pull over safely

[aldenite]

On November 13, 2013 I was on my way to work. I was in EV mode when suddenly there was a loud 'ding, ding, ding' and a red 'pull over safely' message on the dashboard. Talk about an adrenaline moment while I frantically looked for a safe place to pull over. My husband came and I was able to restart it and have him follow me to the dealer. They got an EEC test code P0456 and replaced canister. All seemed well except for poor gas mileage for several months.

 

January 20,2014 I am again on my way to work in the dark when the 'ding, ding, ding' started. Another adrenaline rush. Another trip to the dealer. This time they kept it for a week and weren't able to find anything. Ford told them to reprogram the PCM snd give it back to me. I drove it home and had trouble getting it to drop into electric mode, even at a stop sign. When it DID drop into electric mode, it had no power and immediately the gas engine started again even if I had my foot off the gas. I drove it several more times with similar problems.

 

Finally I called Ford customer service and was given a case number. A regional customer service rep has called me several times. He keeps telling me that they can't recreate the problem and that I can't PROVE that it will quit again. He wants me to take it back again. I drive to work early in the morning on rural roads with NO SHOULDER and blowing/drifting snow. Pull over safely doesn't work well when there is no safe spot to stop. It is not safe to drive a car that dies randomly.

 

I want to know if it is an official Ford policy to repeatedly give unsafe cars back to customers because they are unable to diagnose the problem. Where I work we don't expect customers to diagnose their own problems. If technical support can't diagnose the problem it is escalated to development. We don't just abandon the customer. Does Ford think it is okay to deal with a SAFETY failure by dumping the unfixed car back on the customer???

Edited February 18, 2014 by aldenite

[Sleddog]

Kim is the Ford rep on the forum... Oh Kim... This looks like a hot one. Perhaps you would be kind enough to assist this member.

 

Welcome! I hope you get it solved.

[hybridbear]

This time they kept it for a week and weren't able to find anything. Ford told them to reprogram the PCM snd give it back to me. I drove it home and had trouble getting it to drop into electric mode, even at a stop sign. When it DID drop into electric mode, it had no power and immediately the gas engine started again even if I had my foot off the gas. I drove it several more times with similar problems.

What were the outside temps when this happened? Is your car kept outside or in a cold garage? When the HVB temp falls below 32F the car greatly limits how much power can be drawn from it. This basically precludes EV operation at cold temps except when not moving. It takes many miles to warm the battery up on those cold days. When we've had cold stretches with the temps consistently below 0 it is very hard to keep the HVB warm enough for normal operation. When the dealer had it for a week it likely spent almost that entire week being parked outside in the cold and not driven. This would have allowed the HVB temp to drop down to ambient temp (likely <15F in January in Illinois) and thus you will see limited EV mode. This strategy is designed to protect the battery.

 

What did the dealer say about the limited EV operation?

[acdii]

On November 13, 2013 I was on my way to work. I was in EV mode when suddenly there was a loud 'ding, ding, ding' and a red 'pull over safely' message on the dashboard. Talk about an adrenaline moment while I frantically looked for a safe place to pull over. My husband came and I was able to restart it and have him follow me to the dealer. They got an EEC test code P0456 and replaced canister. All seemed well except for poor gas mileage for several months.

 

January 20,2014 I am again on my way to work in the dark when the 'ding, ding, ding' started. Another adrenaline rush. Another trip to the dealer. This time they kept it for a week and weren't able to find anything. Ford told them to reprogram the PCM snd give it back to me. I drove it home and had trouble getting it to drop into electric mode, even at a stop sign. When it DID drop into electric mode, it had no power and immediately the gas engine started again even if I had my foot off the gas. I drove it several more times with similar problems.

 

Finally I called Ford customer service and was given a case number. A regional customer service rep has called me several times. He keeps telling me that they can't recreate the problem and that I can't PROVE that it will quit again. He wants me to take it back again. I drive to work early in the morning on rural roads with NO SHOULDER and blowing/drifting snow. Pull over safely doesn't work well when there is no safe spot to stop. It is not safe to drive a car that dies randomly.

 

I want to know if it is an official Ford policy to repeatedly give unsafe cars back to customers because they are unable to diagnose the problem. Where I work we don't expect customers to diagnose their own problems. If technical support can't diagnose the problem it is escalated to development. We don't just abandon the customer. Does Ford think it is okay to deal with a SAFETY failure by dumping the unfixed car back on the customer???

