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Guest Message by DevFuse

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When should Regen engage?

Regen Braking Charging

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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Intensesense

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:43 PM

I'm have driven two different FFH in the past week. The first was 2015 se the second a 2016 titanium. The 2015 Regen did not engage untill I put pressure on the brake pedal, but the 2016 engages as soon as I release the throttle pedal. Which one is functioning properly?







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#2 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 05:01 PM

Assuming a hybrid works the same as an Energi, putting the gear selector in L puts regen on the accelerator pedal in addition to the brake pedal.  In D regen is only on the brake pedal.


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#3 OFFLINE   Waldo

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 08:44 PM

Both are.  Ford made a change in 2016 to make regen more aggressive.



#4 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 09:27 AM

Both are.  Ford made a change in 2016 to make regen more aggressive.

Yup ... agreed.  I had a '15 before the current '17.  Very different scenarios to get regen to kick in.


Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice


#5 OFFLINE   One

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 04:37 AM

Thus on new models regen is working when you do not depress the gas pedal.

What is happening when you depress the brake? Regen first and then (if you keep pushing) the brake pads ?

 

 

2014 quote from a Ford dealer website: "So how exactly does it capture that energy and use it to charge the battery? Well, when the brake pedal is pushed down, the electric motor goes to work and spins "in the opposite direction that the wheels are spinning in. The reversal of the wheels turns the vehicle into a power generator that produces electrical energy, and as we stated earlier, that electricity is routed to the battery of the vehicle which helps to keep the electric motor working for longer periods of time. At higher speeds the traditional brake pads are still necessary to bring the hybrids to a stop safely, but the regenerative braking system runs regardless."

 



#6 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 24 December 2018 - 11:14 PM

On my '15, regen began when I touched the brake pedal and proceeded like you have in the description.  On my '17, once I lift my foot from the gas pedal, if conditions allow, regen happens ... as well as brake pedal usage. 

 

On both cars there was a "Power Flow" under the "Apps" button in the center stack screen.  This would show status of battery (charge/discharge), drive (electric/hybrid) and a little more.  Using this or watching the battery icon in the left screen you can know when regen is happening.  TBH the battery icon is a whole lot less distracting.  The app is for a short "Oh,, wow!" moment for your passengers.


Edited by Cobra348, 24 December 2018 - 11:15 PM.

Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice


#7 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 11:17 AM

In a 2013 Energi putting the car in L adds the regen to the accelerator pedal.  There is a dead point where there is neither acceleration nor regen.  Pushing on the pedal from this point accelerates  Pulling back from this point decelerates.  The deceleration strength can be modulated with the pedal.  This is exactly the way a Tesla works.



#8 ONLINE   mwr

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 12:16 PM

In my 2015 FFH, regen happens if you lift you foot from the gas pedal. It doesn't appear as the "shimmering" effect as when you apply the brakes, but it nevertheless happens and you can see the HVB is charging.


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#9 OFFLINE   billford

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Posted 25 December 2018 - 02:31 PM

On my '15, regen began when I touched the brake pedal and proceeded like you have in the description.  On my '17, once I lift my foot from the gas pedal, if conditions allow, regen happens ... as well as brake pedal usage. 

 

 

 

Which one has better fuel economy, the 15 or 17?



#10 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 26 December 2018 - 09:27 AM

 

Which one has better fuel economy, the 15 or 17?

The following is my own opinion and does not reflect that of others.  IMO the '15 had better fuel economy.

 

2015 FFH Titanium:

From 4/14/15 to 8/31/16

Miles:  38603

MPG (avg/low/high):  41.25 / 26.22 / 52.02.

Source:  gas receipts on all fill-ups. 

Gas brands used: Sunoco, Valero, Citgo, Kwikfill, Sheetz - 87 octane on all

 

2017 FFH SE:

From 8/31/16 to present

Miles: 41923

MPG (avg/low/high)"  38.95 / 20.00 / 56.22

Source:  same as above

Gas brands used: All except Sheetz - 87 octane

 

IMO, there is a difference between the models in the usage of the ICE - when it kicks in, duration, etc.  To me, it seems that ICE starts up at a higher SOC on the 17 over the 15.  When using cruise, I do not use ECO mode as I tested that and non-ECO over 2000 miles or so and found the non-ECO delivered slightly better MPG (like .1 or .2).  Again, that's my opinion.

