class action

[lolder]

It's been mentioned that one should be getting better mileage "if you live in the warmth". Is there a point where heat (a/c use) negatively affects mpg?

I live in "balmy" southern NV. where temps are already close to 100, and in the summer regularly top 110.

I expect that in early spring, late fall and winter, our temps would be considered living "in the warmth" as daytime highs range from the 70's to mid 80's.

(The lease on our '11 MKS expires in a few months and we look forward to getting an MKZ hybrid.)

I think 90-95 yields the max mpg but the length of the trip is important. Trying to cool down a heat soaked car even in the 80's on short trips is a killer.

[jeff_h]

You. were. wrong.

I admit it, back when I had the SE Hybrid I would just post pics from 'short' trips like the below - the car was barely able to hit that 47, and by several of those flukes the lifetime showed 50.9 over 35k miles when I sold it.

 

I'm no 'expert' but was able to get good results with the 2013 SE Hybrid. When I saw posts from those struggling with MPG I'd see if the member's location was listed, and if in VA I sent PMs on either 3 or 4 occasions to those members asking if they would like to get together and drive both of our cars on the same around-town trips under the exact same conditions and check the differences (and then drive each others' car again on the same course for comparison) - not to claim that I could have gotten great results with their cars since there truly may have been something wrong with those VINs but rather to get that direct comparison. Sadly, of those 3 or 4 offers there were zero takers, and one of those was our old friend Fynack and I sure wanted to drive his car since he claimed very poor numbers. But oh well, all one can do is offer.

 

Sorry about your frustrating experiences, I had great experiences with my hybrid and tried to help others with noting methods that tended to yield good results for me, as I believe to also be the case with others here whose cars have yielded good results but never made the claim to be 'experts'.

 

[Griswald]

The "experts" on this forum repeatedly blame the driver or hilly conditions for not acheiving the posted EPA mileage figures on the FFH. They contend it is not the car because it is absolutely capable of getting Ford's stated 47 mpg. If that is true, why did Ford just recently lower the EPA figure to 42? It admitted it screwed up the test, and rather that go the Huyndai route and pay lawyers a lot of money, it is sending all of us a nice rebate check. They admitted that the car doesn't get 47 in the real world with normal driving.So . . . experts, maybe you were wrong, because Ford admitted it was the car. You. were. wrong.

As you all celebrate your good fortune, thank the whiners who whined on the message board, who whined to Ford, and who whined to their dealer, because that caused Ford to redo the test, find their error, admit it to the EPA, and choose to send a rebate to everyone involved, even to those "experts' who thought there was nothing wrong with the car.

On behalf of all the FFH whiners, we accept your apology.

 

 

Except that Ford DID NOT ADMIT THE NUMBERS WERE WRONG...They only showed the EPA that the tests values did not match what the car can actually do, the TEST was flawed, not the testers. Ford did not make up the test, it is a rigidly structured and highly monitored test. Unfortunately, that test relys on formulas that were not in-line with real world testing. Ford discovered that error and reported it to the EPA, who took a long time to realize that Ford was correct and allowed the numbers to be changed. Remember, it was Fords real world testing that found this error (not the EPA's), and real world testing takes time and requires cars to actually be driven on the road, not a computer.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Griswald

[keybman]

It's been mentioned that one should be getting better mileage "if you live in the warmth". Is there a point where heat (a/c use) negatively affects mpg?

I live in "balmy" southern NV. where temps are already close to 100, and in the summer regularly top 110.

I expect that in early spring, late fall and winter, our temps would be considered living "in the warmth" as daytime highs range from the 70's to mid 80's.

(The lease on our '11 MKS expires in a few months and we look forward to getting an MKZ hybrid.)

 

My current commute is 20 miles one direction – is city (Houston) driving, is mostly flat, usually stop and go, and no opportunities for speeds over 50 MPH.

 

In the morning, temps currently are around 78-80 degrees. For the last month or so, my fuel economy for that trip has been 58-60 MPG consistently. 78 degrees outside seems to be a “sweet spot” for my FFH. However, in the afternoon, temps currently are in the 90-93 degree range and my fuel economy drops to 45-47 MPG for the same commute home. So, a 10-15 MPG fluctuation for a 10-15 degree temperature difference.

