FFH External Temperature Display

[glseibert]

Imagine driving through town and you notice the temperature hasn't changed since you left the house this morning. Garage was a cool 62 degrees when you went to work which is about 2.5 miles away (lucky). After work drove to the grocery store. By this time, it was well above 90.

 

Display still said 62. Huh? Broken already???

 

To the friendly neighborhood Ford dealer to have it checked out.

 

They say: Works as designed. You have to be moving along at least 25 MPH for 90 seconds before display adjusts in the upwards direction. Then it will adjust 3 deg/min so long as your speed doesn't drop below 25. The designers were trying to ensure the engine compartment heat would not affect the display.

 

How is it possible to maintain such a speed for that duration in town? You're lucky if you can go 1/4 mile without hitting a light or stop sign.

 

Seems like a software design error maybe?

 

Wrote a letter to Ford. Got the canned response, "Bummer Dude. Deal with it."

 

No other vehicle we've ever owned with a built-in external temperature does this. Sure it reads hot until you're moving along, but that's to be expected.

 

Oh well, except for this, we're happy with the FFH so far.

[Oman]

I design software for a living. To me that's over-design. You move the sensor to a good location that minimizes distorted readings. You might make sure the car moves a minimum distance to make sure the sensor measures the air rather than the sheet metal but wow - they made it more complex than needed. What they did not consider is that the software design makes the sensor appear to be worse than what their software was trying to correct for. If they would have blanked the reading until the car met the criteria at least they would not be giving a bogus reading, instead they are showing a way-off reading to avoid showing a partially-off reading. Not an improvement.

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

Imagine driving through town and you notice the temperature hasn't changed since you left the house this morning. Garage was a cool 62 degrees when you went to work which is about 2.5 miles away (lucky). After work drove to the grocery store. By this time, it was well above 90.

 

Display still said 62. Huh? Broken already???

 

To the friendly neighborhood Ford dealer to have it checked out.

 

They say: Works as designed. You have to be moving along at least 25 MPH for 90 seconds before display adjusts in the upwards direction. Then it will adjust 3 deg/min so long as your speed doesn't drop below 25. The designers were trying to ensure the engine compartment heat would not affect the display.

 

How is it possible to maintain such a speed for that duration in town? You're lucky if you can go 1/4 mile without hitting a light or stop sign.

 

Seems like a software design error maybe?

 

Wrote a letter to Ford. Got the canned response, "Bummer Dude. Deal with it."

 

No other vehicle we've ever owned with a built-in external temperature does this. Sure it reads hot until you're moving along, but that's to be expected.

 

Oh well, except for this, we're happy with the FFH so far.

[treeofliberty]

This certainly is a stupid design, especially on a car that is littered with innovation. We live in Phoenix, and are used to seeing temperature guages reading in the 120's until getting moving. Sadly, it sometimes only falls to 118, because that really is the temperature.

 

I agree with Oman, they're fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

[glseibert]

Thanks for the emotional reinforcement.

 

Having been in the software development business for 30 years, my reaction was the same as Jon's.

 

Now, if I could only find where they stored that literal 60 in the flash... <Dream sequence>

 

I wonder if the gas versions share the same sensor management code.

[Ranger_Rick]

Yes, the external temperature reading is odd.

This has to be some sort of Ford Corporate rubber stamp.

The rubber stamp that gets my goat: you have to run

the wipers in order to get a squirt. Didn't they ever think

that my windshield was covered with ice and I wanted to

squirt some deep blue de-icer without ripping my blades

apart? In the past, they have fixed my wiper motors under

warranty, because of this behavior...

Also (drivin' a not a NAV) the little button LEDs are hard to

see. Maybe I'm gettin' old...

[smr2112]

That is dumb. Anybody who has one of these in their car knows that the readout is inaccurate

until it's accurate! Overdesign...yea, you got that right.

[filbo]

Just yesterday, the temperature display read "00" until I shut off the engine. The outside temps were in the 70s.

 

Yup, a lot of engineering went into something that is practically useless. I'd be better off with one of those suction cup thermometers stuck too my windshield.

