gemdc

I just had the 3.5.1 update applied by the dealer for my 2013 Fusion Hybrid with Nav. The paper I got back states "Reprogram PCM ABS APIM Module with NAV per recall". Is it possible that this update could have altered the ICE engine control mapping? I seem to hear a louder intake sound when applying heavy throttle to enter freeway traffic. Anyone have any thoughts this update could improve fuel mileage or power? Anything other than the MFT system?

The second dealer didn't really want to step into this problem. He did take my written description and said he would check Ford's database of symptoms and see if he could find other similar noises. He told of another noise one of his fleet purchasers had complained about in several of his 2013 hybrids. They had a meeting and drive test with a Ford regional person and the Ford rep concluded the noise was within acceptable limits and not a warranty item. I am sure that if I pursued my noise that I would get the same conclusion. I am now planning on holding out and trade for a 2014. Mine is not one of the super fuel mileage vehicles either. Don't think I will ever have a 40 mpg tank on an Interstate trip. My last trip tank was 34.8 mpg when I had a 30 mph windy day. I expect about 38 at 68 mph with no wind.

That is a great video. I saw earlier in parts diagrams that Ford has a clutch plate in their eCVT between the ICE and the planet carrier. This video confirms that Toyota has the same thing. It still appears that this clutch is passive (never released or locked) and just serves as a shock eliminator when the ICE starts and stops. At least the instructor never mentions the clutch playing a part in the power train. Anyone have another theory of the function of the clutch? The noise I have in my transmission "could" have a relationship to the clutch as it only happens when the ICE starts pulling or slacks off the load. I am learning to ignore the sound as it does not seem to be getting any louder. Yes, it would be great if we had a video of the Ford setup.

I just can't relate my noise to those discussed in the "cracking/popping" thread. Mine absolutely will not make a noise in EV mode. Only when the ICE starts up and starts to pull, when the ICE is already running and you apply or back off the throttle. 5 mph is the best speed to listen to mine as I push and let off the throttle (I get the ICE to run more consistently in LOW range with the engine cold and the heat turned up). Much louder when the engine is cold. Still does it when warm but at half the volume. Sounds like gear rattle or a slapping chain. No chain in this CVT transmission so far as I can determine. I am learning to ignore it as neither of the 2 dealers thought the sound was a problem. Not getting any louder. Actually at 4800 miles it sounds the same as it did at 100 miles. Not happy about the sound but not worth fretting over. I will just trade it for a 2014 MKZ or another Fusion. May not be another hybrid if these problems keep persisting.

The 2010-2012 Fusion Hybrid parts list image shows a clutch plate between ICE and Aisin transmission as well.

Decided to give up the hunt for this rattle. When the car is warmed up even I have to work hard to hear it. Still think there is a defect somewhere but it isn't worth the hassle to find it. Doesn't seem to be getting worse with time and miles so may as well enjoy all the neat computerized bells and whistles. Really do like the adaptive cruise in eco mode. Wish I had waited a few weeks to get one that gets the good fuel mileage. Just added another tank at 38.5 mpg. Build date 10/30/12.

Does anyone have a good theory (facts would even be acceptable) as to how the rather conventional looking clutch plate works in our Fusion hybrids? I am guessing it is just a passive plate between the ICE and the transaxle that slips a bit when the ICE starts up. Don't think the Prius has one. I found it on FordParts.com. In my theory, it doesn't ever release the planet gear carrier from turning with the ICE and stopping when the ICE stops. At any rate these trannys are very clever.

Either these 2013 FFHs have a LOT of parasitic amperage draw or the 12v batteries are really weak. A fully charged 12v battery should settle down to about 12.6 volts with nothing connected. My 2008 Honda Odyssey van will be at about 12.4 volts 24 hrs after driving. My Fusion Hybrid is at 12.2v overnight and 11.9 one day later. Still starts OK but it apparently doesn't take many volts to trip the relay to kick in the HV battery. My Ultra-Gauge jumps to 14.2 volts when you turn the switch to RUN as the HV battery picks up the workload as soon as that relay clicks. I get a lot of the "battery saver" warnings after a few days of short trips. I can believe these low voltages are going to cause problems at some point. Yes, 390 Cold Cranking Amps is pretty weak even at best.