 

I cannot tell you how much is attributed to my A/C usage or to the heat’s effect on the battery, but I would imagine that it would be very hard to achieve 40+ MPG under 100-110 degree conditions. On the rare occasions where I have not garaged my car during the day, and it has been left in the sun to bake, the FFH has not performed well MPG-wise. High 30s is my recollection of that experience.

 

I do emphasize that every individual’s experience is unique. As others have oft mentioned here, it will depend on the driver’s behaviors, hybrid driving knowledge, the terrain, the commute, the conditions (rainy is also bad), the trade-offs (A/C vs MPG) and even the car itself (there are good ones and bad ones!).

 

My suggestion would be to test drive the MKZ hybrid before you decide, and give it “your real world” driving experience. While you indicated that you won’t make that decision for a few months, maybe now would be a good time to drive it in the 100-110 conditions during the day, and then try again when the temps are not nearly so hot. And use this forum to gain insight into maximizing your hybrid driving habits before your test drive.

 

Hope this helps!

[acdii]

There are no experts here(well maybe Waldo), but there are a lot of individuals with plenty of Hybrid experience who can exceed the so called False EPA claims. Is the Fusion capable of achieving 47 MPG, Yes it is, are the 47/47/47 numbers on the Fusion correct? No. The car can achieve them if you know how to drive it! Can you get in this car and drive it like any other car and get 47 MPG. NO. It's plain and simple, I would say 95% of those who are not able to achieve good MPG figures have either terrain that is not good for Hybrids, they are hotdogging it, or just not driving in a fashion attuned to a Hybrid. There are about 5% of owners who have a legit problem with the car, and these are the Job1 2013 Models that still have Issues, but Ford tells them the car is Fine, mainly because the computer tells them so. I had one of them and it is plain as daylight that there was a problem with the car and not my driving since I am easily able to achieve, and surpass the 47 EPA rating in the car I replaced it with, my driving style hasn't changed, the car I replaced it with was also a Hybrid that got EPA or better. I have learned some new techniques I passed along that were discovered with the car, but overall I still drive it the same way.

 

Doesn't make me an expert, but an educated owner who is just trying to pass that knowledge on to other owners. The forum has a community of owners who are more than willing to help others out, who want our help. It is offered, just have to take it!

[lolder]

I think Ford DID admit their numbers were wrong. Data they assumed was correct when they ran the first tests was wrong. How that can be I don't know. The tests can be fudged and I personally don't believe them when they said it was an honest mistake. They were so intent to beat the Toyota and other hybrid competitors they never looked twice at 47/47/47. It's really cost them in C-Max sales.

[dmdivris]

I'm happy with the mpg and I'm happy to get a check but there's no way i could have said the advertised mpg was not realistic. I'm getting 43 with moderate a/c with a very hilly commute. my spring a fall drives will yield low 50's and summer winter should get low 40's. Anything is better than the 14mpg in my truck

But i will say thanks to those that complained and made it happen. i'll cash that check with a smile.

[darrelld]

I think Ford DID admit their numbers were wrong. Data they assumed was correct when they ran the first tests was wrong. How that can be I don't know. The tests can be fudged and I personally don't believe them when they said it was an honest mistake. They were so intent to beat the Toyota and other hybrid competitors they never looked twice at 47/47/47. It's really cost them in C-Max sales.

 

I agree that Ford should have known better. I looked at the vehicle weight and said there is no way this can get 47 across the board as it would defy simple physics unless Ford figured out a way to increase gasoline engine combusion thermal efficiency to 50% or more. An off the cuff calculation on my part yeilded low 40s at best and I am pleased with that number.

 

I have been so pleased with my C-Max I am currently working a trade to swap my 2012 Passat TDI for a 2014 Fusion Hybrid TItanium and expect to take delivery sometime this week.

Edited June 20, 2014 by darrelld

[Waldo]

They admitted that the car doesn't get 47 in the real world with normal driving.So . . . experts, maybe you were wrong, because Ford admitted it was the car. You. were. wrong.

