Stoplight magnetic sensing loops and 100% Braking Score

[GrySql]

How do you get a 100% braking score when all the cross traffic has magnetic sensing loops??

 

I'm putzing along at 50 mph in a 55 mph speed limit road watching my left display, up ahead a cross traffic car rolls up to the red stoplight, having just past over the MSL's in the street.

The MSL's sense the cross traffic car, then proceed to turn the stoplight ahead of me to yellow, then red. I have to stop, the other car has a green light and he can proceed.

Got the scenario?

 

I've been watching this for some time now regarding my ability to stop when this happens and maintain a 100% braking score.

In most cases it can't be done.

The MSL's in the cross traffic lane have no idea how far away an inbound car might be, so are guided by a simple 'time to stop distance /speed limit' algorithm.

They are not programmed to help a FFH achieve a 100% braking score.

What usually happens is I apply a gentle brake pressure, then steadily push harder until the FFH comes to a complete stop.

I have just achieved a 64% Brake Score and there was absolutely nothing I could have done to make that stop into a perfect FFH stop.

 

This scenario is quite common in my area and happens frequently. The only way I could have gotten a 100% Braking Score in the above hypothetical scenario was to be traveling at about <15 mph under the speed limit. In some cases I can see that cross traffic car at the stoplight ahead and begin to slow my car immediately by lifting my foot and start a soft brake pedal/Regen action and stop, maybe I get close to my 100% goal, maybe not.

 

This frustrates me when I hear of all the 'Oh, I only have a 98% lifetime Brake Score'.

Yeah, oh really? Try that around this neck of the woods....

:soapbox:

Edited July 31, 2015 by GrySql

[SD Diver]

Curious - can dropping into L or using the hill assist button help? Doesn't L give a more aggressive regen?

[GrySql]

Curious - can dropping into L or using the hill assist button help? Doesn't L give a more aggressive regen?

The trouble is that only a thoroughly proficient FFH driver will think of all the tactics to slow the car in the minimum distance as quick as that.

I probably am not as efficient a FFH driver as some, but the fact that I am aware of this phenomenon and can't seem to do better is galling.

Edited July 31, 2015 by GrySql

[gkinla]

How do you get a 100% braking score when all the cross traffic has magnetic sensing loops??

 

I'm putzing along at 50 mph in a 55 mph speed limit road watching my left display, up ahead a cross traffic car rolls up to the red stoplight, having just past over the MSL's in the street.

The MSL's sense the cross traffic car, then proceed to turn the stoplight ahead of me to yellow, then red. I have to stop, the other car has a green light and he can proceed.

Got the scenario?

 

I've been watching this for some time now regarding my ability to stop when this happens and maintain a 100% braking score.

In most cases it can't be done.

The MSL's in the cross traffic lane have no idea how far away an inbound car might be, so are guided by a simple 'time to stop distance /speed limit' algorithm.

They are not programmed to help a FFH achieve a 100% braking score.

What usually happens is I apply a gentle brake pressure, then steadily push harder until the FFH comes to a complete stop.

I have just achieved a 64% Brake Score and there was absolutely nothing I could have done to make that stop into a perfect FFH stop.

 

This scenario is quite common in my area and happens frequently. The only way I could have gotten a 100% Braking Score in the above hypothetical scenario was to be traveling at about <15 mph under the speed limit. In some cases I can see that car ahead and begin to slow the car immediately by lifting my foot and start a soft brake pedal/Regen action and stop, maybe I get close to my 100% goal, maybe not.

 

This frustrates me when I hear of all the 'Oh, I only have a 98% lifetime Brake Score'.

Yeah, oh really? Try that around this neck of the woods....

:soapbox:

 

 

 

My scenario exactly. Frustrating isn't it. The FFH drivers that get 100% braking must have planned stops and are not driving in the city like we do.

Edited July 31, 2015 by GrySql

[hybridbear]

Do you get any warning when the lights are about to change? Most lights around Minneapolis always go to "walk" for pedestrians when the light is green. When a car pulls over the MSL on a side street the "don't walk" light starts flashing to warn pedestrians that the light is going to change. This also warns alert drivers so that they can get a 100% brake score in their hybrid ;)

 

More and more now we see the lights going one step further and showing a count-down timer with the don't walk light. Minneapolis is slowly changing out every traffic light in the city to include the count-down don't walk lights. This makes it even better.

