Difference in mileage between exact same models of 2013 FFH?

[sjack367]

Hi all,

This is my first post to this community, so I hope I'm in the right place! I just wanted to ask a question that has been on my mind for a few months now. My sibling and I both own 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE's (the exact same models -- his has ~6,000 less miles than mine does, 43k vs 49k) but I have noticed a significant difference in the fuel economy/mileage between these two vehicles. Mine has about 49k miles and has averaged 43.5MPG over its lifetime, with recent nice weather (I'm in Minnesota) I can see 50+MPG on my commutes in a metro area. Occasionally I will drive my sibling's Hybrid but notice a stark contrast in the difference in mileage. From the start you can tell that his is a lot more willing to quickly turn to using the engine than mine is - driving the first block leaving our house, mine will always use battery but his always gasoline. We buy the exact same gas from the same station, but I notice a ~10MPG difference on trips to and from the exact same location with his vehicle. Keep in mind, I've noticed this as the driver of both cars, so I have the exact same tendencies in each test. If anything, in his Hybrid, I tend to drive even slower and coast as much as possible to get a better fuel economy.

Nonetheless, despite removing every single variable in a drive except for the vehicle, I notice his consistently does worse on the road. No AC, windows up, etc.. Are there any reasons you here at FFHF can think of off the bat that would be a viable reason for this? I'm happy to answer any questions but I just can't figure it out for the life of me.

Thanks!

[murphy]

Do both cars have ECO Mode set to the same setting?

Do both cars have EV+ set to the same setting?

Are the batteries at the same level when you start the drive. If the battery is below 50% the engine is going to start.

If EV+ is enabled the battery will usually be lower when you leave. EV+ has meaning for the Energi but IMHO makes no sense for the Hybrid.

[Waldo]

Are you both running the updated engine calibration software?

[Timewellspent]

Tires and pressure the same on both?

[sjack367]

Do both cars have ECO Mode set to the same setting?

Do both cars have EV+ set to the same setting?

Are the batteries at the same level when you start the drive. If the battery is below 50% the engine is going to start.

If EV+ is enabled the battery will usually be lower when you leave. EV+ has meaning for the Energi but IMHO makes no sense for the Hybrid.

 

Thanks for the response murphy, could I get a little clarification on what you mean about ECO and EV+ being set to the same settings? Can you choose a threshold of when ECO and EV+ kick in? I was looking around in the settings but wasn't able to find anything. I've driven each car weekly over the last six months, so there have been many different levels of battery when I start the drive. This is just something I've noticed (the engine kicking in a lot easier on my sibling's) as I drive ~15 miles to and from work each day.

[sjack367]

Are you both running the updated engine calibration software?

 

Hi there Waldo,

 

Thanks for the response. How updated is the newest engine calibration software? Since purchasing the vehicle in the second half of 2016 neither my sibling or I have installed any updates. Thank you!

[murphy]

 

Thanks for the response murphy, could I get a little clarification on what you mean about ECO and EV+ being set to the same settings? Can you choose a threshold of when ECO and EV+ kick in? I was looking around in the settings but wasn't able to find anything. I've driven each car weekly over the last six months, so there have been many different levels of battery when I start the drive. This is just something I've noticed (the engine kicking in a lot easier on my sibling's) as I drive ~15 miles to and from work each day.

ECO and EV+ are on/off settings.

 

With ECO on ACC throttle response is slow and smooth. With it off throttle response is quick which can waste gasoline.

 

With EV+ enabled when you get within 0.5 miles of home (determined by the GPS) the car will give preference to battery operation. The result is you arrive with the battery lower, even below 50%. For the Energi this makes sense because the battery will be recharged from the wall when the car is parked. For a hybrid I don't see any benefit.

[Waldo]

 

Hi there Waldo,

 

Thanks for the response. How updated is the newest engine calibration software? Since purchasing the vehicle in the second half of 2016 neither my sibling or I have installed any updates. Thank you!

 

There was a major update that came out sometime in 2014 I think, if one car got the update and the other didn't, that could be part of the reason.

[ptjones]

First thing I would think of is tires and pressure too. Software would be next. ;(

 

Paul

[Griswald]

Don't Ford cars have "adaptive" learning in their ECU's? I know my Sport Trac did.

