Diesel FFH in 2015?

[KLH]

With the sudden love that diesel-powered cars are getting lately (Jetta, Passat, 328d), do you think we'll see a diesel FFH in 2015?

 

Diesel cars are becoming known for being more efficient. The marketing seems to be pushing more miles per gallon versus gasoline cars. Why not pull a Reeses and get both!

 

Hello EPA estimated 75 miles per gallon!

Edited October 8, 2013 by KLH

[corncobs]

Diesel only maybe since it will be available for the European Fusion anyway but a Diesel-Hybrid I'm not so sure because of the higher cost. Diesel engine are already more expensive than gasoline once and so are hybrid power trains which makes the combination even more expensive.

 

If they find a way to make economics work we could get the very best of both worlds. Awesome city mileage from the hybrid and awesome highway mileage from the diesel.

[Ted Swing]

It would get great mileage, but it might push the cost up high enough that it would start to cost almost as much as the Energi. At that point, I don't think it would be worth it, as the plug in would be even better.

[Toz]

That would be great, however I have to wonder if a diesel would be as efficent if it had to start/stop all the time like the ICE in the current hybrids do? I had always heard that diesels were more efficient at constant RPM. It would probably be better as a total electric car with a diesel generator.

[Eddie Sessum]

If they did a diesel it wouldnt be a start-stop. A diesel idling with almost no load uses about 20% of the fuel of our engine. There are reasons why diesel has never really had start stop technology.

 

 

Even than, a very fuel efficent diesel as the ICE that is always on along with regen braking and the elec motors it could prob get 50-55mpg (rated) in the city. More depending on where you live. On the highway a diesel is so efficent id say let it charge the batterys than goto full diesel on the hwy. With the proper setup and CVT (never seen a cvt diesel, someone note what you have seen if you have heard of one). Id say it should easily get 45mpg at 70. Since the diesel will find it alot easier to push against wind resistance.

 

If it comes tho, expect it on the next gen. Atleast 2016, maybe 2017. not sooner.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Eddie Sessum

[hybridbear]

There are a couple reasons why you don't see many diesel hybrids other than from high end automakers like MB who aren't designing cars with peak MPG for the masses but are more focused on meeting European emissions requirements with an expensive car that only a few will buy.

1. Diesels produce their torque at low RPMs, like electric motors, this would duplicate the process and would lack torque at high RPMs
2. Diesels are most efficient at low RPMs and low loads, like electric motors, this is why diesels get such great gas mileage on the freeway at sustained speeds. Gas engines are most efficient under higher loads which is why loading a gas engine up to generate electricity makes for an efficient hybrid. Loading a diesel engine up with a 15 hp load for a generator plus powering the car would not be very efficient
3. Diesel engines cost more to make, adding to the cost of the car
4. I don't believe you can have a diesel that turns on and off as much as the ICE does in a hybrid. I'm not sure a diesel could withstand that wear and tear.

That would be great, however I have to wonder if a diesel would be as efficent if it had to start/stop all the time like the ICE in the current hybrids do? I had always heard that diesels were more efficient at constant RPM. It would probably be better as a total electric car with a diesel generator.

[Eddie Sessum]

Here is another comment for when we might see a diesel hybrid. If ford went to a large elec motor and a separate generator setup like the new accord hybrid. Than at that point the diesel could be kept at the lower rpm running all the time to charge and power the electric drive motors.

 

I could see that being a beneficial point. Also in a few years the savings from battery advances could offset most of the extra cost making the car cost about the same as currently.

[Waldo]

I could see that being a beneficial point. Also in a few years the savings from battery advances could offset most of the extra cost making the car cost about the same as currently.

 

A diesel costs the OEMs about $3000 more to make than a regular gasoline car. A hybrid costs the OEMs about $3000 more to make than a regular gasoline car. So the battery advances will have to make the batteries free to offset the cost of a diesel, though hopefully advances in the diesel after-treatment technology will also bring down those costs.

[Eddie Sessum]

I said most not all.. And with a direct drive system the cvt wouldn't be required. So that is also money savings because as far as I know the cvt in our cars costs even more than the battery to produce.

[acdii]

I believe it has already been proven to be just the opposite. You would think a fuel efficient engine such as a diesel would be a great combo with a hybrid setup, but in fact, because of what has already been stated, is actually less efficient.

 

Besides why would you want a diesel hybrid that gets 50, when the Jetta is almost there as a standard setup?

 

Now if its a smaller 3 cylinder turbocharged diesel with a genset, and an electric drive train, that is a different story, the HVB would not need to be big, and if capacitors where also in the mix for boosts during acceleration, then that could be a viable concept. The diesel can run at optimum speed for fuel efficiency and emissions powering the drive train, and when under minimum load conditions, power down. You wouldn't need to worry about regen braking to recharge the HVB, and no EV mode for city driving.

 

It could make for a lighter car with more trunk space.

Edited October 11, 2013 by acdii

[Eddie Sessum]

I dont even think the diesel should power down. A very small diesel idling without load uses VERY little power and you want a diesel engine to be up to temp if at all possible. I know from my past truck which is the new 6.7 powerstroke that if the motor isnt warmed up completely fuel economy does go down.

 

 

Genset was the proper word I was trying to come up with.

[acdii]

Under load a 3 banger can heat up pretty darn fast( I have a Kubota with one), so a no load at idle was what I was referring too, running at 2100 RPM with no load just wastes fuel, that's where the 3 cylinder Bota engine has peak power and torque, so if you are at a long light, your HVB and capacitors are at max, no reason to have the ICE going full bore. Besides if you look at the temp cycles of the FFH ICE, you will see it swings greatly from cold to warm and back during its cycles. A 3 banger diesel is about half the size of the current 2.0 Ice in our cars, so there would be plenty of room to stash a thermos bottle to maintain coolant temps. Since its also a genset, it can be fully isolated from the rest of the drive train so vibrations wont affect them. Take a Tesla drive train and stick a TDI generator in it, and thats what you get.

 

How far can you go in 8 hours, if you have a 5 gallon tank, and the genset can run full bore 8 hours on it? Pretty sure it can be done, might not be the fastest on wheels, but should be able to be able to stay with a Prius.

[Eddie Sessum]

I heard the accord hybrid thats coming out with the genset setup can burn the tires taking off with TC off and a full charge so power wouldnt be an issue with that form of setup.

 

 

Tesla S with a genset would be great. Even if it didnt give enough charge for performance driving and just made it an extended range on the highway, if it did id spend 70g on it.