basically be the same vehicle platform and body structure, as always. But maybe they'll add more tech stuff to the Lincoln version building it from the ground-up this time. Then again, from every report I read, they say the two vehicles right now both feel like different vehicles once you get in and drive them, even though they look almost the same.

 

You have to remember that the current MKZ was created back in 2005 before Ford declared that all Lincolns would have unique sheetmetal. As a result the MKZ shares the same greenhouse with the Fusion (roof, doors and glass). Going forward that will not be the case and all Lincolns will get unique sheetmetal, engine options, interiors and other things. Think Flex vs. MKT - totally different vehicles inside and out.

[CometFlash]

FYI: The 4 Year/50k complimentary coverage plan for all Lincoln vehicles... nope, not on the MKZ Hybrid. Just like Ford with their Fusion Hybrid, every offer has the little asterisk saying *does not include Lincoln MKZ Hybrid / *does not include Ford Fusion Hybrid. So that benefit is null & void if it was a decision making factor for anyone. Personally it doesn't bother me, but I'm the type of person who will buy a new vehicle rather than deal with auto problems.

[rfruth]

when might the plug - in hybrid version of the MKZ be out, 2012 - how about the Fusion ? (i'm waiting for both but would prefer the Lincoln :))

[runutzzzzz]

Just a FYI, a bunch of MKZ Hybrids just went through the wholesale auctions as factory cars and can be bought for the low 30's which is a huge savings compared to a new one.

[akirby]

when might the plug - in hybrid version of the MKZ be out, 2012 - how about the Fusion ? (i'm waiting for both but would prefer the Lincoln :))

No plans for CD3 PIH that I've heard. I think it would be targeted at a B (Fiesta) or C (Focus) sized vehicle. I expect hybrid, PIH and EV Focus versions.

[mikenmar]

Just a FYI, a bunch of MKZ Hybrids just went through the wholesale auctions as factory cars and can be bought for the low 30's which is a huge savings compared to a new one.

 

So how does one get one of these? Just ask your local dealer?

[MKZ 2011]

Just a FYI, a bunch of MKZ Hybrids just went through the wholesale auctions as factory cars and can be bought for the low 30's which is a huge savings compared to a new one.

 

Where do I get one of these?

[MKZ 2011]

What do you think of the audio system?

 

One of my wife's favorite things is to show off the "Demo" on the surround sound really loud! It's great! With the quiet ride and the great sound system, songs that I thought I knew sound even better.

[runutzzzzz]

So how does one get one of these? Just ask your local dealer?

 

 

Where do I get one of these?

 

If you know a wholesaler, they can goto the next auction and pick one up for you for a small fee.

 

These are the prices of the recent ones. Check cars.com and match the mileage up. Just a FYI, add about $1000-$2000 in auction fees / reconditioning fees / transport fees and you will have the actual cost of the cars to the dealer. With a lot of them with lower milage, I can't see them needing too much reconditioning needed.

 

Offer a dealer $1000 over what they have in it and they just might take it.

 

 

11/29/10 ST LOUIS Factory $35,000 855 Avg WH PLATN 4H A No

11/29/10 ST LOUIS Factory $33,400 6,274 Avg WH PLATN 4H A No

11/29/10 ST LOUIS Factory $33,300 6,245 Avg TUX BLCK 4H A No

12/07/10 CHICAGO Factory $31,200 11,285 Avg BURG, 4G A No

12/07/10 CHICAGO Factory $30,800 4,148 Avg SILVER 4G A No

12/07/10 CHICAGO Factory $30,250 8,469 Avg BURG, 4G A No

12/07/10 CHICAGO Factory $29,000 8,196 Avg SILVER 4G A No

12/07/10 CHICAGO Factory $29,000 5,516 Avg RED 4G A No

12/13/10 ST LOUIS Factory $31,700 9,613 Avg STERLING 4G A No

12/13/10 ST LOUIS Factory $31,000 9,531 Avg RD CANDY 4H A No

12/13/10 ST LOUIS Factory $30,000 7,250 Avg WH PLATN 4H A No

12/13/10 ST LOUIS Factory $29,400 4,760 Avg INGOT SL 4G A No

12/13/10 ST LOUIS Factory $28,900 9,438 Avg STEELBLU 4G A No