 

On the main road near where we live in a suburb the lights don't turn to "walk" unless a pedestrian pushes the walk button. The speed limit is also higher (40 MPH) and the lights are very close together. If you're less than a block away when a light turns red you can't get a 100% brake score. Fortunately this road doesn't turn the lights red immediately when a car pulls over the MSL on a cross street unless it's after 10 pm or before 7 am (9 am on weekends). You also have to be very careful with these lights because the cops will pull ppl over for going through the intersection on yellow. I'm talking about ppl that clear the intersection on yellow and get pulled over, it's ridiculous. So when I see someone pull up I start backing off from a couple blocks away if possible anticipating that the light will turn red on me.

 

Grade Assist will not affect your braking on level ground. Grade Assist has no impact on your coasting regen on level ground. It's purpose is to increase regen so that the car will not increase speed.

 

The suggestion of SD Diver to shift into L is something I have tried when I get caught short by these lights on this road. I don't know if it helps or not, but it might be worth trying. When I am driving at the time of day where the lights will change quickly and unexpectedly I try to keep my right hand on the shift lever so I'm ready to drop it into L if needed.

 

I find it incredibly frustrating. It's funny though, if the car didn't track the brake score I wouldn't find it so upsetting to get caught short by a light. I find that when I drive my wife's car it doesn't bother me if I have to hit the brakes hard because the car doesn't tell me that I got less than a 100% brake score...

 

If the brake score becomes too frustrating you can turn it off. Then it won't pop up every time you stop but it will still show at the end of the trip on the Trip Summary and on the Lifetime Summary.

[acdii]

I have this same problem too, the thing is, I know these lights will change, but its hard to prepare for it with enough distance to stop if Bubba is riding your butt, which is like 90% of the time, so I usually wind up with an 80% score. There are at least 4 lights like this that I go through every day, both ways, and I try to pace them as best as I can. A couple I can see if there are cars at the intersection and let off the gas, and 9 out of 10 times, the light will change and I have enough distance to slow and stop with a 100, but other times it stays green and turns just as I get too close to get a good score, yet far enough away that it would be red going across. Those are the ones I hate the most.

 

 

They are just not timed long enough for Hybrids. Then again, I think the Fusion/MKZ is the only hybrid that relies on regen braking as part of its cycles since it uses EV at such a high speed, where all the others dont use EV above 40, 45 MPH.

 

These are of course rural highways posted at 55 MpH.

[SteveB_TX]

At least y'all don't live in a whopping 3, that's T H R E E, stoplight town. :dance:

[acdii]

My town doesnt even have a stop sign! LOL

[GrySql]

I find it incredibly frustrating. It's funny though, if the car didn't track the brake score I wouldn't find it so upsetting to get caught short by a light. I find that when I drive my wife's car it doesn't bother me if I have to hit the brakes hard because the car doesn't tell me that I got less than a 100% brake score...

Before this FFH, there was no such thing as a brake score per stop in my life. With my other vehicles I tried for a zero brake score, meaning that I didn't hit anything or anybody.

This car has brought a paradigm shift in my thoughts about driving.

The complexity of this car's monitoring system is amazing, it provides an information overload for most buyers (like my lovely spouse).

I sometimes think this car is more suited to younger people who grew up with video games or those of us that are computer literate.

 

Frankly, I imagine that many potential buyers are baffled by the need to consciously drive this car correctly if you want the EPA mileage numbers.

 

Toyota leaves a lot of this FFH info out, most buyers just drive them. Ford seems to be sensing that with the Average Mileage info being deleted in the '14's.

[hybridbear]

The complexity of this car's monitoring system is amazing, it provides an information overload for most buyers (like my lovely spouse).

I sometimes think this car is more suited to younger people who grew up with video games or those of us that are computer literate.

 

Toyota leaves a lot of this FFH info out, most buyers just drive them. Ford seems to be sensing that with the Average Mileage info being deleted in the '14's.

It is a lot of data. I like data so I really enjoy it. I bought a ScanGauge so that I could get even more data about the car. I also agree with your thoughts on Ford's possible reasoning to remove the Lifetime Summary information. However, I don't agree with their execution. Instead of removing the option they could just set it up to default as being "off" so that buyers would have to turn it on if interested. I think they're removal of this data makes it look like they're trying to hide something.

[GrySql]

It is a lot of data. I like data so I really enjoy it. I bought a ScanGauge so that I could get even more data about the car. I also agree with your thoughts on Ford's possible reasoning to remove the Lifetime Summary information. However, I don't agree with their execution. Instead of removing the option they could just set it up to default as being "off" so that buyers would have to turn it on if interested. I think they're removal of this data makes it look like they're trying to hide something.

