pull over safely

[aldenite]

I picked up my car yesterday. Had a long talk with the service manager. He does seem to understand hybrids. There just aren't enough clues for him to diagnose it without a code. I really do 'get' that. unfortunately it doesn't help make me feel good about driving the car, especially in this bitter cold weather with blowing/drifting snow . I bought a new car for reliability and this just does not fit the bill. Unfortunately it would cost me to about 12,000 to trade for a comparable 2014, so I seem to be stuck.

 

I've started a log of normal behavior, mileage and temps so I will have concrete comparison data when it messes up again. Maybe I will come up with a pattern.

[lolder]

I have a 2012. The 'secret' is to maximize the amount of time in EV mode. I am very aware of how much I can get out of the car in electric mode. That is why I am sure that it was not acting right when I got it back the last time.

Actually, the secret is to MINIMIZE the time spent in EV. Do not encourage EV during most acceleration or driving over 40 mph. EV is less efficient than the ICE then. Only coax EV when the HVB SOC is over 1/2 or you're nearing home.

[aldenite]

My car only runs in EV up to 47mph. EV uses zero gas, so the more time you spend in EV mode the less gas you use. For me, that means that does mean lower than highway speeds. It is more efficient to charge the battery at higher speeds. Using the gas engine at lower speeds results in lower gas mileage. In the end it is a balance. Use whatever is most efficient.

[acdii]

Considering you say you get 50 MPG in the 12, you are doing it right. :) What Lolder is saying is most likely what you are actually doing too. Its what I did in the 10 myself. I used a lot of EV In Crystal Lake, where I could regain most energy used by regen braking and very little ICE to recharge. For the most part, accelerating in EV only is wasteful, use the ICE for that, then coast in EV, and it sounds like that is what you are doing.

[aldenite]

Yes, I use the ICE to accelerate. Even I am not patient enough to try to try to get to speed from a stop in EV mode. Once I am at speed, I alternate between EV and ICE modes. I use EV as much as possible, depending on terrain, traffic, weather conditions, etc.

[B25Nut]

Actually, the secret is to MINIMIZE the time spent in EV. Do not encourage EV during most acceleration or driving over 40 mph. EV is less efficient than the ICE then. Only coax EV when the HVB SOC is over 1/2 or you're nearing home.

 

This may apply to the 2012 and earlier FFHs, but I have to disagree with the Professor when it comes to the 2013-14. I get my maximum mileage at highway speeds only when I have a higher percentage of EV time. Before the PCM update, the ICE would never shut off at my normal highway speed. I think this is a major factor for my increased MPGs, especially when going downhill.

[acdii]

 

This may apply to the 2012 and earlier FFHs, but I have to disagree with the Professor when it comes to the 2013-14. I get my maximum mileage at highway speeds only when I have a higher percentage of EV time. Before the PCM update, the ICE would never shut off at my normal highway speed. I think this is a major factor for my increased MPGs, especially when going downhill.

It does, since it is how I drove the ppp TCH and 2010, it was a new learning curve in the new Fusion, but not a very long one, a few trips to get the hang of it is all it takes to transition to the way it works. The more EV you get out of the 13+ FFH the better your overall MPG is. Battery management is key to the 13+. In the prior years your pack is rarely over 50%(according to dash), and the EV is used mostly for cruising and low speed coasting. Above 45 MPH though there was no EV, all ICE. As previously pointed out, you never use EV to accelerate the 2010-12, but the 13+ EV acceleration is possible depending on EV+ and SOC. The OP knows how to drive one if she can get 50 MPG in one. :)

[aldenite]

My 2012 can be pretty efficient at higher speeds. Assuming level ground, I can get 50mph with the ICE at 50mph. Efficiency goes down at lower speeds..40mpg at 40mph...30mpg at 30mph. All assuming level ground and a very light touch on the gas pedal. Charging the battery is much more efficient at higher speeds. It is something of a balancing act. I use the ICE to get up to speed and EV to maintain it.

[lolder]

The efficiency balancing point between EV and ICE is clearly different from 2010-12 to 2013 +. The LiIon HVB is more powerful, less lossy and can handle more acceleration. If the 2.0 L ICE can be run with more load in the low brake specific fuel consumption ( BSFC ) zone, the equation of when EV use is desireable changes. All things considered, if you look at the fuel report sites, the Gen 2 FFH's seem to get about 4 mpg better than Gen 1's. That's pretty much attributable to the lower weight and air drag Cd. That's the main factor in the Prius-FFH mpg difference also. The Ford's have more power to weight than the Prii so you can lead-foot it more and make the difference greater. They're all good designs with slightly different aims.

Here's a fuel map of the 2 nd and 3 rd Gen Prii on the same chart which is a little confusuing.