 

I do not hypermile religiously and in fact many times I drive like I stole the car.  My typical long distance runs are about 5 MPH over limit whenever possible.  I do start braking/slowing further back to allow for longer regen.  I don't jackrabbit on starts and in city driving I do actually let electric drive get me to about 20 MPH in many instances.

 

In both, the roads taken and trips driven are pretty much the same.  Low MPG is from Winter driving conditions.  The '15 did multiple trips to PA (Sheetz gas), whereas the '17 has done runs to FL.

 

CAVEAT REPEAT:  These are just my opinions based on gas receipts, butt dyno and so forth.  Others will report different experiences I am sure.


Edited by Cobra348, 26 December 2018 - 09:29 AM.

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Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice


#11 OFFLINE   One

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 01:49 AM

Thanks for your reply.

I do not think it is possible (for me) to do 20 mpg with a hybrid sedan. Never did such a low mpg with my Nissan Rogue 2.5 FWD.

 

Still do not know if brake pads will react as soon as you touch the brake pedal or later.

 

What's the meaning of 95 - 100% regen indication?

Explanation such "you recovered 98% of what can be recovered" are not for engineers. 



#12 OFFLINE   murphy

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 11:17 AM

It is not possible to recover all of the energy.  100% recovery means that you got 100% of what it is possible to recover.

 

The brake pads do not react to the initial pressure on the brake pedal.  It takes practice to get maximum regen braking without engaging the brake pads.



#13 OFFLINE   One

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 12:38 PM

I do not like they show 100% on the display and I would like to know when is regen only vs regen+brake pads.

What should we practice if we do not know when brake pads are active?

Braking as gentle as possible is common sense....

 

Off topic: is navigation update free of charge? My brand new 2019 FFH cannnot find my address  ;(  



#14 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 27 December 2018 - 10:21 PM

I do not like they show 100% on the display and I would like to know when is regen only vs regen+brake pads.

What should we practice if we do not know when brake pads are active?

Braking as gentle as possible is common sense....

 

Off topic: is navigation update free of charge? My brand new 2019 FFH cannnot find my address  ;(  

First, that 20 MPG was a tank during a stretch of bitterly cold weather where I used remote start a lot.  The range of 26-28 is about right ... traction losses, going thru unplowed areas, ICE running more frequently to keep warm, etc.  When weather warms up mileage goes up very rapidly.

 

Braking ... it is my understanding that when you just touch the brake pedal, the lights in the rear come on and engine/transmission regen begins.  As you press, you'll feel when the mechanical brakes start working.  It is possible to get 100% regen in some cases, but I normally run closer to 90%.  If all you do is city driving at 30 MPH or less, it is possible to get 100% many more times than not.

 

Nav ... no idea but I can tell you this:  my home address is known to EMS, Post Office, FedEx, Voter Reg, DMV and is very visible on Google Earth.  But UPS insists it does not exist because it isn't in their database of addresses.  Kicker is that they know my neighbors address and it's a different apartment number but same street address.  And both of the townhouses (mine and neighbors) are 1992 construction, so relatively new.  Go figger. <sigh>


Edited by Cobra348, 27 December 2018 - 11:49 PM.

Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice


#15 OFFLINE   ethermion

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 06:19 AM

The braking/regen discussion is pretty much my understanding, so I can't offer anything additional.

 

Are navigation updates free?  The answer is no, map updates are not free.  My sales dude told me yes, but he also told me the spare tire was under "there".



#16 OFFLINE   md13ffhguy

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 08:48 AM

Are navigation updates free?  The answer is no, map updates are not free.  My sales dude told me yes, but he also told me the spare tire was under "there".

First time around, in 2013, I was frustrated with Ford Sync because my salesman told me the same... free downloadable map updates AND apps!

This time around, I have Android Auto... Much happier! Google Maps FTW.

244968.png


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Posted 31 December 2018 - 01:32 AM

The salesman told me also they will deliver the basic tools for replacing a wheel..... Did you experience any flat tyre ?

I do have a concern about the hybrid battery capacity. 1.4 kWH is small compared to competition and a bigger battery gives you more possibilities to regen and drive on EV.  