After all the EPA mpg's issues that Ford has created, having your car tell you it is NOT getting the promised mpg's is bad business.

It is a nice feature and I agree it ought to be off by default, to totally remove it is blatantly admitting that it has created problems for their marketing.

In this case, engineering is subservient to marketing.

 

I suspect that soon the two dash displays will just show the basics and their legal and marketing department will be happy.

I wonder how long the Engineering Test Mode will be available to the consumer.

 

This entire Brake Score post is really aimed at those that follow such things, I'll bet most FFH owners don't.

[corncobs]

 

This entire Brake Score post is really aimed at those that follow such things, I'll bet most FFH owners don't.

Those are probably also likely to complain at lot more than those that do care and watch the number.

Yesterday I had a few lights change on short notice and I think I only managed 83 % braking score. It's pretty hard to get back to 90+% if you had 2 or 3 scores between 50 & 60 % on a 20 mile trip.

[dkegel]

Same problem with rush hour traffic on the highways here in the Chicago burbs. My wife's braking score is horrible when she gets home from work. Nothing much you can do about it.

 

Dave

[Riggo]

Before this FFH, there was no such thing as a brake score per stop in my life. With my other vehicles I tried for a zero brake score, meaning that I didn't hit anything or anybody.

This car has brought a paradigm shift in my thoughts about driving.

The complexity of this car's monitoring system is amazing, it provides an information overload for most buyers (like my lovely spouse).

I sometimes think this car is more suited to younger people who grew up with video games or those of us that are computer literate.

 

Frankly, I imagine that many potential buyers are baffled by the need to consciously drive this car correctly if you want the EPA mileage numbers.

 

Toyota leaves a lot of this FFH info out, most buyers just drive them. Ford seems to be sensing that with the Average Mileage info being deleted in the '14's.

The average mileage info is not available on the 14?'s?

[murphy]

The average mileage info is not available on the 14?'s?

No. That screen doesn't exist on a '14.

[acdii]

My trip home last night sucked, gas. People were driving like idiots, slamming on the brakes, then flooring it, only to slam on the brakes again, made it a PITA to maintain a good brake score and manage a decent EV with all the jokers cutting in and out. Finally I just said screw it, set the cruise to 63 and let the car take me home. I think I managed a lousy 41. I say lousy because I can usually get 46, but 5 MPG at this end tis nuttin so not worried about it. I managed a decent 44+ this morning in 35* temps, and that had me :banana piano:

[dkegel]

Riggo, on 17 Oct 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

The average mileage info is not available on the 14?'s?

No. That screen doesn't exist on a '14.

 

To be specific, the Lifetime average no longer exists. There are still three other averages to choose from, Trip 1, Trip 2, and the displayed average.

 

Dave

[keithsm2]

back to the brake score..... it seems to me if i brake harder at the beginning of the brake cycle and then being able to ease off of the brake as i come to a stop can make for better scores..( in a hard brake event ).. of course a nice steady brake pressure is most likely best...but not always attainable.

 

anyone else?

[corncobs]

Mine doesn't seem to like a hard first "hit". Even if I have enough room to slow down for a perfect brake score it doesn't like to be "woken up" quickly. It's almost like touch the brake pedal very light to wake up the system and then you brake with more force so the brake score is perfect.

[GrySql]

Mine doesn't seem to like a hard first "hit".

Mine either, but when you absolutely have to stop, what else is there to do.

 

Acdii mentioned the lack of brake dust in another post, my wheels are always clean too - the Regen really shows it's working, even on hard stops.

[B25Nut]

Mine doesn't seem to like a hard first "hit". Even if I have enough room to slow down for a perfect brake score it doesn't like to be "woken up" quickly. It's almost like touch the brake pedal very light to wake up the system and then you brake with more force so the brake score is perfect.

 

This is what I experience also. I'm proud of having a 96% lifetime score, but I know I'll never do better than that. Getting an 89%+ score on a freeway offramp with a downslope is near impossible unless you slow to way below 60 mph before pulling off the freeway, which I will never do. One of my goals in driving is to never force a driver behind me to apply their brake so that I can get slightly better mileage or a higher brake score. I would like to see those drivers that are seeing lower MPGs report their brake scores, since it is an important part of getting better mileage. With so many factors beyond a driver's control, however, nobody with brake scores in the lower to mid 90s should feel bad about it not being higher. I have OCD, which I think is a requirement to get 95%+ scores.

Does a brake score record to the FFH's system when you don't come to a complete stop, like slowing down suddenly on a highway? If it does, I would think that those who use ACC would get lower average brake scores since the system only detects what the car immediately in front of you is doing. If you're not paying attention to what the cars three or more spaces in front of you are doing, a driver usually spends more time braking when they should have been coasting.

