TSB 13-7-11 Battery Saver Message

[mrobinso8]

I got kind and returned the rental to the dealer and taking wife's car to Florida for Christmas. No need wasting their money when I do not need it. Want them to be positive my car is fixed without pressure on them to get to me and at this time do not trust my car for travel. Talked to Service Manager and he left key in ignition for 1.5 hours and tech found 12 volt battery discharged greatly. Tested battery and it tested bad and was replaced. Third 12 volt so far. Still tech, not Service Manager, blaming thumb drive for car dying. Again, why two ports if none can be used? Will see what happens when we return.

[murphy]

The power to the USB ports appears to shut down less than 1 minute after the car is turned off. My thumb drive stops blinking. I'll rig up a test jig tomorrow to verify that power is lost. My thumb drive is in the USB port all of the time. Also the A4 card is in my SD slot 100% of the time.

 

IMHO they are grasping at straws because they will not admit that the 390 CCA 12 volt battery is TOO SMALL for the load that the car presents when it is turned off. The alarm system is controlled by the computer and that has to run all of the time so the computer is running all of the time.

[erichFla]

 

erichFla,

 

Hi! I haven't personally worked on Facebook, but two of my co-workers (Eric and Meagan) are there. If you've already spoken with them, it is easiest if you keep in touch with them. If not, feel free to send me the info I requested earlier, and I'll see how I can help.

 

 

 

mrobinso8,

I'm strictly on social media, so you must have been chatting with another Ashley via the phone. Silly common name! :gaah: LOL!

I'm happy to take a look at your case and have your CSM follow up with you, if you'd like. Just PM me your case number or VIN, and I'll take a peek.

 

Ashley

 

Ashley you were right, it was Meagan, we just looked at the Friends we have on facebook it was her.

[mrobinso8]

Murphy - I have been fighting with the dealer, Ford District Rep, and the Field Service Engineer on the thumb drive issue. Yesterday after asking why they put in ports that could not be used I was first told my thumb drive was defective. Told been through this using several different and a month with no thumb drive. Now the supper stupid part from the dealers "Hybrid Expert". The light on the drive is draining the battery. At least service manager thinks that is unreasonable. I should do as you did as far as a bigger battery but think this should be fixed by Ford and not me since I think there is more than a small battery problem. Previously I showed service manager the drive shutting down when the info system screen went to sleep. Even had drive out where visible on a usb extension cable so tech could see without opening console!

[murphy]

Murphy - I have been fighting with the dealer, Ford District Rep, and the Field Service Engineer on the thumb drive issue. Yesterday after asking why they put in ports that could not be used I was first told my thumb drive was defective. Told been through this using several different and a month with no thumb drive. Now the supper stupid part from the dealers "Hybrid Expert". The light on the drive is draining the battery. At least service manager thinks that is unreasonable. I should do as you did as far as a bigger battery but think this should be fixed by Ford and not me since I think there is more than a small battery problem. Previously I showed service manager the drive shutting down when the info system screen went to sleep. Even had drive out where visible on a usb extension cable so tech could see without opening console!

I have verified that the USB ports lose power less than a minute after the car is shut off and locked. If the battery is in good condition the three power ports turn off 70 minutes after the driver's door is opened. If the battery is low the power ports turn off immediately when the driver's door is opened.

 

As far as an LED draining the battery goes, I have wireless smoke detectors on my alarm system. They have an LED that blinks every 10 seconds. They have a single CR123A lithium battery. As of January 25, 2014 they will have been blinking for 6 years (18.9 million blinks) and have yet to report a low battery. It is not possible for the LED in a thumb drive to drain the 12 volt battery. That is pure nonsense in my opinion as a degreed electrical engineer.

 

Remote operation of the windows puts a huge load on the battery. That's 5 motors (4 if no moon roof) running at the same time. The car was supposedly designed to handle that load.

 

My big battery project will take another step today. An Optima deep cycle battery will be delivered and installed into the car. I want to compare the deep cycle battery to the large starter battery that is in the car now.

[mrobinso8]

Murphy - I eagerly await the report on your new and improved battery. If this last fix does not work I will have to decide to keep car and give up on Ford or get another car. Thanks. I have a Master Degree in Computer Information Systems so fully understand your frustrations when Ford thinks it customers are uninformed ignorant consumers who will believe anything they are told, ignoring logic of course. Will a deep cycle battery keep its voltage up above the point where the battery saver kicks in? I though a deep cycle allowed the battery to discharge more without harm. I obviously do not understand the different battery technologies for 12 volts for a car except that the installed one lacks reserve capacity. If you have time could you explain so all us followers can understand that part.

Thanks

Edited December 19, 2013 by mrobinso8

[acdii]

Well, if your drive is draining the battery, then the USB module is bad as it ISN'T SHUTTING DOWN! Run that past the mopes working on your car and see what they say. BTW, the moment the car door is opened, power is applied to the USB ports, so when they open the door and look, yeah, the light will be on. I have had my iphone plugged in all day, and never had issues, I have even had my Ipad plugged in, which draws twice what the iphone does, and everytime I go and open the door I can hear them switch from battery to usb by making that goofy bleep sound which means the USB power came on.

