FFH has a 14.1gal Fuel Tank

[hybridbear]

What I find incredible is that the C-Max has lower EPA ratings than the Fusion due to higher aerodynamic drag, but its owners have way exceeded anything that Fusion owners have done in terms of peak MPGs.

[AeroHance]

Sunny Brae Elementary School, Sutter Jr. High School, Canoga Park High... UC Santa Barbara... and never left Santa Barbara. My name is Susanne.

Edited December 21, 2014 by AeroHance

[Texasota]

For those that think gas pods work... I have some land in Florida, Texas, and Louisiana you might be interesting in as well. ;)

 

Hey! I have one of those Tornado intake thingies that was given to me. They are good for 2-3 MPG! Oh! Oh! I also have a few of those fuel line magnets that will guarantee you get at least another 1 to 2 mpg improvement! Let me know if either will work for ya! Okay? ;)

I always trust Texans. I'll check out the the Texas land first. ;) ...I could be wrong, but I'm thinking the group therapy will not be effective...

[ptjones]

What I find incredible is that the C-Max has lower EPA ratings than the Fusion due to higher aerodynamic drag, but its owners have way exceeded anything that Fusion owners have done in terms of peak MPGs.

This just shows how good Grill Covers and GasPods are. LOL :lol: The bottom line is FFH doesn't have an aero advantage when you are averaging 30-40mph plus Grill Covers will keep ICE closer to 202*F making the ICE more efficient. When I drove 2014FFH for two weeks on the FWY I felt FFH got as good maybe better MPG's than CMAX With Grill Covers on. It did seem like the CMAX got slightly better MPG's around town, I doubt being 10 lbs lighter made a difference. I think CMAX buyers are looking for a roomy hatchback with great MPG's and were disappointed with the MPG's for the first winter until we figured out what was causing the problems. Members are still looking for ways to keep improving MPG's so we just keep trying new things all the time, we aren't that afraid of our cars. I believe I could come with similar MPG numbers in a FFH if I had one. For some members it is fun to try to keep breaking your last MPG record. IMO :)

 

Paul

[Hybrider]

What I find incredible is that the C-Max has lower EPA ratings than the Fusion due to higher aerodynamic drag, but its owners have way exceeded anything that Fusion owners have done in terms of peak MPGs.

It seems to me that maybe the C-max owners are more into the hypermiling techniques than the FFH owners are. :) Me, I'm just happy looking good while I'm getting 50 MPG without any extraordinary hypermiling practices.

[wreckedcar]

For those that think gas pods work... I have some land in Florida, Texas, and Louisiana you might be interesting in as well. ;)

 

Been a fun topic to watch and I have almost replied but I typically like to try and stay out of heated discussions where there seems to be two sides that aren't willing to give an inch either way. However, I do have to say you seem to doubt the effectiveness of gas pods which makes me wonder how much you have tested them or how much you know about them in general. I have put the magnetic ones on our 1500 series high efficiency Suburban and our V-10 Ford Excursion. Just normal driving on those two vehicles (not towing) showed completely different results. The Excursion went from about 615 miles to about 630 miles on a 44 gallon while the Suburban went from about 965 miles to about 1050 miles on a 42 gallon tank. We also put them on our Dodge Grand Caravan and saw no difference at all. I have not put them on the Fusion or the Lincoln and will not do so as I don't mind how they look on the larger vehicles and they probably look fine on a hatchback type car. So I can't say if they will make a difference there, but to insinuate that if you believe something works then you must be a fool is a bit off. So, I'm always looking for good land deals, what do you have?

 

 

Results will very depending car...

 

I agree; the result will vary depending on the car. I also think like anything else there is the law of diminishing returns and not sure how much more it would net you in the long run cost savings wise.

 

 

A while ago I thought I remember hearing a couple manufactures (including maybe Ford for the Flex or Edge) have been working to include something as part of the vehicle from the get go. Obviously not a stick on, but part of the design. Have you heard of any manufactures or seen any cars from the factory with something similar to these gas pods?

 

 

The other things is, what do I have to do in order to get my Suburban listed as an honorary 1000+ Mile member?

[Easy Rider]

 

The Excursion went from about 615 miles to about 630 miles on a 44 gallon while the Suburban went from about 965 miles to about 1050 miles on a 42 gallon tank. We also put them on our Dodge Grand Caravan and saw no difference at all.

 

The more information the better.

BUT....quoting gas mileage figures based on tank capacity is often misleading and sometimes confusing and almost always inaccurate.

[ptjones]

 

It seems to me that maybe the C-max owners are more into the hypermiling techniques than the FFH owners are. :) Me, I'm just happy looking good while I'm getting 50 MPG without any extraordinary hypermiling practices.