[hybridbear]

Mine doesn't seem to like a hard first "hit". Even if I have enough room to slow down for a perfect brake score it doesn't like to be "woken up" quickly. It's almost like touch the brake pedal very light to wake up the system and then you brake with more force so the brake score is perfect.

Mine either, but when you absolutely have to stop, what else is there to do.

 

Acdii mentioned the lack of brake dust in another post, my wheels are always clean too - the Regen really shows it's working, even on hard stops.

I concur. Even when you have to brake quickly, you have to gently start your pressure to still get 100%. I'm surprised at some lights where I expect to get less than 100% but still end up with 100. And then some stops where I expect to get 100% because I had lots of time and I end up with 99%. I think a lot of that has to do with how hard you apply the initial pressure on the pedal.

 

This is what I experience also. I'm proud of having a 96% lifetime score, but I know I'll never do better than that. Getting an 89%+ score on a freeway offramp with a downslope is near impossible unless you slow to way below 60 mph before pulling off the freeway, which I will never do. One of my goals in driving is to never force a driver behind me to apply their brake so that I can get slightly better mileage or a higher brake score. I would like to see those drivers that are seeing lower MPGs report their brake scores, since it is an important part of getting better mileage. With so many factors beyond a driver's control, however, nobody with brake scores in the lower to mid 90s should feel bad about it not being higher. I have OCD, which I think is a requirement to get 95%+ scores.

Does a brake score record to the FFH's system when you don't come to a complete stop, like slowing down suddenly on a highway? If it does, I would think that those who use ACC would get lower average brake scores since the system only detects what the car immediately in front of you is doing. If you're not paying attention to what the cars three or more spaces in front of you are doing, a driver usually spends more time braking when they should have been coasting.

Hmmm interesting comments about freeway exits. I guess I've always slowed down slightly before exiting even before the FFH because of the fact that most freeway exits have curves and if you don't start braking before you get to the top of the ramp you'll have to really slam on the brakes once you get on the ramp. It's good to have the goal not to inconvenience other drivers. That approach kind of conflicts with the "drive smarter, not faster" approach though. If you "drive smarter" then you will be slowing down earlier and not racing from red light to red light. This will cause other drivers who don't "drive smarter" but instead drive "faster" to have to brake. The "drive smarter, not faster" approach is all about fuel economy. I guess I justify that by knowing that I'm helping the other drivers save gas even if they don't know it and I'm not stopping them from getting anywhere since the next light is red anyway. I also, though, try to stay out of the way of other drivers by being aware of my surroundings and staying out of the way as much as possible.

 

Anytime you step on the brake pedal it is counted in your brake score and reflected by the coach bar. I imagine that the ACC does brake harder than is needed to get a 100% brake score because it is a reactive system, not proactive like a defensive driver would be.

 

I'm proud of our 98% Lifetime Brake score since the PCM update because that has included a lot of my wife driving the FFH. Now that we have two cars again and she's driving her own car instead of the FFH I'm sure I'll be able to get it back up to 99% Lifetime as that's what we had over the 16,000 miles pre-PCM update.

[GrySql]

I'm proud of our 98% Lifetime Brake score since the PCM update because that has included a lot of my wife driving the FFH. Now that we have two cars again and she's driving her own car instead of the FFH I'm sure I'll be able to get it back up to 99% Lifetime as that's what we had over the 16,000 miles pre-PCM update.

Hehe... I wasn't picking you out when I started this post, I was mainly commenting on our 'gotcha' side street MSL's.

I'm proud of anyone who can achieve the impossible!! :)

My Lifetime Braking Score is 95%, possibly because of all the bad driver training I've had as I got to be old enough to be your grandpa, besides, my reflexes are shot.

[corncobs]

Hehe... I wasn't picking you out when I started this post, I was mainly commenting on our 'gotcha' side street MSL's.

I'm proud of anyone who can achieve the impossible!! :)

My Lifetime Braking Score is 95%, possibly because of all the bad driver training I've had as I got to be old enough to be your grandpa, besides, my reflexes are shot.

 

Mine is 95% as well and I'm very happy it. There are way too many unexpected events during my regular commute including but not limited to bad driving and short lights.

[hybridbear]

I maintained a 100% brake score on the new car for almost 200 miles until I was behind someone who didn't have working brake lights so I didn't realize he was braking in the middle of the freeway and thus had to brake hard. The Lifetime is currently 99%.