[hevengineer]

If you are having issue with the Outside Air Temp (OAT) sensor please take vehicle in to you Ford dear for a software update that will improve the rate at which vehicle reads sensor.

[glseibert]

If you are having issue with the Outside Air Temp (OAT) sensor please take vehicle in to you Ford dear for a software update that will improve the rate at which vehicle reads sensor.

 

Hey Hevengineer,

Do you have the TSB number for this software update? Went to get the Speedo fixed (TSB 9-13-09) and the service manager pleaded ignorance. Eventually they will tire of spending their Tech's time to tell us what we already know.

SM indicated he would be in contact with Ford Engineering tomorrow. I'll update all if anything positive comes of this exercise.

[Oman]

Ok, I'm willing to subscribe to the database... there are enough TSBs floating around that I want to keep an eye one that I am willing to pay up. Does anyone have the URL? I can't seem to find it again. I'll try to keep a TSB post going with any new ones for the FFH.

 

Jon

 

 

Hey Hevengineer,

Do you have the TSB number for this software update? Went to get the Speedo fixed (TSB 9-13-09) and the service manager pleaded ignorance. Eventually they will tire of spending their Tech's time to tell us what we already know.

SM indicated he would be in contact with Ford Engineering tomorrow. I'll update all if anything positive comes of this exercise.

[glseibert]

Ok, I'm willing to subscribe to the database... there are enough TSBs floating around that I want to keep an eye one that I am willing to pay up. Does anyone have the URL? I can't seem to find it again. I'll try to keep a TSB post going with any new ones for the FFH.

 

Jon

 

Poking around motorcraft.com, I found http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/ret...id=&gutsid=

Is that what you are looking for?

[Oman]

Yep, that's what I was looking for. Does anyone know if the Technical Document Subscription includes a general TSB subscription or is the included TSB subscription only for the specific vehicle TDS? The web site is not clear. I would love to have access to the online shop manuals, but I would like to have TSBs for more than just that specific car.

 

 

 

Jon

 

 

Poking around motorcraft.com, I found http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/ret...id=&gutsid=

Is that what you are looking for?

[smr2112]

Yep, that's what I was looking for. Does anyone know if the Technical Document Subscription includes a general TSB subscription or is the included TSB subscription only for the specific vehicle TDS? The web site is not clear. I would love to have access to the online shop manuals, but I would like to have TSBs for more than just that specific car.

 

Yes, it is all Ford TSBs (all cars/years) for the term you buy. I bought it for a month and it is semi-useful.

But I only own a FFH.

[lolder]

I was just at my dealer and he spent about 10 minutes searching through the messages and bulletins for the problem/update and couldn't find anything.

Lee

[HarleyJoel]

I was thinking of this thread a couple of weeks ago when I noticed that I was running on EV power, going between 10-20mph and the temperature was dropping after I left the garage. I have not had any issues with the outside temp gauge in the last two months or so that I've had the car.

[glseibert]

Temperature decreasing is not a problem, HarleyJoel. The software doesn't place any limits on the rate at which the display decrements when it notices the reading is higher than is being measured.

The problem is when the external air temperature is on the increase. The software will not update the display unless the car has been moving at a minimum of 25 MPH for a minimum of 90 seconds.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, it is common to see temperature swings of 40 degrees over a single day. That is the condition where the problem manifests itself. Garage, and thus the car, is 60 degrees F while it's 80 outside. Driving around town, one cannot get to 25 for the magic 90 seconds. Your body is telling you it's hot. Your $30K+ brand-new car is still telling you it's 60.

 

On a related note, I've discovered if you send a letter to Ford at the address in your owners manual, you'll eventually get a nice form letter reply indicating they want you to call them and discuss the issue. When you actually call that number, you get someone asking, "What are you calling about?"

"Err.... Umm... Your letter said you wanted to talk to me about this. Just make sure someone who has some authority hears about this."

"Sure thing, sir. Thank you for calling Ford."

 

Fast-forward to a couple months later at the dealership (Speedometer stopped working TSB). Service manager sees the fact we called, but there is no indication the customer service rep actually did anything.