If that is on the Fusion, that could easily account for any changes in driver-to-driver or car-to-car differences.

[lolder]

ECO and EV+ are on/off settings.

 

With ECO on ACC throttle response is slow and smooth. With it off throttle response is quick which can waste gasoline.

 

With EV+ enabled when you get within 0.5 miles of home (determined by the GPS) the car will give preference to battery operation. The result is you arrive with the battery lower, even below 50%. For the Energi this makes sense because the battery will be recharged from the wall when the car is parked. For a hybrid I don't see any benefit.

It's an advantage for a hybrid also as they run the ICE for up to a minute when they start up to check evaporative emission controls and warm up the O2 sensors so the generator can bring the HVB up to normal then.

[Griswald]

Mine doesn't start the ICE until the battery is low. I can make it out of my housing plan without the ICE ever running, when I pull out onto the main road, the ICE starts and runs just fine.

[lolder]

The 2010-12s always run the ICE once the car is put into any gear when first started. The 2013+s are completely different cars and may operate differently.

[ptjones]

With a good State of Charge(SOC) I have been able to go at least 1 mile in EV when I first start if I keep the speed below 35mph in my 2013 CMAX, 2013 and newer FFH will do the same. If HVB is fully charged you should be able to go over 2 miles. :)

 

Paul

[sjack367]

ECO and EV+ are on/off settings.

 

With ECO on ACC throttle response is slow and smooth. With it off throttle response is quick which can waste gasoline.

 

With EV+ enabled when you get within 0.5 miles of home (determined by the GPS) the car will give preference to battery operation. The result is you arrive with the battery lower, even below 50%. For the Energi this makes sense because the battery will be recharged from the wall when the car is parked. For a hybrid I don't see any benefit.

 

Hey murphy,

 

sorry for such a late response. I'd like to clarify again if possible - ECO is the setting for driving with cruise control, is that correct? If I hit the "on" button on my wheel the ECO button comes up but it's gray, it's not until I set a cruise speed that it turns green. This is the same in both vehicles.

 

Tires are similar for the vehicles, in recent trips I've noticed that my 2013FFH can get up to 60MPG on a 15 or so mile trip, but my sibling's only gets about 40 on a similar trip.

 

The best way I'd be able to describe this problem is that his hybrid will switch to the engine a lot more often than mine. On the display panel, his EV bar fluctuates a lot faster than mine does, meaning that if he were to press the gas pedal while on EV, it will hit the top of the EV bar and revert to using the engine a LOT easier than mine currently does. Both vehicles have EV+ enabled, and if there was a situation where each had an entirely full battery at the beginning of an EV+ sequence, his battery would be used up more than mine at the end of the .5 miles (it may even transition to using the engine, it's that low). Do you happen to know where I would go to get the software updated?

 

Thank you all for your responses in trying to figure this out!

[murphy]

Yes ECO is a cruise control setting. The acceleration under cruise control is slower with it enabled.

 

Is the comparison with you driving both vehicles? Do the numbers stay the same for each car no matter who drives the car?

 

Do you have 12 volt battery problems on the 40 mpg car? If the 12 volt battery goes dead the engine programming is lost and has to be relearned.

 

Any Ford dealer can update the software but if its not for an error code presented by the car they will probably want to charge you to do it.

 

Have you checked the ford owner account for each car to see if there are any outstanding recalls?

 

Check the engine air filter. A dirty air filter can cause problems.

 

If you have the tools and expertise you could pull the spark plugs on both cars and compare their condition.

[sjack367]

Yes ECO is a cruise control setting. The acceleration under cruise control is slower with it enabled.

 

Is the comparison with you driving both vehicles? Do the numbers stay the same for each car no matter who drives the car?

 

Do you have 12 volt battery problems on the 40 mpg car? If the 12 volt battery goes dead the engine programming is lost and has to be relearned.

 

Any Ford dealer can update the software but if its not for an error code presented by the car they will probably want to charge you to do it.

 

Have you checked the ford owner account for each car to see if there are any outstanding recalls?

 

Check the engine air filter. A dirty air filter can cause problems.

 

If you have the tools and expertise you could pull the spark plugs on both cars and compare their condition.