 

Sounds to me that your car has a faulty wiring somewhere sapping juice from the battery. Any mechanic worth his title should be able to determine if there is abnormal battery drain when the car is fully turned off. All it takes is a bridge tap between the car ground and the battery negative and a good meter. Compare the readings to a known good car that doesnt have BS issues.

[GrySql]

 

My big battery project will take another step today. An Optima deep cycle battery will be delivered and installed into the car. I want to compare the deep cycle battery to the large starter battery that is in the car now.

Murphy, as you are an Electrical Engineer I most likely am not telling you anything new with the following.

SLI (Starting, lights and ignition) batteries are meant for high load use like energizing a starter motor and supplying lots of power for a short period of time. A SLI battery needs to be kept at a high voltage (11v +) or it will die if it is run flat too many times.

Deep cycle batteries do not usually put out as high a CCA output but they can sustain a voltage drain for a longer time and deeper into their voltage. Repeated drain flat situations don't affect them as much and they can be recharged many times without losing a large percentage of their specific gravity when recharged - think golf cart, trolling motor, etc.

 

Because the FFH's LVB does not start the car it seems to me (not degreed at anything) that a deep cycle battery makes more sense because of what it actually does in the FFH.

With the ability to not lose much of its capacity if left in a voltage draining situation it can be brought back to life over and over.

 

Of course, if the FFH's charging system is running properly all this is moot, but in certain cars the charging system does not work correctly.

Having the Dealer recharge a dead SLI battery in a FFH only gives you back a battery that has less capacity that it did when new because every time it goes flat it loses it's overall capacity.

 

Anyway, that was the way I understood it when I maintained large fire service apparatus, each battery has it's place and function.

 

Is your new Optima battery a Gel type?

[murphy]

Is your new Optima battery a Gel type?

 

No, it's an AGM battery.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006QH56GE/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[GrySql]

Well, good luck, I think you're on the right track and that is a powerful battery.

You're doing all of us a service with your hard work and experimenting, thanks.

 

Gotta love Amazon too...

[acdii]

That does appear to be the type of battery that should be used in our cars. I do like the Optima's they take a beating and come back. I had thought I killed the two in my F350, they were both DEAD, I mean DEAD! 1 volt was about all I saw. but after repeated high amp bursts and then some low amp deep charges, they both came back with enough juice to fire up a really cold diesel, without the aid of the starting cycle on the charger.

[Barsoom]

Watching this thread with interest, as I've also been complaining about this since February 2013. My local dealer insists that my battery is fine. It probably is fine as far as the battery goes; it's just too small for the needs of the car.

 

I still get the battery saver message, too. I haven't tried another home charge of the battery, and it seems like the occasional 60 minute drive isn't making the message go away for very long.

 

I'm still a short-hop driver most of the time, 3.5 miles to work and 3.5 miles home.

[GrySql]

That does appear to be the type of battery that should be used in our cars. I do like the Optima's they take a beating and come back. I had thought I killed the two in my F350, they were both DEAD, I mean DEAD! 1 volt was about all I saw. but after repeated high amp bursts and then some low amp deep charges, they both came back with enough juice to fire up a really cold diesel, without the aid of the starting cycle on the charger.

All that is good but even though the Deep Cycle can take a beating, it was mentioned earlier that at what voltage does the FFH signal the computer to flash the Low Battery Alert.

Having a cabable battery still doesn't mean the FFH's computer will charge it correctly and not throw codes at certain voltage levels.

 

This is all very surprising that the Ford engineers would put such a LVB system in these cars.

They did it on purpose and are defending it through the Dealers with constant denials that anything is wrong.

Why?

[gkinla]

Watching this thread with interest, as I've also been complaining about this since February 2013. My local dealer insists that my battery is fine. It probably is fine as far as the battery goes; it's just too small for the needs of the car.

 

I still get the battery saver message, too. I haven't tried another home charge of the battery, and it seems like the occasional 60 minute drive isn't making the message go away for very long.

 

I'm still a short-hop driver most of the time, 3.5 miles to work and 3.5 miles home.

 

I took delivery of my 2013 FFH on 12-12-12. Starting in April 2013, I started to get the BS messages daily then several times a day. I spoke with my SA regarding this, I mentioning to him that I should be able to listen to the radio after shutting off the ignition, and this condition was not acceptable. After several battery checks, that came back okay, I put my foot down and asked my SA to get to the bottom of the problem. Several days later he called me and said that speaking with his FFH technician, there were rumors that Ford got a batch of bad batteries. He told me to bring the car in and the battery would be replaced. The battery was replaced and I haven't had a BS message (pun intended) since. I also bought a cigarette lighter USB port with a digital volt meter display. When the FFH is running the voltage is a constant 14.1 vcd which tells me that the charging circuit is working. When the ignition is off the volt meter reads 12.2 vdc. I bought it for a instant, visual trouble shooting device and has been a valuable aid.

