2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid Turbo

[cold_fusion]

So this might be a dumb question but here it goes. Is it possible to have a fusion hybrid turbo? I know ford makes a turbo for the ecoboost fusions non hybrid, so why cant there be a turbo hybrid? Is it a space issue? Does it have to do with the hybrid aspect of it?

 

I know how turbos work and they are pretty efficient considering they work by the exhaust leaving the engine and im pretty sure you get better mpg with them, so why has ford not made the turbo an option? Could i use one from the ecoboost non hybrid and put it on a hybrid? Im thinking some extra boost couldnt hurt! :)

[murphy]

The Fusion Hybrid ICE is an Atkinson cycle engine. There is literature describing boost for an Atkinson cycle engine but it has to be designed to match how the ICE works. Doing it incorrectly would probably void the warranty. It could result in combustion temperatures beyond the design limits. Unless you are willing to buy a new engine if the attempt fails it is not a good idea for experimentation.

[cold_fusion]

Murphy. Thanks for the reply. Yeah i agree adding a turbo to a fusion hybrid probably would be a headache. I just dont understand why ford wouldnt make a turbo an option? I did some research and i found vw makes a jetta hybrid with a turbo. So it can be done.

[kuzzi]

Anything is possible as long as you have the money and the know-how. I'm sure the ecoboost turbo would not bolt on directly and would require custom brackets and mounting solutions. Then there's the issue of compression ratio. The Atkinson engine chamber has a ratio of 12:1 which is very near the knock compression for gasoline, but since the engine uses a late closing intake valve design, the actual compression ratio is less. Adding boost with no inter cooling increases the risk of knock, so a different cam design would be necessary or the addition of an intercooler would be required. I believe the ecoboost engines are also direct injected, so the chamber temperature does not matter as much as indirect inject, so they can put a hefty turbo on them and not worry about knock.

 

If a company were to make a turbo kit for the FFH, it would probably be very expensive and not worth the gains. Even adding a turbo kit to my bike would be about $3k without intercooler and it is a relatively simple setup.

 

Ford may have considered designing a turbo Atkinson engine, but it would be much more expensive than what we have now and not worth the research compared to possible sales.

 

The VW turbo hybrid has a legit engine in it, straight up Otto cycle. The electric motor only puts out 25 hp, so it barely does anything. The engine is turbo, intercooled, direct injected, and has 150hp on its own. It operates at normal compression ratios, but it does require premium fuel, so knock could be an issue if using regular unleaded. The engine is only slightly larger than my small Harley. All that being said, it has a nice low pricing for the base model, but that is from a company that turbos EVERYTHING.

[kuzzi]

Addendum, I wouldn't be surprised if VW sticks that 1.4L turbo engine alone in the Euro Golf or small car models.

[SteveB_TX]

From my limited knowledge on the subject, isn't the Atkinson cycle engine used in the Ford/Lincoln hybrids because of it's love of upper RPM ranges in conjunction with the eCVT transmission? The Jetta hybrid has a true automatic transmission (7 speed DSG on the 14), thus, I assume, is why VW stuck a standard Turbo engine in the engine bay. Am I off-track here in my thinking?

[acdii]

There is one reason, and one reason only NOT to put a turbo on the Hybrid. The eCVT. It can handle only so much torque, or it will become a shell game on the road.

 

The Hybrid system is a carefully balanced unit designed for maximum efficiency, while still providing decent power. This is the #1 reason you dont see more cars on the road with CVT transmissions. Ford tried it in the 500/Freestyle line, and after too many complaints and busted transmissions, they pulled it. It's also disconcerting to be driving a car that goes RRRRR instead to rrRRR,rrrRRRRRRR,rrrrRRRRRRRR, ummmmmmm. Only the Hybrids should to that! :)

[SteveB_TX]

Sooooo... I was right? Right? Sort of? :)

[dalesky]

So I'm thinking, take off the hood, supercharge the engine, cut a big hole in the hood., put it back on. The hell with mileage!

[hybridbear]

The VW Jetta with a turbo is a different design than the FFH. The Jetta has a similar setup to the Honda hybrids (save for the new Accord Hybrid) which sandwich a small electric motor between the engine and transmission. The Toyota & Ford hybrids (along with the new Honda Accord Hybrid) use the superior two-motor hybrid design which consists of the ICE and two electric motors with planetary gears acting as the transmission. There is no separate transmission. The eCVT includes both electric motors and the gears that connect them to the ICE.