Looks like you live near me. Is your dealer Harvard or one of the others?

[aldenite]

My dealer is in McHenry. Dealer has been letting the regional CS rep handle the contact. All the regional guy says is that they can't find the problem and that I can't PROVE it will quit again. True enough but then again since they don't know why it quit in the first place they sure can't prove it won't.

 

As far as the temps, I've been driving it all winter in this cold and it never acted that oddly before. I drive the same route every day and the behavior was clearly odd. I drove it multiple times to be sure it wasn't a one time fluke before I called Ford. My car is garage kept and I warm it up before I leave for work.

 

I had been averaging 50mpg over the first year and a half of driving by maximizing the use of EV. Both fails have been in EV mode. I have a background in software testing and my guts tells me that that there is a defect. If it was a computer and I could test it in the safety of my home, I would happily do their job and figure out was going on. I am NOT willing to drive it in this weather and have it die on me again. I loved the car until now, but I don't consider it safe to drive. I DID notice that if you drive it like a gas car (keep it in gas mode as much as possible) it acts fine. I suspect that is what the dealer is doing.

Edited February 18, 2014 by aldenite

[FordService]

... Finally I called Ford customer service and was given a case number. A regional customer service rep has called me several times. He keeps telling me that they can't recreate the problem and that I can't PROVE that it will quit again. He wants me to take it back again. I drive to work early in the morning on rural roads with NO SHOULDER and blowing/drifting snow. Pull over safely doesn't work well when there is no safe spot to stop. It is not safe to drive a car that dies randomly. ...

 

Hi aldenite,

 

Let me take a look at your case and see what I can do to help. PM me your case number and/or VIN and I'll look into it.

 

Ashley

[acdii]

Did they do a baseline comparison against another known good working car? If not then they really didn't look at it to see if there is a problem. The trouble they have now is if a code isn't thrown, they cant touch the car. If the car still does not go into EV after driving for 10 miles, there is something wrong, even if no codes are being set. I can't speak for that dealer(I know who you are referring to), but at least my dealer will listen to a problem and that is where they will focus on it. I may be able to help with my dealer if you want, PM me if interested and I will see what I can do, they aren't very far from you. If you bring it in with it fully warmed up, and its not going into EV for very long with a full battery, then take him on a short trip to show exactly what your complaint is.

[corncobs]

I actually had this same problem when I drove thru a flooded intersection last year. As I was trying to go faster the computer was unable to start the ICE due to the water and it went into the same emergency program telling me to pull over. It was also while driving along in EV mode.

 

Maybe just maybe something similar happens. The computer tried to start the ICE but the HVB was too weak. Sounds impossible but you never know with this cold.

Edited February 18, 2014 by corncobs

[FordIVTteam]

Kim is the Ford rep on the forum... Oh Kim... This looks like a hot one. Perhaps you would be kind enough to assist this member.

 

Welcome! I hope you get it solved.

 

Thanks for the mention, Sleddog. It looks like Ashley already has it covered. :)

 

Kim

[aldenite]

I was doing some research on this problem and found the national highway traffic safety administration website. It appears that Ford DOES have a policy of returning unsafe vehicles to their owners without fixing the problem. Below are several examples, but there are a quite a few additional complaints.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues

SUMMARY:

WHILE DRIVING IN MODERATE AFTERNOON TRAFFIC, WITHOUT WARNING THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL BECAME UNRESPONSIVE. A WARNING CHIME SOUNDED AND A "STOP SAFELY NOW" MESSAGE APPEARED ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE INSTRUMENT CLUSTER; THE VEHICLE EFFECTIVELY STALLED. AFTER PULLING ONTO THE SHOULDER, THE VEHICLE WAS COMPLETELY TURNED OFF AND RESTARTED. THE TRIP CONTINUED WITHOUT INCIDENT. SINCE THEN THE VEHICLE HAS RANDOMLY STALLED, WITHOUT WARNING SIX ADDITIONAL TIMES IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS AT VARIOUS SPEEDS. THE VEHICLE DID NOT RESTART AFTER THE LAST STALL AND HAD TO BE TOWED IN FOR SERVICE. IT HAS BEEN IN FOR REPAIRS RELATED TO THIS ISSUE ON THREE OCCASIONS OVER THE COURSE OF 4 MONTHS FOR A TOTAL OF 29 DAYS. ON ONE OCCASION, WHILE IN FOR SERVICE, THE DEALER INFORMED THE OWNER THAT THE VEHICLE ALSO STALLED WHILE BEING ROAD TESTED AND HAD TO BE TOWED BACK. THE DEALER HAS UPDATED VARIOUS SOFTWARE MODULES AND REPLACED A GATEWAY MODULE, HIGH VOLTAGE CABLE AND BATTERY CONTROLLER. THE VEHICLE IS CURRENTLY LESS THAN 11 MONTHS OLD WITH 6850 MILES. THIS HAS BEEN A SERIOUS AND PERSISTENT SAFETY ISSUE. FORD HAS DECLINED A REQUESTED VEHICLE EXCHANGE. AS A RESULT, THIS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE CAR IS CURRENTLY BACK ON THE ROAD WITH AN OWNER THAT NO LONGER HAS ANY CONFIDENCE IN IT AND FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT RECOIL AT THE THOUGHT OF BEING DRIVEN IN IT.

