Car wouldn't start, sat overnight and started fine. Help!

[manninp]

have a 2013 FFH. Just bought it a month ago. Drove it for a couple thousand km and all seemed normal, fuel economy was decent etc.. then one day recently z seemingly out of nowhere, fuel economy got quite a lot worse as a result of EV mode disengaging with nearly any gas pedal input.

 

Some research suggested this could be the result of a bad 12V battery. Fast forward to last night. After driving throughout the day, I parked the car and attempted to start it about 2 hours later. It wouldn't start, and I got a message to "Stop Safely". When trying to start the car again, it was as if the gas engine would half engage, but pedal and gear input did nothing and car wouldn't move and a short time later the gas engine would just shudder to a stall.

 

I have a phone charger that has a voltage readout on it. It was getting low, reading as low as under 8V. I attempted to boost the car, and even with the voltage reading 12.6, the car wouldn't react, eventually getting a Wrench icon. Throughout all this, the hybrid Battery icon showed empty/no charge

 

Fast forward to this morning, the car started fine, all warning messages gone and after a few mins the hybrid system appeared to be charged as expected.

 

I drove it to a local shop to have the 12V battery tested. It drove fine, other than still having the issue where EV mode won't stay with any real amount of gas pedal input. The battery tested fine, and I'm now not sure where to go from here.

 

Any help or insight, other than just suggesting I take it to the dealer, would be greatly appreciated

[Sky14FFH]

Same thing happened with mine once where all batteries were dead and it wouldn't start.  So I jump started it with an old car.  Kinda crazy really.  What I had done is using eco+ mode driven the hybrid battery all the way down the day before and also the starter battery was low.  (I didn't get a stop safely message - just everything was dead - even radio presets had been cleared)  That was about 2 years ago and it never happened again.  Scary though.  I keep a battery charger to keep both my cars topped off in the winter, especially during the pandemic when we aren't driving much.

 

6 hours ago, manninp said:

fuel economy got quite a lot worse as a result of EV mode disengaging with nearly any gas pedal input.

Was the hybrid battery fully charged when this happened? Bad fuel economy may be due to winter gas +winter temperatures + engine taking longer to warm up. My engine will continue to run if it hasn't warmed up even if it has fully charged the battery. I get about 5mpg less in the winter.

6 hours ago, manninp said:

still having the issue where EV mode won't stay with any real amount of gas pedal input.

 

Not sure what you mean by "EV mode disengaging".  Can you elaborate?

In the My View display on the left 'gauge display' get your engine temperature to show. Is the engine temperature rising above the first line?  (Also a scangauge tool can help - you can get devices off of Amazon now for $15 that plug into your OBDII port and work with your phone).  In the winter the engine won't shut off until the temperature is above 130degrees F.  Mine has an issue here it takes a LONG TIME to get above 130.  One way of getting it to rise faster is using Defrost Max mode and turning the fan blower down to 1 or two bars.  This will force the engine to run until fully warmed. 

[CRB7]

Hi, new here. Yesterday my '13 ford fusion se started coasting about half a mile up the road and the wrench popped up on the screen. After I pulled over and stopped to turn the ignition off and back on it wouldn't accelerate. All the lights turned on but it wouldn't move. I gave it a boost with my portable charger but it wouldn't stay charged for long and eventually not at all. My mechanic isn't really familiar with hybrids and I'm trying to get some kind of insight as to what may be the problem. If anyone has any ideas or can empathize with me please share your thoughts/remedies.

[MeeLee]

The wrench icon usually means ice engine problems. No acceleration probably because the battery was empty.

Standing overnight allows the cells to reset a bit, which gives you the idea the car got more charge, but it doesn't. All EVs have the same issue. When your battery juice is finished, turn off the car, let it sit for a few minutes, and try again. 

Tell your mechanic to plug a scanner or pc in the obd2 connector .

May be a faulty sensor, non working alternator, or other.

[murphy]

I guarantee the alternator isn't working because the car doesn't have an alternator.

It has a DC to DC converter.

 

It also doesn't have a 12 volt starter motor.

One of the high voltage motors starts the ICE.

 

If the 12 volt battery is too low to pull in the two contactors that connect the high voltage battery to the car, the car will be dead.

Put another 12 volt battery in parallel using the jump points under the hood and the car will come alive.

 

[2014FordFusionSE]

19 hours ago, CRB7 said:

Hi, new here. Yesterday my '13 ford fusion se started coasting about half a mile up the road and the wrench popped up on the screen. After I pulled over and stopped to turn the ignition off and back on it wouldn't accelerate. All the lights turned on but it wouldn't move. I gave it a boost with my portable charger but it wouldn't stay charged for long and eventually not at all. My mechanic isn't really familiar with hybrids and I'm trying to get some kind of insight as to what may be the problem. If anyone has any ideas or can empathize with me please share your thoughts/remedies.