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/File:Toyota_2zrfxe_1.8l_prius_bsfc1.jpg

All the Atkinson cycle ICE's try to run in those low BSFC contours around 220-230 g/Kwh. Look how the bigger Gen 3 Prius, the 2ZX-FXE, has a huge 230 g/Kwh zone and a 220 g/Kwh zone that's bigger than the 1NZ-FXE Gen 2 230 g/kwh one. Now that's a 4-5% improvement in mileage which is huge. Ford fuel maps should have the similar shapes but I haven't seen one.

Edited March 4, 2014 by lolder

[jsolan]

Yesterday I receive the "Pull Over Safely" message immediately after starting my vehicle. It happened twice.

The first time, I shut the vehicle off and restarted it and everything was fine

The second time I had to restart the car 4 times in order to get the message to go away.

I have not restarted the car since then. If it happens again I will send a VHR to see if that tells me anything.

 

Anyway, it seems that every other person to receive this message got it while driving. Has anyone got it immediately after starting the car like I have? Could it be battery related? I'm driving a 2013 on the original 12v battery. Have others with 2013's replaced their batteries yet?

[Texasota]

Could it be battery related? I'm driving a 2013 on the original 12v battery. Have others with 2013's replaced their batteries yet?

Yes, many 2013 owners have had there batteries replaced under warranty. I think there are multiple threads where this is discussed.

[gkinla]

Yesterday I receive the "Pull Over Safely" message immediately after starting my vehicle. It happened twice.

The first time, I shut the vehicle off and restarted it and everything was fine

The second time I had to restart the car 4 times in order to get the message to go away.

I have not restarted the car since then. If it happens again I will send a VHR to see if that tells me anything.

 

Anyway, it seems that every other person to receive this message got it while driving. Has anyone got it immediately after starting the car like I have? Could it be battery related? I'm driving a 2013 on the original 12v battery. Have others with 2013's replaced their batteries yet?

 

I'm on my 4th 12V battery. 3 years old last December, 30,000 miles. But this is only after getting the BS message (battery saving message) on MFT. All were replaced under warranty. I've never had the engine light on, or the Pull Over Safely message.

[Hybrider]

My plan is to replace my battery every two years like clockwork, at my own expense. I do not want to take a chance on experiencing any of the multitude of bad issues which can happen in an FFH when the battery is not at full capacity.

 

The heat here in the desert won't allow normal 12V batteries to last more than about 2-3 years anyways.

[jsolan]

Yes, many 2013 owners have had there batteries replaced under warranty. I think there are multiple threads where this is discussed.

 

Yes sorry. I meant to ask those 2013 who weren't having the BS Message issues. I haven't had any of those issues, just this pull over safely one. I know the batteries are weak from all of those threads, so I was curious if others who haven't had specific battery problems have had to replace their batteries within 3 years. In my previous cars, I've been able to get 4-5 years out of a battery.

 

I was just in for the 50k mile oil change last month and they said the battery tested good, but based on some other peoples experiences, I'm not sure I should trust that.

 

I did not receive the message for any the half dozen or so trips I took yesterday, so I guess I'll just keep monitoring it for a while before doing anything.

[lolder]

It's most likely the 12 vdc battery. Take it to the dealer. If you can change the battery yourself, that might be a quicker, simpler first step. Checking the battery does not insure that you wont have this problem. It's a "flukey" system.

[hybridbear]

I was just in for the 50k mile oil change last month and they said the battery tested good, but based on some other peoples experiences, I'm not sure I should trust that.

What kind of test did they do? I really question how thorough the inspection is when you're getting an oil change. I had one experience where I purposely brought the car to the dealer with the windshield washer fluid reservoir basically empty. One of the items on their checklist is to top off washer fluid. When I got the car back I checked to see if they had added washer fluid. The paperwork showed that item was checked off. However, they had not added washer fluid. I got out of the car & mentioned it to the SA. They went back & added washer fluid for me. This experience makes me question everything on those checklists.

[jsolan]

It was just part of their checklist for "The Works" oil change package. You're right it probably wasn't a very thorough test.

 

I have not had any issues since that one day, so I'm content to ignore the issue for the time being.

[Kam]

On 2/17/2014 at 4:53 PM, Sleddog said:

Kim is the Ford rep on the forum... Oh Kim... This looks like a hot one. Perhaps you would be kind enough to assist this member.

 

Welcome! I hope you get it solved.

This has also been my problem. I purchased my vehicle in “perfect condition” only 75,000 miles in September of 2021. I instantly had a check engine light that wouldn’t go away even after no issues being found and censors being reset. 
I’ve read so much about this same issue in the Ford fusions 10-13 and nobody want to take accountability. Now I’m stuck with an unsafe car that tells me to “stop pull over” at UNSAFE times. Why isn’t this being recalled or taken up to management.