 

 

SUMMARY:

PICKED UP THE CAR FROM THE DEALERSHIP ON MONDAY (9/25/12) AFTER THEY FOUND SOMETHING WRONG AND WAS DRIVING ON STATE ROUTE 228 AT 55 MILE PER HOUR. WARNING CHIME SOUNDED, PULL OVER SAFELY WARNING CAME ON, ENGINE SHUT OFF, BRAKES AND ACCELERATOR DISENGAGED, AND ALL DASHBOARD LIGHTS ILLUMINATED. PUT HAZARDS ON FOR CARS BEHIND ME AND PULLED OVER QUICKLY AVOIDING A SIGN ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD. AFTER 10-15 MINS, I WAS ABLE TO RESTART THE CAR BY LETTING IT RESET. AFTER GETTING GREEN CAR INDICATOR, I WENT TO TURN AROUND TO GO BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP. THE CAR JUMPED FORWARD AND STALLED IN THE INTERSECTION OF STATE ROUTE 228 AND BUCK HILL RD. I WAS ABLE TO HAVE IT START, JUMP, AND STALL TWO TIMES (ENOUGH TO GET ME OUT OF THE INTERSECTION). UPON ARRIVING THE DEALERSHIP, THEY COULD NOT FIND ANY CODES THAT WERE DISRUPTED. THE SERVICE MANAGER CONTACTED FORD TECH LINE AND DROVE IT HOME FOR A FEW DAYS TO TRY TO ACTIVATE PROBLEM. COULD NOT ACTIVATE, CAR RETURNED WITH INSTRUCTIONS TO HAVE IT TOWED HERE AND DO NOT RESTART IT WHEN IT BREAKS DOWN.

[aldenite]

Update: I got a call from the Ford regional CS rep. He told me that there was 'no concern' with the car and I should pick it up. Apparently Ford doesn't consider randomly dying while driving down the road to be a 'concern'. I was told to call roadside assistance the next time it leaves me stranded. So much for their 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

[hybridbear]

Update: I got a call from the Ford regional CS rep. He told me that there was 'no concern' with the car and I should pick it up. Apparently Ford doesn't consider randomly dying while driving down the road to be a 'concern'. I was told to call roadside assistance the next time it leaves me stranded. So much for their 3 year bumper to bumper warranty.

Did you PM Ashley to let her help?

[aldenite]

Yes. I was told that I was already dealing with a regional customer service rep and there is nothing she can do. The regional rep was quite firm that since I can't reproduce the problem at will, there is 'no concern' (he kept repeating 'no concern' throughout the conversation). I clarified that there IS a concern, Ford just couldn't diagnose the cause.

 

I hate the thought of driving a car that randomly dies on me, especially considering I take my 85 year old father out for shopping and lunch on Sundays. I certainly don't trust the car anymore.

 

The sad thing is that I absolutely LOVED the car. I was averaging 50mpg and raved about it to everyone.

[hybridbear]

Yes. I was told that I was already dealing with a regional customer service rep and there is nothing she can do. The regional rep was quite firm that since I can't reproduce the problem at will, there is 'no concern' (he kept repeating 'no concern' throughout the conversation). I clarified that there IS a concern, Ford just couldn't diagnose the cause.

 

I hate the thought of driving a car that randomly dies on me, especially considering I take my 85 year old father out for shopping and lunch on Sundays. I certainly don't trust the car anymore.

 

The sad thing is that I absolutely LOVED the car. I was averaging 50mpg and raved about it to everyone.