 

The simplest question would be, how old is your 12v battery?

If it's more than 3 years old, have the battery tested. A new battery may fix these problems if you didn't have any issues before.

[mwr]

13 minutes ago, 2014FordFusionSE said:

 

The simplest question would be, how old is your 12v battery?

If it's more than 3 years old, have the battery tested. A new battery may fix these problems if you didn't have any issues before.

If it's the original 12v battery, it's 8 years old (+-), which makes it likely to be the problem.

[manninp]

21 hours ago, CRB7 said:

Hi, new here. Yesterday my '13 ford fusion se started coasting about half a mile up the road and the wrench popped up on the screen. After I pulled over and stopped to turn the ignition off and back on it wouldn't accelerate. All the lights turned on but it wouldn't move. I gave it a boost with my portable charger but it wouldn't stay charged for long and eventually not at all. My mechanic isn't really familiar with hybrids and I'm trying to get some kind of insight as to what may be the problem. If anyone has any ideas or can empathize with me please share your thoughts/remedies.

A new 12v battery fixed all my issues

[CRB7]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:02 AM, MeeLee said:

The wrench icon usually means ice engine problems. No acceleration probably because the battery was empty.

Standing overnight allows the cells to reset a bit, which gives you the idea the car got more charge, but it doesn't. All EVs have the same issue. When your battery juice is finished, turn off the car, let it sit for a few minutes, and try again. 

Tell your mechanic to plug a scanner or pc in the obd2 connector .

May be a faulty sensor, non working alternator, or other.

Hi meelee, 

He actually tried to get readings with his scanner but he got nothing and he said there is no alternator. He thought the same thing about the alternator at first.

[CRB7]

On 4/11/2021 at 10:36 AM, murphy said:

I guarantee the alternator isn't working because the car doesn't have an alternator.

It has a DC to DC converter.

 

It also doesn't have a 12 volt starter motor.

One of the high voltage motors starts the ICE.

 

If the 12 volt battery is too low to pull in the two contactors that connect the high voltage battery to the car, the car will be dead.

Put another 12 volt battery in parallel using the jump points under the hood and the car will come alive.

 

Hi murphy,

So you think it's a bad battery?

[CRB7]

20 hours ago, mwr said:

If it's the original 12v battery, it's 8 years old (+-), which makes it likely to be the problem.

Hi mwr,

Not sure how old the battery is, I bought it from a dealership a couple of years ago.

[CRB7]

7 minutes ago, CRB7 said:

Hi murphy,

So you think it's a bad battery? He tried charging it but whenever he took it off it died. Would the battery pack be able to charge from the trunk battery if it's sitting idle on a charging station, while running? or would the battery pack have to be charged on it's own?

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by CRB7

[CRB7]

21 hours ago, 2014FordFusionSE said:

 

The simplest question would be, how old is your 12v battery?

If it's more than 3 years old, have the battery tested. A new battery may fix these problems if you didn't have any issues before.

Would I be able to get it tested at AutoZone?

[manninp]

24 minutes ago, CRB7 said:

Would I be able to get it tested at AutoZone?

Probably, but be careful as there are 2 different ways to test a battery. The quick way takes a couple mins and the long way takes a couple hours. Mine tested fine the quick way but all problems were solved upon replacing it

[CRB7]

6 minutes ago, manninp said:

Probably, but be careful as there are 2 different ways to test a battery. The quick way takes a couple mins and the long way takes a couple hours. Mine tested fine the quick way but all problems were solved upon replacing it

My mechanic placed it on his charging dock for about 30 minutes but the main battery won't hold a charge.

[murphy]

20 minutes ago, CRB7 said:

My mechanic placed it on his charging dock for about 30 minutes but the main battery won't hold a charge.

If by main battery you mean the high voltage battery,that can't be charged externally except possibly by a dealer.  It is charged by an electric motor operating as a generator which means the engine must be running.

 

The 12 volt battery can be tested by most places that sell batteries.  I bought a tool on Amazon so I could do it myself.  It puts a 100 ampere load on the battery for 10 seconds.  If the battery voltage drops below 10.5 volts during that test the battery has reached the end of its useful life.

If the battery has ever been discharged to a very low voltage it has probably been permanently damaged.

 

A wet cell lead acid battery is the wrong battery for this application.  It should be an AGM battery but they cost more so Ford picked the less expensive battery.

 

I have a 2013 Energi and about 6 months after I bought the car I replaced the wet cell battery with an AGM battery.

 

 

[CRB7]

20 minutes ago, murphy said:

If by main battery you mean the high voltage battery,that can't be charged externally except possibly by a dealer.  It is charged by an electric motor operating as a generator which means the engine must be running.