 

It sure looks that way, not sure what you mean by extraordinary hypermiling practices. Hypermiling to me means P&G, Drafting, watching speed and taking advantage of traffic to Maximizing braking score. MPG Mods are aerodynamic and heat conservation like Grill Covers, wheel covers, spoilers and GasPods. There is also raising tire pressure to 50psi to cut down rolling resistance and improve longevity of tire. I got 65k out of my Michelin's with even ware at 50psi. :)

 

Paul

[wreckedcar]

 

The more information the better.

BUT....quoting gas mileage figures based on tank capacity is often misleading and sometimes confusing and almost always inaccurate.

 

I'm not sure what more information you want but let me know and I will supply it. Quoting it as MPG, the Excursion only went up by about .34 MPG but the Suburban went up by slightly over 2 MPG.

 

I like to get an idea of MPG but on the big toys as well as the Fusion I pretty much pay more attention to how many miles I have gone on a tank to know when i need to fill it up and that is why I typed it that way.

[lolder]

The car computer mpg calculations are the most precise and repeatable. They usually have an offset error that is constant and once you know what it is, the corrected mpg is the most accurate. Variations in fueling pump shutoff levels produce much more inaccuracy. For instance, my 2010 FFH calculations are 4 % too high for mpg. The odometer, however reads 2 % low in miles traveled. That yields an overall error of 2 % high in the mpg calculations. That's 1 mpg.

[Easy Rider]

Variations in fueling pump shutoff levels produce much more inaccuracy.

Not over the long term it doesn't.

How DID you determine the error factor with the onboard calculation if not by manual filling ??

 

But I also generally agree with what you said.

 

And just out of curiosity, how did you go about figuring the error factor with the ODO ?

[Easy Rider]

 

I'm not sure what more information you want but let me know and I will supply it. Quoting it as MPG, the Excursion only went up by about .34 MPG but the Suburban went up by slightly over 2 MPG.

I'm sorry about the wording; thanks for posting that.....and supplying additional information.

 

A difference of .34 MPG is well within the statistical margin of error.

And even 2 MPG is too over a short term.

 

Miles per tank may be useful for deciding when to fill up but it is meaningless for MPG discussion without actually calculating the miles and gallons.

[ptjones]

Not over the long term it doesn't.

How DID you determine the error factor with the onboard calculation if not by manual filling ??

 

But I also generally agree with what you said.

 

And just out of curiosity, how did you go about figuring the error factor with the ODO ?

I have done it with Garmin many times for my record MPG runs. When Michelin's are new it's 1.9%, old 65Kmi. 1.4% and everyone that have tested for it have come up with similar results. :)

 

Paul

[Texasota]

Hypermiling to me means P&G, Drafting, watching speed and taking advantage of traffic to Maximizing braking score.

 

Here is an article/video about hypermiling. Many of these techniques are dangerous to yourself and other motorists and they are also illegal:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-hypermiling-often-risky-illegal/

 

From the above article about hypermiling techniques:

 

 

They include rolling through stop signs to avoid braking, turning off a car's engine or shifting into neutral to coast down hills, over-inflating tires to decrease rolling resistance against pavement, and other techniques.

 

One action that authorities say is particularly dangerous is called "drafting," tailgating big rigs in hopes of cutting wind resistance and being pulled along in a truck's wake.

 

"Every one of them is illegal," Connecticut State Police spokesman Trooper William Tate said of the "hypermiling" techniques.

 

"But more importantly, they're extremely dangerous. Every one of them is the cause of accidents," he said.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Texasota

[GrySql]

Drafting is hard on my pretty white platinum paint too.

Trucks and cars throw debris up in their wake and create road rash paint chips on the front end and windshield of the following vehicles.

Just ask a motorcycle driver about this, they feel it personally.

[lolder]

Not over the long term it doesn't.

How DID you determine the error factor with the onboard calculation if not by manual filling ??

 

But I also generally agree with what you said.

 

And just out of curiosity, how did you go about figuring the error factor with the ODO ?

The long term is correct; probably 10 fill ups. That's how I got the correction factor. I got the odometer error by comparing GPS distances and interstate mile markers with the odometer. Everything agrees. The odometer error did not measurably change over 60K miles of the OEM Michelins tire life.

Fueling is probably only accurate at repeat fill-ups with auto shut off of the same pump.

This car very accurately knows how much fuel it is using. It needs to know for a variety of operational reasons so the calculations are easy. Why are they always too high? Marketing and the lack of strict regulations. The net 2% error that I've measured is very low. They could make it 0.2 % if they wanted to.