#18 OFFLINE   ethermion

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 08:28 AM

My last flat tire (tyre) was in the early 80s.  My wife has never had a flat.  My brother had one with low profile tires, 40s or smaller, after kissing a pothole and bending the rim.  My sister has never had a flat.  None of my 4 children ever had a flat.  I'm old school, so it creeps me out to not have a spare, but flats appear to be an endangered species.

 

Battery size, I dunno the competition.  I do know that our 13 FFH is by far the best car I ever owned.  We get great mileage - around 45mpg.  Batteries are heavy, so there is a balance to be made.  Heavy = less mpg.  Having replaced a car with a 17 gallon tank that lasted 4 days, to our FFH with a 13 gallon tank that lasts two weeks makes us giggle with delight.  It is my wife's car.  My wife is a girlie girl.  Gas is dirty and smelly.  If I am an attentive husband, and borrow her car for errands on the weekend, I'll top off her tank.  She might go months without having to pump herself.  And, she has range anxiety, which is fixed.  Happiness.

 

I also know that the Energi plug-in has bigger batteries, and basically a non functional trunk.  I like having a functional trunk.  No dreaming of a bigger battery here.

 

I do give Ford credit for being the first (I think) to use lithium-ion batteries, which are meaningfully superior to the nickle metal hydride batteries in every other hybrid at the time.  While Boeing had a tough time with the same battery technology in the 787s, Ford got it right.  And, a battery endeavors to be a lot of energy in a small space.  Dynamite is also a lot of energy in a small space.  More onboard is not necessarily desirable.

 

Happy New Year to all!



#19 OFFLINE   Cobra348

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Posted 31 December 2018 - 11:07 AM

...<snip>... I'm old school, so it creeps me out to not have a spare, but flats appear to be an endangered species.

 

Battery size, I dunno the competition.  I do know that our 13 FFH is by far the best car I ever owned.  We get great mileage - around 45mpg.  Batteries are heavy, so there is a balance to be made.  Heavy = less mpg.  Having replaced a car with a 17 gallon tank that lasted 4 days, to our FFH with a 13 gallon tank that lasts two weeks makes us giggle with delight.  It is my wife's car.  My wife is a girlie girl.  Gas is dirty and smelly.  If I am an attentive husband, and borrow her car for errands on the weekend, I'll top off her tank.  She might go months without having to pump herself.  And, she has range anxiety, which is fixed.  Happiness.

 

I also know that the Energi plug-in has bigger batteries, and basically a non functional trunk.  I like having a functional trunk.  No dreaming of a bigger battery here.

 

...<snip>...Happy New Year to all!

Spare tire ... I'm with you.  I used the shopping list here to get all the pieces brand new when i got my '15.  Use invoice part# for the correct dealer catalog number.  Cheaper option is salvage yard and get all the pieces from a 2013+ gas model.  I put the "mobility kit" in the garage.  When I traded it, everything I had done went back to EOM and then I redid all the installations on my '17.

 

Battery size ... I assume we're talking HVB?  In the FFH I believe it is somewhere around 1.75 KWh and the Energi is 7+ KWh.  What I have seen of HVB sizes (and ICE) in Malibu hybrid, Prius and Insight the numbers are around 1.5 KWh with ICE size in the 1.5 to 1.8 liter range.  I will say that Malibu (at least) must stuff the HVB under the rear seat or something as trunk space even on hybrid is 15 cubic feet as compared to FFH 12.  That's about the size of the HVB. <shrug>

 

Have a safe and sane New Year all!


Larry - aka Cobra

 

Big Red: 2017 FFH SE, Ruby Red, Med Light Stone leather

602A SE Luxury Package, Park Assist, Adaptive Cruise Control w/stop & go

Driver Assist Pkg (lane keeping, BLIS, auto high beams, rain-sensing wipers, heated steering wheel)

My additions:  WeatherTech lasercut floor mats, in-channel wind deflectors (dark smoked),

Steeda strut tower brace, Steeda rear sway bar, Steeda hood struts, Ford donut spare,

blacked out grille

Summer rims/tires - 17" Verde Regency rims with OEM tread

Winter rims/tires - 17" OEM rims with Goodyear UltraGrip WRT Ice






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