Dead Battery ?

[bdub]

Hello all,

I have been a avid reader of this forum for some time and don't recall seeing this topic so please forgive if it is a repeat.

I tried to start my FFH after it setting for ~ two weeks and found that everything was dead no headlights, dashlights, door chimes, nothing so I concluded that the battery was dead and not being familiar with jump starting a hybrid I checked the manual to make sure I minimized any mistakes. I used a jumper box and connected the positive lead to the battery and the negative to what I thought would be a good ground, one of the bolts/nuts on the strut tower and observed much arcing when I tried to connect so decided to just hook it to the battery.

When I did that all the lights came on and the car started right up with no problems, I disconnected the jumper box and within a minute the engine shut off and the car went into electric mode, I thought I would have to jump the car again however everything was normal, I turned the car off and it started right back up as if the battery had already charged. any thoughts ?

[lolder]

Check your twelve volt battery. If it has a red dot in the view window, you have a problem. There have been some problems with the original 12 vdc battery. I assume you have no warning advisories displayed on the instrument cluster. Don't ever hook the last jumper lead to the battery or disconnect it from the battery first. Find a ground on the engine.

 

Lee

Edited January 6, 2010 by lolder

[Zacher]

A Tip:

 

If you are going on holiday, or leaving the car sit for two weeks without being started, disconnect the Negative Cable from your battery. This goes for hybrids and all vehicles alike. This is also specified in the Owners Manual.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Zacher

[lolder]

When my car was delivered in July, the battery viewer hole was slightly red. I pointed this out and the dealer said "Drive it". I did and in about a week it turned green. It remains green. I think the DC to DC converter that charges the 12 vdc. battery may not charge it as fast as we're accustomed with a regular alternator. There may be more "keep alive" current drain with the car off than other cars. I think that some cars drained the 12 vdc battery in shipment which may have damaged them. This battery is also fairly small for an electronic mountain of a car since it doesn't have to start the ICE. The Prius has the same issues. Keep an eye on the battery viewing port. There is an advisory message if the DC to DC converter is faulty.

 

Lee

[bbf2530]

A Tip:

 

If you are going on holiday, or leaving the car sit for two weeks without being started, disconnect the Positive Cable from your battery. This goes for hybrids and all vehicles alike. This is also specified in the Owners Manual.

 

 

Hi zacher. :D Thanks for the information.

 

However, just to correct an inadvertent mistake and avoid any confusion for others who may not take the time to read the Owners Manual, this is a direct copy and paste from the 2010 Fusion Hybrid Owners Manual concerning long term vehicle storage and battery care:

 

Low and high voltage battery – storage

Your vehicle must be started and run for a minimum of 10 minutes once

a month in order to maintain the high voltage battery charge. This will

maintain the high voltage battery but it is not enough to maintain the

low voltage (underhood) battery and additional low voltage (underhood)

battery charging may be required after 60 days.

If your vehicle is to be stored for 30 days or longer, the low voltage

(underhood) battery negative terminal must be disconnected. Failure to

do this could damage your vehicle’s batteries.

 

So according to Ford, if the vehicle will not be driven for 30 days or more, it is the negative terminal which needs to be disconnected.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

Edited January 6, 2010 by bbf2530

[Zacher]

Good find :D.. darn it and I said Positive... what was I thinking lol!

[Oman]

Unlike a normal car the 12V battery does not start the hybrid. All the 12V battery has to do is engage the high voltage relay. Once the relay is engaged the DC to DC converter will be charging the battery immediately (without the ICE running) and supplying the 12V needed to run the car. So a completely dead battery won't let the car start but if there is just enough left in it to get the converter running then you will have full 12V.

 

Have the battery load-tested. All auto parts stores and dealers will do this (most for free). The alternative is to turn the car off and leave the headlights on for 15 or 20 minutes. Since the hybrid does not start using the 12V battery this should indicate a reasonable battery state if the lights stay bright for that long.

 

There are battery drain time-out protection circuits on just about everything - except the accessory 12V outlets. 2 weeks is far too short a time for a dead battery unless you left something plugged-in. I have had cell phone chargers that eat 500ma of current even when no phone was plugged into them. That will kill the battery in a few days.

 

Jon

 

 

When my car was delivered in July, the battery viewer hole was slightly red. I pointed this out and the dealer said "Drive it". I did and in about a week it turned green. It remains green. I think the DC to DC converter that charges the 12 vdc. battery may not charge it as fast as we're accustomed with a regular alternator. There may be more "keep alive" current drain with the car off than other cars. I think that some cars drained the 12 vdc battery in shipment which may have damaged them. This battery is also fairly small for an electronic mountain of a car since it doesn't have to start the ICE. The Prius has the same issues. Keep an eye on the battery viewing port. There is an advisory message if the DC to DC converter is faulty.

 

Lee

[bdub]

The car wouldn't start again today, I checked for the red dot in the Battery and that appears to be the problem. The dealership said they would come and tow it to there shop load test the battery and check for anything that could cause a voltage draw then replace the battery if needed. I hope thats all there is to it. Never, ever, ever, hook the ground cable to the battery when jumping a car , I've heard that before now the question is why ?....could it be H2.

[lolder]

Yes!

[dogfox66]

I had similar symptoms today, but the car had been driven on a 100 mile trip 7 days before and used several times thereafter. The battery should have been fully charged, but the view glass was red. I jumped the battery with a portable jump-starter. I had no problem using lugs on the strut tower for ground. With key in run position, everything lit up immediately. I got the impression that I could have jumped the car with a small lantern battery. This comports with comments elsewhere in this thread that the 12V. only serves to close a relay and plays no part in turning the engine over.