Edited December 22, 2014 by lolder

[ptjones]

 

Here is an article/video about hypermiling. Many of these techniques are dangerous to yourself and other motorists and they are also illegal:

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-hypermiling-often-risky-illegal/

 

From the above article about hypermiling techniques:

 

This article is really about "extreme hypermiling" which I don't think I do. Never had a Hypermiling accident in 45Years of driving and thank God very few at all. Everyone extreme hypermiles if they drive FWY's, if FWY's are crowed you can't keep the appropriate distance from the car in front of you without someone filling the hole so this goes on and on. For me 50-100ft works on Semi's for me, gives me enough time to react and I try to see what is going on up the HWY too. It is very important to stay focused on what's in front of you at all times and it is not for everyone. IMO :)

 

Paul

[AeroHance]

 

Snip I have put the magnetic ones on our 1500 series high efficiency Suburban and our V-10 Ford Excursion. Just normal driving on those two vehicles (not towing) showed completely different results. The Excursion went from about 615 miles to about 630 miles on a 44 gallon while the Suburban went from about 965 miles to about 1050 miles on a 42 gallon tank. We also put them on our Dodge Grand Caravan and saw no difference at all.

 

SNIP

 

 

Thank you for chiming in on this issue. would you mind showing us pictures of placement on your suburban and excursion?

 

And, does the dodge grand caravan have a smooth roof or ridges on the roof?

[Texasota]

For me 50-100ft works on Semi's for me, gives me enough time to react and I try to see what is going on up the HWY too.

 

If you are 50 feet behind a semi at highway speeds you do not have enough time to react. At 65 MPH you are traveling 96 feet per second. Most state driver exams require familarity with the "three second rule" which requires 288 feet separation at 65 MPH on roads in good driving conditions.

 

50 feet is only 16.7 yards and you can't see around the semi to see what is going on up ahead on the highway. Nor can the semi driver see you in his mirrors.

 

Do you do this to other motorists as well, or just semi's?

Edited December 23, 2014 by Texasota

[GrySql]

 

If you are 50 feet behind a semi at highway speeds you do not have enough time to react. At 65 MPH you are traveling 96 feet per second. Most state driver exams require familarity with the "three second rule" which requires 288 feet separation at 65 MPH on roads in good driving conditions.

 

50 feet is only 16.7 yards and you can't see around the semi to see what is going on up ahead on the highway. Nor can the semi driver see you in his mirrors.

Love the math but you might be drafting PT's tailgate a bit too close, he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

If you want to see some Cirque du Soleil traffic driving come with me on one of my trips to my Dealer 70 miles away thru L.A.'s best prime time destruction derby. Hoots mon....

[Texasota]

Love the math but you might be drafting PT's tailgate a bit too close, he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

Point taken - but I would not be drafting at all if it wasn’t for the aggressive cajoling and recruiting of others to participate in this behavior.

[GrySql]

Point taken - but I would not be drafting at all if it wasn’t for the aggressive cajoling and recruiting of others to participate in this behavior.

I understand, he may have run out of recruits on the C-Max Forum and we're a tempting bunch of plums just tootling along enjoying our good looking, quiet cars. However, I wonder if PT's group have accomplished what a couple of members here have done. Forget the 64 mpg's, what about MPH?

While, like yourself, I don't condone unsafe driving practices, we've had some reports that these FFH's top speed is 120mph. Early on some members posted that they have hit the top speed limiter switch at that speed. I personally have seen, well, the Ford spec's say 104 mph is the FFH's top speed and I know that is not correct. I do admit that my mpg's suffered as a result of that 'emergency' maneuver and my Event Data Recorder was primed to slap my right foot.

 

Yo, PT, any of your crowd ever admit to what the C-Max's top speed is, on level ground?

[hermans]

Drafting semi = hamburger meat.

[wreckedcar]

Thank you for chiming in on this issue. would you mind showing us pictures of placement on your suburban and excursion?

 

And, does the dodge grand caravan have a smooth roof or ridges on the roof?

The Suburban is 1200 miles down the road until later this winter so I won't be able to get to that one. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure on the van roof but I believe it is smooth. I will try to get a picture up sometime soon but this will probably be the last time I'm on the forum for a bit (I don't do the whole online thing much outside of my morning ritual and my morning ritual is completely different during the holidays). I have magnetic ones for the Suburban and Excursion and have played around with different placement but for the most part I would describe their placement as being symmetrically placed. Same as with the van on being symmetrical, but those are stick on ones.

 

Also, just for more information, the Suburban and Excursion are both at around 150K miles while the van is at 250K. The big boys both got their gaspods at around 70-80K miles. The van didn't get it's until about 140K miles and once it got up to about 180K miles the oldest daughter pretty much took it over as her daily driver. So I only had about 40K miles to see how it was performing before a lead footed teenager started driving it. So maybe results could be better for others on a Caravan.

[ptjones]

GrySql

"Yo, PT, any of your crowd ever admit to what the C-Max's top speed is, on level ground?" I can't find any info on max speed, the highest I've gone is about 90-95mph in TX on I-10/I-20 where Speed limit is 80MPH. I get depressed when my instantaneous MPG's drops below 35mpg for any length of time. LOL I do get excited getting 50+ mpg doing 75-85mph on east bound I-10/I-20 with 20-30mph tail wind and some drafting. :yahoo: Never fails to have the winds turn around and end up with head wind. Oh well it was great while it lasted. ;(
Paul

Edited May 18, 2016 by ptjones