[Barsoom]

 

This is all very surprising that the Ford engineers would put such a LVB system in these cars.

They did it on purpose and are defending it through the Dealers with constant denials that anything is wrong.

Why?

 

I agree. It's also a wonder as to why the original owner's manual lists a 500CC battery as the standard part, and not the 390CC battery that they eventually went with.

 

That makes me think that the engineers originally did want a higher capacity battery in the car, but a production change was made at the last minute.

[Barsoom]

 

I put my foot down and asked my SA to get to the bottom of the problem. Several days later he called me and said that speaking with his FFH technician, there were rumors that Ford got a batch of bad batteries. He told me to bring the car in and the battery would be replaced. The battery was replaced and I haven't had a BS message (pun intended) since. I also bought a cigarette lighter USB port with a digital volt meter display. When the FFH is running the voltage is a constant 14.1 vcd which tells me that the charging circuit is working. When the ignition is off the volt meter reads 12.2 vdc. I bought it for a instant, visual trouble shooting device and has been a valuable aid.

 

My SA refused to do this. He wouldn't go beyond the basic testing of the battery. He wasn't interested in doing a deeper analysis of the problem. We here know about the story of bad batteries from 4Q12. My car was built on 6-Feb-13, so I don't know if the batteries were replaced by then.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with the dealership; I think it's one of the better ones around. I think it was just this one SA that was being obstinant.

 

I like the idea about a voltage meter in the 12V plug. I've been putting a multi-meter on the 12V battery directly, but not under load (when the car is turned on). I've been getting between 12.06 - 12.12 VDC when the car is off. There was a time when I got a reading of 11.88 VDC when the car was off. I think I also got about 14 VDC the one time I tried it with the car running.

 

I wonder if the problem is not voltage, but current flow. I don't want to break the circuit to insert the multi-meter to see what the current draw is when the car is running vs. when it is off. I would assume that the current drops when the voltage drops.

[erichFla]

Well my Battery Saver issue is back. No point in taking it back to the dealership as they are going to tell me it's Normal for this type car or it's my driving , not enough milage but they won't tell me what the correct milage is to drive it per day or month.

 

See MY post number 40 and Read their write up on the Battery Saver problem.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7467-tsb-13-7-11-battery-saver-message/page-2

[hybridbear]

Well my Battery Saver issue is back. No point in taking it back to the dealership as they are going to tell me it's Normal for this type car or it's my driving , not enough milage but they won't tell me what the correct milage is to drive it per day or month.

 

See MY post number 40 and Read their write up on the Battery Saver problem.

 

http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7467-tsb-13-7-11-battery-saver-message/page-2

Have you gotten Ashley involved?

[corncobs]

After driving to work I got the BS message as well which really surprised me. When I turned on the car yesterday no BS message. Today after driving 37 miles I got the message, really odd IMO.

[milleron]

I was one of the lucky ones who did succeed in getting my battery replaced because of the BS messages. That was about 3-4 months ago, and the messages did, indeed, go away with the new battery. I saw one (and only one) battery-saver message during the polar vortex when the temps here were around -7°. As it hasn't returned since then, I'm not yet declaring a recurrence of the problem. I'm mentioning it just as evidence that replacing a batterythat's giving the BS messages all the time, can, in fact, fix the problem. My car was manufactured the second week of April, by the way -- i.e., probably didn't have a battery from the batch that was known to be bad.

[FordService]

Hi folks,

 

I'm happy to lend a hand and see how I can assist. If you've been to the dealer and still need help, PM me your name, phone number, VIN, mileage, and dealer info.

 

Ashley

[inco]

Well reading through all of the posts here I think I might be headed for some issues myself. I hope not, but once a week, maybe twice I'll head into the city (Toronto) and the rest of the time I'm doing short trips to get groceries, banking and whatever. It's the short trips issue that has me worried because I'll be doing them as well as perhaps having the car sit for two of three days outdoors.

[acdii]

I wouldnt worry about it too much. If it was a bigger issue we would be seeing a lot more complaints. When you do your trips, either make the furthest location first, or make it last so that it takes the longest time. This will give the car time to charge up the 12V battery. I have never had BS message in mine, but I also dont sit and listen to the radio with the car not running. I did that once in my 2010, had the radio going while detailing the car, found out it did not have a battery saver, and I killed the battery. I have an ihome now that I plug my iphone into instead when I am working on the cars.

[corncobs]

..or put a solar panel battery charger in the car seems to working for me and it only costs a few bucks.

[hermans]

I wouldnt worry about it too much. If it was a bigger issue we would be seeing a lot more complaints. When you do your trips, either make the furthest location first, or make it last so that it takes the longest time. This will give the car time to charge up the 12V battery. I have never had BS message in mine, but I also dont sit and listen to the radio with the car not running. I did that once in my 2010, had the radio going while detailing the car, found out it did not have a battery saver, and I killed the battery. I have an ihome now that I plug my iphone into instead when I am working on the cars.

The number of FFH and MKZh owners is vastly larger than the small number of people posting on this site.

Edited January 17, 2014 by hermans