Ford Motor Company Lowers Fuel Economy Ratings For Six Vehicles

[alpha754293]

Here's my question: why do Fusion Energi owners get more money than C-Max Energi owners? The two vehicles had identical EPA ratings before and have identical EPA ratings after, yet they have different payments. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

And another one that perhaps alpha can answer: how did Ford determine the amount of the payments? Is the payment designed to cover the difference in fuel costs for a certain number of miles?

 

And, alpha, it's nice to hear from you again :)

 

That is a very interesting question and I will be honest - I actually didn't notice it. I only looked at the FFH numbers because, like many members here, I have a FFH myself. But I will try and ask and find out and see if I can get an answer that I can share with you guys.

 

Thank you for all your support and positive comments.

 

I think that this is interesting to me not only because I work here and the guys in the next aisle over are the fuel economy folks, but also because of HOW our management and senior management and executive leadership handled this issue. The fact that we that we found the issue, and then reported it up through the chain and escalated it - I mean - in the current business world/environment - where we can actually come out and say "we made a mistake and we are doing this as one of the fixes (in addition to other action items on the corrective action plan)" - I mean that's HUGE. Not very many people do that. Not very many companies do that nowadays.

 

And we did it in a relatively short period of three months. (Some of those fuel economy guys had some VERY long nights.)

 

We know that fuel economy is important to our customers across the board. And as far as I can see, we're the only one out of the Detroit three that's making it a top priority, which sometimes carries risk for being a leader (or at least we're working hard and fighting for it).

 

I STILL have customs agents that would periodically ask me "Is that the new Fusion hybrid?" or "nice car" as I am crossing the border every day to get to and from work. I like that it surprises people when people see that I've got a Fusion hybrid and how it is NOT what they imagine hybrids to look like (meaning you can have a good looking car AND something that's economy - you don't have to trade style for fuel economy.)

 

There are TOO many companies out there that when something goes bad or wrong, the first thing their senior leadership and executive management would say is "oh we didn't know anything about it." And it is my personal belief that in your role as senior leadership and executive management, it is your job to find out. And people will speculate on a lot of things that happened. And they can speculate on whatever they want.

 

(I LOVE that quote from Neil deGrasse Tyson!)

 

Fuel economy is not as easy as I think a lot of people think it is. And if people ever want to know more about how fuel economy ACTUALLY works, they can always read 76 FR 39477 (esp. the equations/formulas starting on p. 39539 in §600.114-12(a)(1) or 77 FR 62623, esp. starting on p. 63182.

 

You can find all of the details about how fuel economy ACTUALLY works from those two documents. The first is a short 111 page read. The second is slightly longer at 578 pages. They're good reads if you want to know how it REALLY works. And they're FRs, so they're actually readable (other than the columnar format).

77 FR 62623

76 FR 39477

76 FR 39477

[ChrisAshton84]

Hmmm I bought mine used w/ 3k miles, full warranty, from a Lincoln dealer. I sure hope I qualify as a 'current owner' - I'm the one who's going to be paying the bill the next 10 years, not the original owner!

[robertlane]

This is the way that it should be done :victory:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz19ugjFZG0

[B25Nut]

I hope that B25Nut is wrong about questionable ethics being the cause of this. I hope it really was just an honest mistake.

 

I'm one of the happiest FFH owners around, but I'm disappointed that Ford didn't have a system that would triple check the figures that were input to create their engineering models. I don't feel someone intentionally entered wrong data, but when the results created such great EPA numbers, they didn't want to verify if the initial numbers were correct. Ford states that the models "are validated through vehicle testing, including physical track tests ". Why didn't this produce a red flag back then? And why wasn't this error discovered back in March, 2013 when the EPA discrepancies were obvious. Someone at Ford must have said "we need to double check all our numbers", and those who missed the errors back then should see some consequences.

The new EPA figures still would have put the 2013 FFH ahead of its main competition when it was introduced. I think Ford has learned a lot from this episode and has adjusted their culture, which is why I am now even more confident in Ford's long term future.