Make sure you're documenting everything for a Lemon Law claim then. You can also follow the instructions in your Owner's Manual for getting help from the BBB AutoLine to resolve this issue with Ford. A number of others have had success with this. The Owner's Manual lays out a step-by-step process for dealing with such issues and following it should yield the best results. We wish you the best.

[jeff_h]

The sad thing is that I absolutely LOVED the car. I was averaging 50mpg and raved about it to everyone.

 

If you were able to average 50mpg in a 2012 FFH (my average in the 2010 FFH was 39.8mpg) then you definitely have the knack of knowing how to get the most out of it. If you got a 2014 or 2015 model you may average 55mpg.

[acdii]

After this morning I can clearly understand your fear. There would be nothing worse than having the car die on one of these country roads and getting stuck on the road, especially in total white out and getting hit. First hand experience this morning, thankfully my wife and I are OK, but some of the other drivers are not. Still cant get the smell of airbags out of my nose.

[aldenite]

I had really hoped it wouldn't come to that, but it appears that Ford's idea of a warranty is to simply tell the customer there is "no concern" if they can't figure out the problem. "Concern" seems to be code for being unable to troubleshoot the problem.

 

I asked a customer service rep if it was Ford's policy to put a customer back into an unsafe car. Her answer was "There is no policy to put customers in "unsafe" vehicles, Mary Lou. However, if there's no concern found, there's not much the dealership can but to return your vehicle to you."

 

Effectively, this means that no matter how many times the vehicles dies while I am driving it, if they are unable to troubleshoot the problem they will say there is "no concern" and return it to me.

 

Check out the national highway safety administration web site I referenced previously. There are plenty of other customers who have experienced this attitude.They even returned a car with this problem to the owner unfixed after it died on the dealer and had to be towed. I don't know how much more you could do to prove that a problem exists.

[corncobs]

After this morning I can clearly understand your fear. There would be nothing worse than having the car die on one of these country roads and getting stuck on the road, especially in total white out and getting hit. First hand experience this morning, thankfully my wife and I are OK, but some of the other drivers are not. Still cant get the smell of airbags out of my nose.

That doesn't sound good at all

[acdii]

That doesn't sound good at all

Thankfully it wasnt the Fusion, or it may have been serious for us too.

[aldenite]

Yes, it is brutal out there. Alden road consistently blows and drifts over causing whiteout conditions. Having the car die in the wrong spot could be fatal. Sorry to hear you had a problem, but I am glad you are okay.

[GrySql]

I realize this is a little late but I just posted this in another Thread and it might apply to you.

 

My suggestion is that if your car stalls again, do not turn the key to the off position.

The other thought is to make sure the car and passengers are not in a dangerous location before you try this.

 

With the key still on, send a Vehicle Health Report directly from your car to Ford Support.

You will need to have registered your car at http://support.ford.com// and have a cell phone setup for the Ford Sync system to call out.

See the Fusion's Owner's Manual on page 326 for more info on how to send the VHR.

(Note: the OM is somewhat outdated, SYNCMyRide.com is now the Ford support link I posted above.)

 

By sending a VHR while the key is still on any Codes will be captured at the Ford Support website and available to you and the Dealer for 30 days.

You can log-on to the Ford website and view the VHR, hopefully any Check Engine Light codes are present.

I usually print out the VHR (if there are codes) so I have it to show the Dealer.

 

Anytime a dash light illuminates with an Alert/Warning or the car will not run properly is a great time to attempt to send a VHR.

Be in a safe place when you do so.

[corncobs]

 

If you were able to average 50mpg in a 2012 FFH (my average in the 2010 FFH was 39.8mpg) then you definitely have the knack of knowing how to get the most out of it. If you got a 2014 or 2015 model you may average 55mpg.

Are we talking about a MY2012 FFH (old) or the new MY2013 FFH (new). In case of a 2012 that would be an awesome avg.

[aldenite]

I have a 2012. The 'secret' is to maximize the amount of time in EV mode. I am very aware of how much I can get out of the car in electric mode. That is why I am sure that it was not acting right when I got it back the last time.

[acdii]

What is your battery level on that car? I wonder if they did a load test on the pack. The 12 is no different than the 10 I had, and even in really cold temps it worked in EV if I turned off the heat.

[aldenite]

I haven't heard from the dealer yet, but I plan to ask some questions when he calls. I wondered about the battery pack because it doesn't seem like it has any power even though the battery indicator shows it as charged.