 

Actually failure to start had happened once before soon after taking delivery, but car eventually started without jumping.

 

This is a new 2010 FFH with less than 800 miles on it now.

 

Today, the battery view glass was still red after driving the car for an hour on the highway. Battery terminals clean and tight. No evidence of outgassing/residue from cell vents which might occur with heavy charging current. A check of the system using steering wheel switches and driver's display indicated that the charging system was OK. Wish to hell it had an charging ammeter in the display.

 

If this happens to you, don't let anyone tell you to just go out and drive the car. I might start carrying a small lantern battery with alligator clips if this is a common problem with FFHs. And trading soon for a Subaru.....

 

It goes to the shop for a check tomorrow.

 

Don

 

Hello all,

I have been a avid reader of this forum for some time and don't recall seeing this topic so please forgive if it is a repeat.

I tried to start my FFH after it setting for ~ two weeks and found that everything was dead no headlights, dashlights, door chimes, nothing so I concluded that the battery was dead and not being familiar with jump starting a hybrid I checked the manual to make sure I minimized any mistakes. I used a jumper box and connected the positive lead to the battery and the negative to what I thought would be a good ground, one of the bolts/nuts on the strut tower and observed much arcing when I tried to connect so decided to just hook it to the battery.

When I did that all the lights came on and the car started right up with no problems, I disconnected the jumper box and within a minute the engine shut off and the car went into electric mode, I thought I would have to jump the car again however everything was normal, I turned the car off and it started right back up as if the battery had already charged. any thoughts ?

[akirby]

The car wouldn't start again today, I checked for the red dot in the Battery and that appears to be the problem. The dealership said they would come and tow it to there shop load test the battery and check for anything that could cause a voltage draw then replace the battery if needed. I hope thats all there is to it. Never, ever, ever, hook the ground cable to the battery when jumping a car , I've heard that before now the question is why ?....could it be H2.

 

It can cause a spark which can ignite any lingering hydrogen gas from the dead battery.

[Oman]

You have a bad battery or an unusual (and likely non-factory) power draw. Make sure you have NOTHING in the 12V ports - they have no cut-off protection. The dealers are not used to the fact that there is no draw-down to start the car and this is usually how they diagnose this issue if it is a bad battery. If you have and have had nothing plugged-in accessory wise in the car then the battery is bad. There is continuous DC/DC converter diagnostics running on the car which would immediately error out if there was a 12v high or low voltage condition.

 

The dealer can place a low current meter on the battery when the car is off and measure the draw. If it is excessive then they should be able to track it down. If it is not then they should replace the battery.

 

Jon

 

 

I had similar symptoms today, but the car had been driven on a 100 mile trip 7 days before and used several times thereafter. The battery should have been fully charged, but the view glass was red. I jumped the battery with a portable jump-starter. I had no problem using lugs on the strut tower for ground. With key in run position, everything lit up immediately. I got the impression that I could have jumped the car with a small lantern battery. This comports with comments elsewhere in this thread that the 12V. only serves to close a relay and plays no part in turning the engine over.

 

Actually failure to start had happened once before soon after taking delivery, but car eventually started without jumping.

 

This is a new 2010 FFH with less than 800 miles on it now.

 

Today, the battery view glass was still red after driving the car for an hour on the highway. Battery terminals clean and tight. No evidence of outgassing/residue from cell vents which might occur with heavy charging current. A check of the system using steering wheel switches and driver's display indicated that the charging system was OK. Wish to hell it had an charging ammeter in the display.

 

If this happens to you, don't let anyone tell you to just go out and drive the car. I might start carrying a small lantern battery with alligator clips if this is a common problem with FFHs. And trading soon for a Subaru.....

 

It goes to the shop for a check tomorrow.

 

Don

[dogfox66]

Thanks for the useful info. I appreciate the knowledgeable posts by you and others.

 

The battery was replaced after test/charge/retest. Dealer service also performed "99P PERFORM ARGIS INSPECTION 1397 ISF" per the service slip. Very good experience with dealer service department and responsiveness and actions of service manager and service personnel.

 

Are there online links to deep technical info on the DC/DC converter and charge system? I'd sure like to have schematics and technical explanation of how everything works. How much useful real-time information on battery state and charging system can be derived from the displays available?

 

D.

 

You have a bad battery or an unusual (and likely non-factory) power draw. Make sure you have NOTHING in the 12V ports - they have no cut-off protection. The dealers are not used to the fact that there is no draw-down to start the car and this is usually how they diagnose this issue if it is a bad battery. If you have and have had nothing plugged-in accessory wise in the car then the battery is bad. There is continuous DC/DC converter diagnostics running on the car which would immediately error out if there was a 12v high or low voltage condition.

 

The dealer can place a low current meter on the battery when the car is off and measure the draw. If it is excessive then they should be able to track it down. If it is not then they should replace the battery.

 

Jon

[lolder]

Thanks for the useful info. I appreciate the knowledgeable posts by you and others.

 

The battery was replaced after test/charge/retest. Dealer service also performed "99P PERFORM ARGIS INSPECTION 1397 ISF" per the service slip. Very good experience with dealer service department and responsiveness and actions of service manager and service personnel.

 

Are there online links to deep technical info on the DC/DC converter and charge system? I'd sure like to have schematics and technical explanation of how everything works. How much useful real-time information on battery state and charging system can be derived from the displays available?

 

D.

 

Everything is automatic and computer controlled and nothing can go worng go worng go worng.............