I think it is time I go to another dealership for a second opinion. It is obvious my guys aren't interested in working on a vehicle that moves under its own power. Will probably be tough to get anyone else that would want to "get involved" so to speak. Considering the $6400 retail price of the transmission unit it is easy to see why they want to wait until I give up. At least I can drive my Honda Odyssey to another dealer and say I'm looking for something a bit more fuel efficient and try to drive another Hybrid. I know they don't make my sound already so wouldn't help me to prove it. Like acdii, just trade it. My dealer is "EV certified".

Yes, it is really loud inside the garage. Sounds like a pump as it seems to get a bit higher in pitch toward the end of the 5 seconds it runs like the pressure cuts it off. I like the brake idea.

Looking at the various Power Split Device simulations on the Web with regards to the Toyota Prius, it doesn't really appear that it is necessary to disconnect the ICE from anything. It is amazing how the planetary gear setup is able to allow the sun, planets, and ring gear spin at varying speeds. So far as I can determine, the 2010-12 Fusion Hybrid Aisin transmission is almost a duplicate of the Prius transmission. With the exception of the clutch plate of course. The 2013 HF35 evidently connects the main Traction Electric motor via an additional shaft and gear set. Although these transmissions look simple on paper there is a lot of metal there. I read a post on another forum where a guy replaced a burned out Prius transmission with one from a salvaged Prius for about $500. Then he broke out all the copper, aluminum, and steel in his old transmission and sold it as scrap. Got $53 for the metal. Also, the total weight for the metals combined to over 200 lbs. No small chunk if you dropped it on your finger. Those electric motors have a bunch of copper. I am guessing the Ford clutch plate is how they transition between a stopped ICE and the spinning gears so smoothly. People usually say Ford starts and stops the ICE more smoothly than Toyota. I haven't driven another hybrid except my 2010 and now the 2013. That plate may be passive with no actuating mechanism but just allows some slippage when the ICE starts and stops. Could a defective clutch be the source of my rattle when my ICE starts pulling or slacks off pulling? I only hear it below 30 mph so I try to drive over 30 (I wish, then it wouldn't be a problem). I am still waiting for my dealer to get a "comparison" vehicle in inventory.

Doubt there are any plans at UltraGauge to let you show things like transmission temperature. They show a list of 78 readings they can display on their Website. The gauge is a bit of trouble to mount because they put the control buttons on the back so whatever method you use has to allow access to the buttons. I am working on a magnetic mount now. You need to be able to get it away fron the windshield so crooks wont mistake it for a GPS and break in to steal it. The magnet should allow pulling it and hiding it in the console.

Don't know about Prius but Fusion Hybrids do have a clutch. Take a look at fordparts.com fusion transmission assemblies and scroll down to the eCvt image. Both the 2013 and the 2010-2012 show a clutch plate between the ICE and the transaxle. Does anyone know what activates that clutch or what purpose it serves? I was surprised yesterday when I saw a CLUTCH in our hybrids.

Looking at acdii's scangauge got me started looking for something more accurate than the mpg readings my 2013 Fusion displays. I kept thinking on the last two tanks that I was going to break 40 mpg. Tank mileage read 41.5 on the last tank and actual computed to 39.8. Decided to try the Ultra-gauge as it is about half the price of the Scangauge II. You have to buy them directly from their web site but they did deliver quickly. Anyway, when it scanned the computer it found 62 parameters that can be displayed on the UG screens (there are 7 screens programmable). Seems to have all the stuff one might want to see and looks pretty good. Right now I just have it mounted on an office paper clip (one of those black thingys with two flip out "handles". Removed one handle, drilled a hole for a tiny bolt and nut and mounted their bracket on that. Then just clip it onto the AC vent left of the driver. Not the final method but works for now. Now have to do some calibration. Really need to wait to another fill up then follow their manual. However for now I have been guessing and changing the mpg calibration factor to get it in the ballpark of accurate. Nice to see instant mpg in digital at least.