 

The 12 volt battery can be tested by most places that sell batteries.  I bought a tool on Amazon so I could do it myself.  It puts a 100 ampere load on the battery for 10 seconds.  If the battery voltage drops below 10.5 volts during that test the battery has reached the end of its useful life.

If the battery has ever been discharged to a very low voltage it has probably been permanently damaged.

 

A wet cell lead acid battery is the wrong battery for this application.  It should be an AGM battery but they cost more so Ford picked the less expensive battery.

 

I have a 2013 Energi and about 6 months after I bought the car I replaced the wet cell battery with an AGM battery.

 

 

He said he had it running so that the hv battery could charge through the braking system and it was still depleted. I'm not very technical about these kinds of cars but I have been researching and the major parts are VERY expensive. If I change the battery out like you did, do you think it would help with cold starting also? It died everyday when it was cold here, and about how much more is the agm battery?

19 minutes ago, murphy said:

If by main battery you mean the high voltage battery,that can't be charged externally except possibly by a dealer.  It is charged by an electric motor operating as a generator which means the engine must be running.

 

The 12 volt battery can be tested by most places that sell batteries.  I bought a tool on Amazon so I could do it myself.  It puts a 100 ampere load on the battery for 10 seconds.  If the battery voltage drops below 10.5 volts during that test the battery has reached the end of its useful life.

If the battery has ever been discharged to a very low voltage it has probably been permanently damaged.

 

A wet cell lead acid battery is the wrong battery for this application.  It should be an AGM battery but they cost more so Ford picked the less expensive battery.

 

I have a 2013 Energi and about 6 months after I bought the car I replaced the wet cell battery with an AGM battery.

 

 

[2014FordFusionSE]

3 hours ago, CRB7 said:

Would I be able to get it tested at AutoZone?

 

Yes, for sure.

Most batteries have a date on the top. The ones I've seen, it's a little round sticker with the month/year of manufacture eg. 03/20

 

Take it to AutoZone and they should be able to help you.

From what I've read, it seems that your FFH's 12v battery needs to be replaced.

[CRB7]

22 minutes ago, 2014FordFusionSE said:

 

Yes, for sure.

Most batteries have a date on the top. The ones I've seen, it's a little round sticker with the month/year of manufacture eg. 03/20

 

Take it to AutoZone and they should be able to help you.

From what I've read, it seems that your FFH's 12v battery needs to be replaced.

That's what a service rep at 1 of the dealerships told me too. Thanks so much for all the help?

[murphy]

The normal charge level for the HVB in a hybrid is 50%.  There has to be room for the energy recovered by regenerative braking to be stored.

 

Turn the car on in Park and floor the accelerator pedal and the engine will start and charge the HVB.

You can't hurt the engine.  The computer is controlling the gasoline flow and won't permit the engine to be damaged.

 

I agree that it is time for a new 12 volt battery.

 

[CRB7]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:15 PM, 2014FordFusionSE said:

 

Yes, for sure.

Most batteries have a date on the top. The ones I've seen, it's a little round sticker with the month/year of manufacture eg. 03/20

 

Take it to AutoZone and they should be able to help you.

From what I've read, it seems that your FFH's 12v battery needs to be replaced.

I bought the battery and I hear a sound when I take it out of park then the engine cuts off. Everything else stays on but it won't move. The wrench is still there also.

Edited April 13, 2021 by CRB7

[CRB7]

On 4/12/2021 at 3:41 PM, murphy said:

The normal charge level for the HVB in a hybrid is 50%.  There has to be room for the energy recovered by regenerative braking to be stored.

 

Turn the car on in Park and floor the accelerator pedal and the engine will start and charge the HVB.

You can't hurt the engine.  The computer is controlling the gasoline flow and won't permit the engine to be damaged.

 

I agree that it is time for a new 12 volt battery.

 

The battery didn't work, it makes a sound then the engine cuts off when I take it out of park. The mechanic says it sounds like the torque something is locking up. The wrench is still there also.

Edited April 13, 2021 by CRB7

[manninp]

2 hours ago, CRB7 said:

The battery didn't work, it makes a sound then the engine cuts off when I take it out of park. The mechanic says it sounds like the torque something is locking up. The wrench is still there also.

It's time for a trip to the dealer

[CRB7]

1 minute ago, manninp said:

It's time for a trip to the dealer

Going Monday?

[lolder]

There's no torque converter "locking up". You need a Ford dealer. 2013+ FFH's had trouble with the eCVT transmissions caused mostly be a bad bearing. They started making a grinding noise long before they failed, in fact I haven't heard of any failing. Some also had oil leaks. See if there are any extended warranties past the 8/100k hybrid warranty. The transmission is covered by that.

Edited April 14, 2021 by lolder