 

Another reason for no turbo in the hybrid is that the RPMs at which a turbo is effective are not what is needed on a hybrid.

[Sleddog]

I just don't get it... You buy a Hybrid for the mileage (and the tech). Why do folks want to turn it into a hot rod? I'm reading some this stuff about doing engine mods and think "why"? It's a Fusion Hybrid, not a mustang. I'm surprised no one has mentioned or asked about putting a fart can on one. :drop:

[acdii]

I just don't get it... You buy a Hybrid for the mileage (and the tech). Why do folks want to turn it into a hot rod? I'm reading some this stuff about doing engine mods and think "why"? It's a Fusion Hybrid, not a mustang. I'm surprised no one has mentioned or asked about putting a fart can on one. :drop:

SHHHHHHHHHH Thats the last thing I would ever want to hear. Already sounds like a bad gastric problem as it is.

[cold_fusion]

Delete

 

No flaming allowed, Period.

Edited October 9, 2013 by acdii
Flaming

[corncobs]

I'm sorry but I'm with Sleddog and I did ask myself the same question and I'm not an old fart. I did modify my FFH inside and out (very little) but I would never think about "messing" around with high technology car like the Fusion Hybrid and adding a turbo.

 

There are much cooler and less expensive cars out there that can be charged up with crazy mods.

 

All that being said if someone has the cuts to add a turbo to the FFH go for it I will be the first to congratulate.

[Waldo]

There is only one reason to add a turbo to a car, to get more power when you want to operate at high loads. A turbo does not make an engine more efficient, in fact it makes it less efficient when producing high power. A 2,0L turbo producing 200hp burns more gas then a 3.0L V6 producing 200hp. But that 2.0L turbo will burn less gas than the V6 while producing the 50ish hp you need cruising on the freeway, that's why Ford's Ecoboost plan works. But a regular 2.0L non-turbo will burn even less gas making that 50hp for the freeway.

So the turbo is just a device that gives you more power when you want it without sacrificing too much efficiency when you don't need the power. But that's also exactly what the hybrid system does. It uses the electric motor to provide more power when you want it, while keeping things efficient when you don't need it.

To summarize, a turbo is just the same thing as a hybrid system in a less efficient way. So adding a turbo to a hybrid is really just dumb, if you want more power, the better way is to increase the power of the electric motor.

[acdii]

I love watching guys drop power into a car not designed for it. It is very entertaining. One day when I was younger, I watched as some dude who dropped a built V8 into a Vega decided to drag race a ricer. He got about 2 feet when he twisted the car so bad one of the rear tires was 6" off the ground. It was even more entertaining when the windows shattered from the torque.

 

 

The Fusion Hybrid is not designed for a turbo, but if you want to try it, go right ahead, i will just sit here and laugh when you scatter the eCVT all over the road.

[aaronj1159]

Edited No Flaming.

As one of the "young folk" you are apparently talking about, I'd like to publicly distance myself from this comment. Especially due to the attitude displayed.

 

On the subject of adding a turbo to the FFH, I personally don't get it. But different strokes I guess.

Edited October 10, 2013 by acdii

[acdii]

 

 

On the subject of adding a turbo to the FFH, I personally don't get it. But different strokes I guess.

Harumph

Edited October 10, 2013 by acdii

[Sleddog]

Now... back to the topic at hand!

 

:backtotopic:

Edited October 10, 2013 by Sleddog

[acdii]

OK guys, lets keep it sociable here! No flame wars allowed.

 

 

 

Opinions are one thing, but keep the flaming in your head, not in a thread.

Edited October 10, 2013 by acdii

[KLH]

:lurk:

 

So... maybe we're not thinking about this the right way. Can we add laptop batteries so that we can go farther in EV mode?

[corncobs]

:lurk:

 

So... maybe we're not thinking about this the right way. Can we add laptop batteries so that we can go farther in EV mode?

That would be too funny!

[kuzzi]

I like that thinking. Souping up engines is getting boring, let's start souping up the electric components! Amplifier time!

[Waldo]

:lurk:

 

So... maybe we're not thinking about this the right way. Can we add laptop batteries so that we can go farther in EV mode?

 

You mean like the Fusion Energi that Ford already makes...

[acdii]

NONONONO you are ALL going about it wrong, Put some UPS in the back seat, then you can plug the car in to recharge it!