The month of March is almost up and no call from my dealer saying they have a "comparison vehicle" to help them decide whether my rattle is normal or not. Don't really expect that to happen either. Hey, if it's rolling under it's own power, it ain't broke. I will probably just have to trade for a 2014 vehicle to get rid of this noise. At another dealer of course. Looking to see whether Ford sells parts (fordparts.com)) for these hybrid "transmissions" I found that only the entire unit is listed. The 2013 transaxle is listed at about $6400 without the electronics box that sits on top. Then I looked up a 2010 with the Aisin transmission (which has the electronics as part of the unit) and found it at over $8000. So, if a gear or bearing fails in one of these after warranty, we are in big money territory. Also see why Ford isn't going to want to replace one just for a noise. Also, noticed in their parts image that there is a pretty conventional clutch plate between the ICE and the tranny. Looks to have those little springs that take the shock out of clutch engagement pretty much like a 1950 Ford. Wonder what engages the ICE clutch? Maybe torque or engine speed? It doesn't look electrical. My noise could be related to engagement / release of that clutch plate. Sounds off when the ICE tries to move the vehicle and when the ICE drops back to let the car coast. The clutch plate is only $138 but would be a chore to change out. I have done worse jobs. Like putting in a new clutch and pressure plate in a 1988 Nissan Sentra. Well, maybe not less work but would at least be a lot cleaner work. Anyway, just curious if anyone knows details about the HF35 transmission as yet. Bet there are veeerrry few Ford service departments that have opened one of these and also very few that have even replaced one.

acdii - I think maybe the EV mode is helping on occasion even though it never goes into pure EV mode. I noticed the discharge arrow appeared below the battery icon the other day when I ran cruise at 68. Just enough to cast a doubt that the ICE is really getting 40 mpg on it's own. My run was not level so would probably charge some downhill and discharge on the uphill side. Never took the battery below about 3/4 though.

Does anyone know where the "overflow" plug is for the transmission on the 2013 Fusion Hybrid? I know it doesn't have a dipstick. Would assume it is like the Prius, take out the high level plug and put in a hose and pump until it overflows. Assuming all these simple things have been checked is like saying car salesmen (and service people) are completely trustworthy. Like they can't tell whether my hybrid has a noise in the trans until they compare it to another just like it. C-Max Hybrid won't do even though it has same engine/trans. Even though the dealer said they checked the fluid level, I always like to verify something as simple as this. I have looked at all the likely locations and can't identify the overflow plug. Drain plug is easy to see. You do have to pull the 11 torx bolts and remove the cover from the bottom area of the engine / transmission so finding someone who knows this answer isn't likely, thought I would try as I know some of you are tinkerers. Easy to find this info on a Prius but nowhere on the 2013 Fusion Hybrid.

10/30/12 delivered 11/15/12

jeff_h - looked at your pics. You definitely got a good one.