 

 

This is completely false. Ford has admitted that the Fusion cannot get 47mpg on the EPA test. That has nothing to do with real world driving. I regularly get 50+mpg on my 20 mile commute in the current weather. I got that both before and after Ford revised the numbers. If you don't get 47mpg in yours it's not because of the car, it's because of the way you drive and the conditions you drive in. That's not meant to be a slam, it's just reality. Some people will always get better than EPA and some people will always get worse, that's the nature of the EPA test. My commute happens to be perfectly matched to the hybrid's characteristics, which is why I bought it. If I had a different type of commute, I would have likely purchased something else.

[acdii]

 

This is completely false. Ford has admitted that the Fusion cannot get 47mpg on the EPA test. That has nothing to do with real world driving. I regularly get 50+mpg on my 20 mile commute in the current weather. I got that both before and after Ford revised the numbers. If you don't get 47mpg in yours it's not because of the car, it's because of the way you drive and the conditions you drive in. That's not meant to be a slam, it's just reality. Some people will always get better than EPA and some people will always get worse, that's the nature of the EPA test. My commute happens to be perfectly matched to the hybrid's characteristics, which is why I bought it. If I had a different type of commute, I would have likely purchased something else.

This is why I said, Except Waldo! :) He is the closest we have to an actual Expert.

[md13ffhguy]

Since buying this car, I've become a close adherent to posted speed limits. Almost every other 13/14 FFH I see is passing me, sometimes at +15-20 vs posted. I just hope these folks aren't complaining... If you have no intent on adopting gentler driving habits, then EcoBoost is probably a better choice.

[acdii]

Alright, I dont know where it was posted, someone asked how do I do it. Get 47+ on the rural Highway roads I travel. Hope this works, if not I will try something else.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=739584589417011

[hytibill]

I think that Ford had to bring down their EPA mileage for a reason. If you look at Fuelly, there are five Ford Fusion Hybrid Titaniums with 58,411 miles tracked, and they report 36.7 mpg. I get 37.3 with careful driving. It's just not possible for me to get 47 mpg no matter how carefully I drive. Your fuel efficiency is going to depend heavily, heavily, heavily on not only how you drive, but the climate where you drive in, the geography of your drives, and the length of your trips. If you are going to be mostly in stop and go traffic, you're not getting 47 mpg. If your trips are short jaunts less than 10 miles, you're not getting 47 mpg. If your trips involve going up and down bridges and elevations, you're not getting 47 mpg. If you live in NYC like I do, with freezing and endless winters and sweltering summers, you're not getting 47 mpg.

 

So to you lucky guys who drive 20 miles per trip on straight roads in great weather, I'm happy you're getting 50 mpg. But in anything less than perfect conditions, you're going to get high thirties. Ford has recognized a mistake and lowered the 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid reported EPA mileage. I think we can admit that 47 mpg is not a good number to expect when buying this car.

[md13ffhguy]

I think that Ford had to bring down their EPA mileage for a reason. If you look at Fuelly, there are five Ford Fusion Hybrid Titaniums with 58,411 miles tracked, and they report 36.7 mpg. I get 37.3 with careful driving. It's just not possible for me to get 47 mpg no matter how carefully I drive. Your fuel efficiency is going to depend heavily, heavily, heavily on not only how you drive, but the climate where you drive in, the geography of your drives, and the length of your trips. If you are going to be mostly in stop and go traffic, you're not getting 47 mpg. If your trips are short jaunts less than 10 miles, you're not getting 47 mpg. If your trips involve going up and down bridges and elevations, you're not getting 47 mpg. If you live in NYC like I do, with freezing and endless winters and sweltering summers, you're not getting 47 mpg.

 

So to you lucky guys who drive 20 miles per trip on straight roads in great weather, I'm happy you're getting 50 mpg. But in anything less than perfect conditions, you're going to get high thirties. Ford has recognized a mistake and lowered the 2014 Ford Fusion Hybrid reported EPA mileage. I think we can admit that 47 mpg is not a good number to expect when buying this car.