[MaineFusion]

This is the way that it should be done :victory:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz19ugjFZG0

 

I agree, I think they have handled this issue is the best possible way. On the scale of mistakes car makers have made, this honestly is pretty minor and the correction seems to have been pretty swift. Especially when you compare it with GM's ignition switch issue.

 

What I really like is how simple the rebate process is. I put over 20,000 mi/year on my FFH, so I'm on the higher end of what the average person drives, but I like the simplicity of the one time rebate as opposed to how Hyundai requires annual mileage comparisons to determine the rebate amount. Ford's method is less hassle for everyone and allows the issue to be put behind them much faster. I am hoping that maybe they can find some more software fixes they can give us to help improve things, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[tbranca]

There are thousands of people's only getting mid 30s like me. I bought mine the 1st week they came out. And I will bet any won there is no way on earth my car could get 47 mpg I could tail gate a trucker at 5mph and only get 38mpg every time the motor turns on I get 19th

[hybridbear]

On MyFord Mobile a dealer posted details about how the rebates are calculated:

 

Ford calculated the Goodwill payment amount using the following formula.

1) Price of gas (Ford internal forecast of $3.54)

2) Average number of miles driven annually (varies per vehicle, based on Ford internal customer survey data)

3) Gas mileage differential (previous vs. revised ratings) for combined fuel economy.

*A further 15% goodwill payment added to account for variability in actual mileage and fuel price.

*The resultant figure then multiplied by years of use (five for retail sale, three for retail lease).

*The final number was rounded to closest $25.

This must explain the difference in payments for the Fusion Energi versus the C-Max Energi. Ford must be estimating that Fusion Energi owners drive more miles per year than C-Max Energi owners.

 

What's interesting is that they only expect owners to keep their cars for 5 years and that is how many years of fuel economy payments we're getting. And their price of gas forecast seems low at $3.54.

[SteveB_TX]

Wow! We get an added bonus of $0.24 a gallon! Sweet! :)

[lolder]

There are thousands of people's only getting mid 30s like me. I bought mine the 1st week they came out. And I will bet any won there is no way on earth my car could get 47 mpg I could tail gate a trucker at 5mph and only get 38mpg every time the motor turns on I get 19th

If your car doesn't start getting high 40's in warm weather on medium length moderate speed trips with moderate AC use, there is something wrong with it. We know of at least one FFH that was running rich for reasons undetermined. The spark plugs looked sooty. Ford was unable to rectify the problem then and the vehicle was exchanged for another which was fine.

[Eddie Sessum]

I remember the sooty car but didn't realize they replaced it.

 

 

Based on what I've seen with my mkzh and my friends hyti in very hot weather unless your driving 30min+ expect around 32mpg (extremely short trips way less)

Thing that would prevent high 40s at moderate speed is the ev mode. I can go along at 50-55mph and get close to 50mpg until it hits ev mode. After it uses up the battery and start to charge it gets worse. Didn't someone have math numbers to show that going in full ev on the highway is worse? It was like a 18% loss to charge the battery vs just leaving it topped off and riding ICE only.

[corncobs]

I remember the sooty car but didn't realize they replaced it.

 

Not "they" replaced he "the owner" replaced it with the generous help of his customer first dealer. :)

[Eddie Sessum]

Ouch.. I wouldn't think a dealer would even want to take that in trade to sell to another person unless later on they got Ford to eat the cost and give a new in its place.

[hybridbear]

Didn't someone have math numbers to show that going in full ev on the highway is worse? It was like a 18% loss to charge the battery vs just leaving it topped off and riding ICE only.

Check out this thread: http://www.fordfusionenergiforum.com/topic/1880-obd-ii-data-for-ice/

Some of the data is Energi specific, but lots of it applies to the hybrid too and Larryh has figured out that there are specific energy consumption thresholds, above the threshold and you're better off running pure ICE without EV, below the threshold and you're better off shutting down the ICE and running EV to deplete the battery and then turning the ICE back on to charge the HVB.

[Eddie Sessum]

I don't think that chart applys well for flat land without Hills. When Ford changed the top speed for ev it made me get worse because I don't have those small hills to go down in ev mode.