Just coincidence but I did 2 test runs yesterday. I have a 15 mile stretch of I-40 east of OKC where there are a number of ups and downs. I reset Trip 1 when I hit the entrance ramp and set the eco-cruise on 62 so that it would cycle the EV mode on all the downhills. It did a number of EV mode stretches and maintained about 50% on the battery charge pretty consistently. As I hit the exit coming back Trip 1 read 30 miles at 41.7 mpg. Then I did a U and reset Trip 1 and set the cruise on 68 both directions. This time the battery charge went above 80% almost all the time and instant mpg went above 40 most of the time. As I hit the same exit coming back Trip 1 read 30 miles at 40.7 mpg. I think this confirms acdii's case (and others) that you don't see any advantage using EV at cruising speed. Too much mechanical / electrical losses in the charge / discharge cycles. I think my 1 mpg loss at 68 versus 62 is easily accounted for by the difference in wind drag at the extra 6 mph. I know the actual mpg will be about 1.5 mpg lower than my trip computer but still decent mpg for my 10/30/12 vehicle. I think it is getting better at 2800 miles than ever before. May even make an actual 40 mpg tank this time around. I had the temp gauge up on Myview and it hit right in the middle of the marks within the first 4 miles on the first leg and stayed there. Outside temp was 60 degrees at the time of these drives.

Imp180psu - Gee, I was really hoping no one else has heard this. I don't guess I hear it so much starting from a stop if the ICE is already running but much more when I gas it lightly from a coast to pulling or back off while it's pulling. Never in EV mode but always if ICE is running and I apply power. Always noticeable below 30 mph with light throttle. Don't hear it at 65 mph even with throttle on or off. acdii - How do you know whether your dealer is Hybrid certified or not? I did see a list of dealers that are qualified to sell the Energi models and it appears my dealer is on that list. Is there any easy way to find how many 2013 Fusion and C-Max hybrids have been sold?

Guess I am the only person with a transmission rattle. Took it in on 25 Feb for evaluation. Service department says all fluids OK and no codes. They say they need to do a "like vehicle comparison" and they won't have another Fusion Hybrid for a month. Said they can't compare it to a C-Max hybrid even though both use same engine/transmission. Anyone other than Ford service people can listen and say the noise is way not normal. Does anyone know whether there is a chain in the HF35 "transmission" like I saw in a Prius picture? This sounds like a loose cam chain in a motorcycle. Rattles when loading and unloading. I am now trying to get Ford attention through their "social media" service efforts. I can guess there are very few people that can listen to this transmission and diagnose a noise. Not like regular automatics that lots of transmission guys can find a problem easily. I have watched them disassemble an automatic transmission and just throw the parts in a cleaning basket with no worry about putting it back together in order. Bet few can do that with this hybrid and it has way fewer parts than a regular automatic.

I think the build date is important. Should be included on all Fuelly as comment. My build date is 10/30/12. No 40 mpg tanks yet and I drive very carefully.

With switch off, hold the left side steering wheel OK button then turn key to "Run" then release. Should see a different screen where normal "Empower" ,etc displays. Then you can arrow up or down to get to different diagnostic displays some of which would take some research to decode. One of these you will hit is a temperature screen which will show current engine temp in Celsius. Convert that to Fahrenheit. I have been doing same as you, leaving the heat / air OFF as much as possible. At least wait until the ICE has warmed up before calling for heat. Otherwise, we burn a lot of gasoline just rushing to get the heater warm. This engine seems to really burn a lot of gas when at idle if it is either warming up or doing a heavy charge on the batteries. Just watch the "instant mpg" display while coasting along at 20 mph with the engine in charge or warmup mode. I see less than 20 mpg for sure under those conditions. If you grab all the EV you can and the motor comes on because of the low EV battery, you will see very low instant mpg until the battery gauge gets back up to half charge. In cold weather, it seems that the heater core is almost enough to cool the motor and that will cycle the ICE a lot.

As acdii mentioned somewhere, when you hold the left side OK button down then turn the switch to Run mode, the display jumps into a "technician" mode. Displays a bunch of stuff as you scroll down or up with the arrows. One thing is the engine temperature (coolant) in centigrade. Mine was 87 degrees after a stop when I tried it (188 F). I would be very careful with this feature as it appears you may be able to change settings that would not wish to be changed. This mode goes off when you turn the switch off and then restart. If anyone knows how to translate all these undocumented settings maybe it would be harmless but I won't be trying any changes.