 

Really makes one feel like Ford doesn't give a hoot about their customers. I guess Ford is telling us they never wants us to buy another of their products. After our 95 WindStar experience, it took a lot to decide the FFH was what we should buy. Guess we should have stayed with Saturn. We'll know better next time.

 

BTW, I must give Kudos the the Service Manager at the Ford Store in Morgan Hill. He's really following up on this. If corporate cared about their customers half as much as the folks at the dealership seem to, we would probably consider another Ford product.

[akirby]

I don't get it. What, exactly, did you want corporate to do for you besides listen to your complaint? Ford doesn't repair vehicles - the dealers do (unfortunately sometimes).

[glseibert]

I don't get it. What, exactly, did you want corporate to do for you besides listen to your complaint? Ford doesn't repair vehicles - the dealers do (unfortunately sometimes).

 

I expected that Ford corporate listen to their customers and at least acknowledge the suggestion/complaint. The fact that the customer service representative assured me on the phone she would pass my issue up the management chain and then dropped it completely is what is most annoying.

 

In this particular case, the repair is a simple change to the software that controls the display update. That's not something any dealer is capable of doing on their own. Unless Ford corporate supplies the dealers with a software patch in the form of a TSB, the dealers cannot do a thing.

 

I suppose the Pinto gas tank was operating as designed. It just wasn't designed to remain intact when the vehicle was rear-ended.

[akirby]

I expected that Ford corporate listen to their customers and at least acknowledge the suggestion/complaint. The fact that the customer service representative assured me on the phone she would pass my issue up the management chain and then dropped it completely is what is most annoying.

 

In this particular case, the repair is a simple change to the software that controls the display update. That's not something any dealer is capable of doing on their own. Unless Ford corporate supplies the dealers with a software patch in the form of a TSB, the dealers cannot do a thing.

 

I suppose the Pinto gas tank was operating as designed. It just wasn't designed to remain intact when the vehicle was rear-ended.

 

That would be nice but do you honestly expect to get that type of response from any other major car mfr? I agree that customer service should do a better job but I think your expectations may be a little high in this case.

[AllenF]

Temperature decreasing is not a problem, HarleyJoel. The software doesn't place any limits on the rate at which the display decrements when it notices the reading is higher than is being measured.

The problem is when the external air temperature is on the increase. The software will not update the display unless the car has been moving at a minimum of 25 MPH for a minimum of 90 seconds.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, it is common to see temperature swings of 40 degrees over a single day. That is the condition where the problem manifests itself. Garage, and thus the car, is 60 degrees F while it's 80 outside. Driving around town, one cannot get to 25 for the magic 90 seconds. Your body is telling you it's hot. Your $30K+ brand-new car is still telling you it's 60.

 

On a related note, I've discovered if you send a letter to Ford at the address in your owners manual, you'll eventually get a nice form letter reply indicating they want you to call them and discuss the issue. When you actually call that number, you get someone asking, "What are you calling about?"

"Err.... Umm... Your letter said you wanted to talk to me about this. Just make sure someone who has some authority hears about this."

"Sure thing, sir. Thank you for calling Ford."

 

Fast-forward to a couple months later at the dealership (Speedometer stopped working TSB). Service manager sees the fact we called, but there is no indication the customer service rep actually did anything.

 

Really makes one feel like Ford doesn't give a hoot about their customers. I guess Ford is telling us they never wants us to buy another of their products. After our 95 WindStar experience, it took a lot to decide the FFH was what we should buy. Guess we should have stayed with Saturn. We'll know better next time.BTW, I must give Kudos the the Service Manager at the Ford Store in Morgan Hill. He's really following up on this. If corporate cared about their customers half as much as the folks at the dealership seem to, we would probably consider another Ford product.

This is the type of whining that make folks look at you as unbelievable.

It is after all a slow adjusting temp gauge. Your world will not end due to it being off. Could it be better? Perhaps. Will you or your family die because it is off? NO.

 

Lets try to come back down to the real world and get things in the proper perspective. I mean really, are you going to sell this FFH and get a Saturn because the temp gauge is off? Really? WOW!