While I can agree with some of your points, and certainly I acknowledge that your mileage varies, I must respectfully disagree with your conclusion. The experiences of individual owners are not necessarily indicative of what CAN be achieved with this car. I don't drive on flat roads, and I'm often in stop and go traffic. On some lucky days, hitting traffic in certain places actually benefits me! My ~32 commute is least ideal on my way back home, as it's mostly uphill. Often, I can "only" achieve ~45 MPG, but I know I'll make up the next morning with a 60+ MPG return trip to work. I wouldn't really say I hyper-mile, but rather, I just drive gently. Mostly right lane, and I rarely exceed the speed limit. That's 180 degrees different than how I drove before buying this car, and I'm truly a more relaxed, comfortable, and happier driver this way. I often drive in less than perfect conditions, and I'd be totally pissed if all I got was high 30s. However, I do appreciate that your experiences are yours and mine are mine.

[corncobs]

While I can agree with some of your points, and certainly I acknowledge that your mileage varies, I must respectfully disagree with your conclusion. The experiences of individual owners are not necessarily indicative of what CAN be achieved with this car. I don't drive on flat roads, and I'm often in stop and go traffic. On some lucky days, hitting traffic in certain places actually benefits me! My ~32 commute is least ideal on my way back home, as it's mostly uphill. Often, I can "only" achieve ~45 MPG, but I know I'll make up the next morning with a 60+ MPG return trip to work. I wouldn't really say I hyper-mile, but rather, I just drive gently. Mostly right lane, and I rarely exceed the speed limit. That's 180 degrees different than how I drove before buying this car, and I'm truly a more relaxed, comfortable, and happier driver this way. I often drive in less than perfect conditions, and I'd be totally pissed if all I got was high 30s. However, I do appreciate that your experiences are yours and mine are mine.

I agree with md13ffhguy!

I'm in the same boat and have very similar results. Last 3 months 4000 miles avg. FE 46 MPG real data from the pump not the car (FFH reported about 48.5)

[Waldo]

I think that Ford had to bring down their EPA mileage for a reason.

 

 

Yes, the reason was they made a mistake! They can't just choose to change the number to whatever they want. The new number is still based on the same EPA test procedure that was used before, the same EPA test procedure that every one else uses. The only difference is they corrected some of the calculations that were done incorrectly. It in no way includes any of the data of what real customers are actually getting.

 

BTW my lifetime average is just about to click up to 47mpg. And that includes several months of cold Michigan winter, but I do admit most of my driving is in 20 mile trips on flat roads.

[acdii]

I drive hilly rural highways, plenty of tops and acceleration back to speed. I found the trick to this kind of driving and can achieve the 47 MPG rating. I didn't this morning, though I drive the same every day, just depends on traffic, too many morons pulling out in front of me making me slow down. I mean Come On can you NOT see my damned lights?

 

Going home If I get 44 I am lucky, the trip home hits heavy traffic with lots of stop lights, and no way to get the battery to a full charge until 2/3rds home. It is all in how you drive the car and where you drive it, but 47 was not too an unrealistic number, however the new numbers are dead on real world driving, much the same as the previous generation, it was 36/41/39 and 39 was exactly what I got.

[hytibill]

I am fairly certain that my car is not defective because I have gotten 50+ mpg on long trips. But my typical commute is about 14 miles each way, and it takes me about 10 minutes of stop and go traffic to get onto the highway (which is bad for mileage because the ICE runs at stop signs warming up the engine), and there's a bridge I have to go up and down, and there's stop and go traffic the whole way. And more often than not, if you leave a space in front of you in the highway, you're going to get cut off and you have to stomp on your brakes. It's very difficult to get 47 mpg in those conditions so the guys getting 47 mpg have relatively long commutes (20+ mpg) where they get directly onto the highway on level terrain.

 

If you do the math, at 15K miles a year and $4 a gallon, the jump from 27 mpg to 37 mpg saves you 150 gallons ($600) and the jump from 37 mpg to 47 mpg saves you 90 gallons ($360). Over five years, getting 47 mpg instead of 37 mpg will save you $1,800, which is quite a bit. So I have made my piece with getting 37 mpg but it's not like it's no money.