 

Thank you again for your responses. Yes, the comparison is with me driving each time, just to have some consistency in driving style (these "tests" are also conducted on the same stretches of road). If my brother drives his car, and then mine, he will also have a similar MPG differential between the vehicles. I actually just received a recall in the mail today but it was for a malfunctioning seatbelt, I'll do a search to see if anything else is up. I will also check the air filter and spark plugs to see if those could be contributing. Thank you for all of your suggestions!

[Waldo]

If you search on the forums from threads back in 2013, you'll find a few instances of people who had early 2013 FFHs that just didn't seem to work right. Anyone remember acdii?? He had an early 2013 that he could never get to work right, then got a 2014 and found it was much better. I don't know that anybody ever figured out what was wrong with those few early ones.

[lolder]

The 2013s also had transmission failures, transmission oil leaks, air conditioning mold and drive axle noises.

[ptjones]

 

Hey murphy,

 

sorry for such a late response. I'd like to clarify again if possible - ECO is the setting for driving with cruise control, is that correct? If I hit the "on" button on my wheel the ECO button comes up but it's gray, it's not until I set a cruise speed that it turns green. This is the same in both vehicles.

 

Tires are similar for the vehicles, in recent trips I've noticed that my 2013FFH can get up to 60MPG on a 15 or so mile trip, but my sibling's only gets about 40 on a similar trip.

 

The best way I'd be able to describe this problem is that his hybrid will switch to the engine a lot more often than mine. On the display panel, his EV bar fluctuates a lot faster than mine does, meaning that if he were to press the gas pedal while on EV, it will hit the top of the EV bar and revert to using the engine a LOT easier than mine currently does. Both vehicles have EV+ enabled, and if there was a situation where each had an entirely full battery at the beginning of an EV+ sequence, his battery would be used up more than mine at the end of the .5 miles (it may even transition to using the engine, it's that low). Do you happen to know where I would go to get the software updated?

 

Thank you all for your responses in trying to figure this out!

You say the tires are similar, I'm not sure what that means. If they aren't the same then that is a difference and you wouldn't expect the same MPG. To me it sounds like you have a problem with the HVB with diminished capacity. With 157K mi. on mine there is a real noticeable difference on how quickly the HVB charges up going down steep hills. If you have a steep long down hill to drive on compare the difference in charging time. That been said I can still go a mile easily in EV with charged up HVB. Also I wonder if the Inverter could be a problem, have you checked for any codes? You could try Injector Cleaner, I like NOS Octane Booster at WalMart for $9.96, it really works plus you will gain 2-3 mpg on a full tank. :)

 

 

Paul

[Cobra348]

You say the tires are similar, I'm not sure what that means. If they aren't the same then that is a difference and you wouldn't expect the same MPG. To me it sounds like you have a problem with the HVB with diminished capacity. With 157K mi. on mine there is a real noticeable difference on how quickly the HVB charges up going down steep hills. If you have a steep long down hill to drive on compare the difference in charging time. That been said I can still go a mile easily in EV with charged up HVB. Also I wonder if the Inverter could be a problem, have you checked for any codes? You could try Injector Cleaner, I like NOS Octane Booster at WalMart for $9.96, it really works plus you will gain 2-3 mpg on a full tank. :)

 

 

Paul

He may mean same. I have had Michelin 17" on both the FFHs I've had ('15 HyTi and current). Does Ford use other tires in that size? Also I'm nearly positive that the 18" and 17" OEM tires are NOT the same brand and that only the fact they are LRR makes them similar.

 

That last statement is based on the 15" and 16" Fiesta rims - Kumho on 15" and Hankook on 16". <shrug>

Edited July 6, 2017 by Cobra348

[ptjones]

He may mean same. I have had Michelin 17" on both the FFHs I've had ('15 HyTi and current). Does Ford use other tires in that size? Also I'm nearly positive that the 18" and 17" OEM tires are NOT the same brand and that only the fact they are LRR makes them similar.

 

That last statement is based on the 15" and 16" Fiesta rims - Kumho on 15" and Hankook on 16". <shrug>

I don't know what the options are for the FFH and with 40k+ miles they could have replaced the tires. It would be nice if he gave us the exact tire Brand and Model.

 

Paul