[MaineFusion]

On MyFord Mobile a dealer posted details about how the rebates are calculated:

This must explain the difference in payments for the Fusion Energi versus the C-Max Energi. Ford must be estimating that Fusion Energi owners drive more miles per year than C-Max Energi owners.

 

What's interesting is that they only expect owners to keep their cars for 5 years and that is how many years of fuel economy payments we're getting. And their price of gas forecast seems low at $3.54.

We almost never go down to $3.54/gal. Still, they had to pick something and it seems like they based the rebate on a reasonable formula. It's more than other companies would have done unless forced to.

[GrySql]

There are thousands of people's only getting mid 30s like me. I bought mine the 1st week they came out. And I will bet any won there is no way on earth my car could get 47 mpg I could tail gate a trucker at 5mph and only get 38mpg every time the motor turns on I get 19th

Have you done anything to try and improve that, like discuss it with the Dealer or do a 'Hard Reset'?

Now might be a real good time because Ford just admitted that the EPA was low and any respectable Dealer's Service Department ought to listen and try to help you with that mpg problem.

Edited June 14, 2014 by GrySql

[acdii]

I got my first 47 MPG tank. I couldn't be more happier with this car.

[djminfll]

I commend Ford for not waiting until there is a lawsuit to do something. This makes for a much better judgement in the court of public opinion.

[Hybrider]

Even though I am relatively new to FFHs and this forum, I can't believe how many different feelings and emotions this announcement from Ford has generated inside of me. But I really, really appreciate all of you on this forum hashing out some of these feelings here, as it helps me to explore and analyze at least some of all of those feelings I am feeling.

 

I'm sure all of us here had the feeling in the back of our minds that this could happen for the FFHs, but it sure seemed to me like the FFH was going to be immune to it and remain at a constant 47 MPG rating across the board since the FFH fuel economy ratings weren't downgraded when the C-MAX was, or even for a quite a long time afterwards.

 

I have had at least one tank (first one actually) that was well above the 47 MPG EPA estimate, even though I never expected to get to the EPA estimates, since I rarely have on any of my previous cars. But even though the hot desert weather has eroded my FE down to the 42-45 range lately, I will ALWAYS FOREVER be striving to reach the 47 MPG rating and beyond, because that is what we do as hybrid and FFH enthusiasts!!!

Edited June 15, 2014 by Hybrider

[djminfll]

In all honesty, I have NEVER had a car that matched the EPA ratings. I can go back over every car I've owned in the last 20 years, and they are always come up short on the EPA figures. My Honda accord was rated at something like 24 city/32 highway, I was lucky if I got 24 on the highway. I reset my Trip 2 at 20K miles, and in the last 4,500 miles, my average is 45.7mpg. I will continue to think that for most people who are not managing decent fuel economy numbers, it's all in how you drive the car. My original Trip 2 was at about 43mpg, due to some of the early tankfuls that I got poor fuel economy because I was driving it like it was an ICE vehicle. I believe the last 5K miles are more indicative of what my car does.

[PoohBaby]

OK...I bought a HyTi yesterday. Will I get a goodwill compensation too???

 

[murphy]

OK...I bought a HyTi yesterday. Will I get a goodwill compensation too???

 

What are the fuel mileage numbers on your window sticker?

[Eddie Sessum]

OK...I bought a HyTi yesterday. Will I get a goodwill compensation too???

 

Ratings were officially updated on the 12th so no. If your dealer didn't update the window sticker that's something that may be blamed on your dealer and I don't know how that would work.

[DetroitSunset]

Nice, I plan to pick up my new 2014 Fusion H T this coming week after shoping and researching the car for two years and then waiting 7 weeks for special order Tianium. Wonder if it will have a new sticker or if I will get the $775.00... I agreed to the 47/47...

[hybridbear]

In the dealer announcement posted here there is an interesting paragraph

 

Additionally, affected Lincoln MKZ clients will be offered a Lincoln Makers selection of three gifts which include a Shinola iPad cover, Toms Sunglasses or a gift certificate to The Capital Grille. To redeem this gift offer, clients can contact a Lincoln Curator at 866-793-5940 or go to www.lincolnmakers.com/HybridGift and make a selection.