Got the software upgrade finally

[Hustler]

Greetings, thanks to everyone for the great tips and info all in one place. I got my wife a 2013 FFH in January, and it averaged 41.3 mpg here in LA (with maybe two or three long road trips). She had to take it to the dealer twice for the software upgrade--first time, I don't believe the dealer did it right, or maybe they didn't do it at all. This second visit for software has definitely made a difference; we've only reset the lifetime mileage a week ago but are getting around 45.0, with it bouncing up or down about 1 mpg. Managed to get it to 46.0 tonight coming south over the Sepulveda Pass. We were super happy with the car before at 41, I don't know what to call it with an instant 10% improvement in fuel economy!

 

Update to 28 Sep post (25 Oct today): The wife drives the 405 every day, about 40 miles round trip, so a month after the software update it looks like the car is running around 42.8 with 10000 miles on the odometer. She is not a leadfoot and also does not use hypermiling techniques, she runs the A/C whenever she feels like it (which is most of the time, often to help keep the windows from fogging), and she only puts 87 octane in the tank. Speaking of which, I don't recall any thread making any issue for or against higher octane gas. We love the car because where else would you get this kind of quality and luxury in a beautiful car, paired with 40+ mpg? The only thing that irks me is that we've collected numerous dents in the doors already.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Hustler

[hybridbear]

Welcome!

[B25Nut]

I hope Ford has educated most of their dealer's so that they do all the steps involved with the update correctly. When done right, the updated FFH doesn't need a hard reset. I'm glad to hear your dealer got it right, Hustler. The update seems to adapt our FFHs to California style driving.

[acdii]

I hope Ford has educated most of their dealer's so that they do all the steps involved with the update correctly. When done right, the updated FFH doesn't need a hard reset. I'm glad to hear your dealer got it right, Hustler. The update seems to adapt our FFHs to California style driving.

I dont think the hard reset and the update together is what is fixing some cars. Coincidence mostly, but the hard reset which wipes the tables clean and retraining the car to be a Hybrid is what is helping them the most. The Update is a real fix though for most cars, such as yours, congrats BTW on finally having it working well.

[Twinkle]

Glad to hear that the upgrade is working in LA. I live in Orange County and I have yet to do the upgrade. I am hoping ford will work out any kinks before I do it. I have been satisfied with the FFH. I get on average about 41 mpg. I am still leary about the upgrade.

[Riggo]

I dont think the hard reset and the update together is what is fixing some cars. Coincidence mostly, but the hard reset which wipes the tables clean and retraining the car to be a Hybrid is what is helping them the most. The Update is a real fix though for most cars, such as yours, congrats BTW on finally having it working well.

I've never really understood the thinking behind the "training" of the car. Is this a fact or is this something that some think is the case? I find it strange that if you start out driving one way, the "wrong way," then your car is destined for failure if you change the driving habits later. Is there documentation that you have to drive it a certain way at the beginning or your car will be setup for failure? I'm not saying you're wrong at all, I just find it weird that a car would function this way. If it did, i'd expect the dealer to educate buyers exactly how they should drive. My dealer certainly didn't.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Riggo

[acdii]

I would say very few dealers have someone on hand that knows as much about these cars as some of us do. The computers do learn your driving habits, and once those tables are built it takes a long time for any changes to rebuild them. On non hybrids, they learn the most efficient shift points, and how best to provide the power curves the driver wants based on their driving. The Hybrid does something similar. It takes several hundred miles for the programming to be complete.

[Riggo]

I would say very few dealers have someone on hand that knows as much about these cars as some of us do. The computers do learn your driving habits, and once those tables are built it takes a long time for any changes to rebuild them. On non hybrids, they learn the most efficient shift points, and how best to provide the power curves the driver wants based on their driving. The Hybrid does something similar. It takes several hundred miles for the programming to be complete.

Ah. Well that's good to know then. That stinks if someone buys a used car from someone that didn't know how to drive it right and the buyer didn't know about the hard reset. I blame Ford for not properly educating their sales force :-P.

[tr7driver]

Is there a way to clear this and have the car re-learn your "good" habits?

[hybridbear]

Glad to hear that the upgrade is working in LA. I live in Orange County and I have yet to do the upgrade. I am hoping ford will work out any kinks before I do it. I have been satisfied with the FFH. I get on average about 41 mpg. I am still leary about the upgrade.

You should get the PCM reprogramming done. It makes a difference because it allows the car to turn off the ICE when the coolant is cooler. It also allows the car to turn off the ICE more when the heat is on. It probably isn't worth a special trip to the dealer just for the update, but at your next service for other things it would be worth having them do it.

 

Is there a way to clear this and have the car re-learn your "good" habits?

Here are the instructions: http://fordfusionhybridforum.com/topic/7998-hard-reset/

[Waldo]

I would say very few dealers have someone on hand that knows as much about these cars as some of us do. The computers do learn your driving habits, and once those tables are built it takes a long time for any changes to rebuild them. On non hybrids, they learn the most efficient shift points, and how best to provide the power curves the driver wants based on their driving. The Hybrid does something similar. It takes several hundred miles for the programming to be complete.

 

This is actually one of those automotive "myths". I don't know specifically about the hybrid, but all other Fords do not learn "driving habits". What they learn are transmission variables that are part of the normal production variation. Once it learns the detailed tolerances of all the transmission parts, the computer can optimize the shift smoothness and timing, but it doesn't change the response based on a given pedal input. No matter how you drive, the computer will eventually re-learn the same tolerance adjustments. It usually takes about 25 miles to "rough-in" the learning, then it's pretty much done by 200 miles.

[acdii]

Hybrid computers have a lot more programming to them, and it is true that you can teach it bad habits. We really dont know what goes on inside those little brain boxes, but compared to a regular car, you can muck up the works by hot rodding it from a fresh start on the computers, and it takes longer to self correct once you do. There is a lot involved in the Hybrid system that a regular doesn't have, like the regen, batteries, electric drive train, atkinson cycles, and all of it is drive by wire. The computer learns all the variables for these systems as you drive it, so if you are hard on the brakes, and dont do enough regen, it learns this is the parameter for this car, braking returns x amount of regen, if you are a hard started from lights, it learns this throttle curve too, and all these add up to a mucked up set of parameters that the car runs off of. The computer will relearn once you start driving it correctly, but takes a lot longer to do so than a hard reset does.

 

I never did a hard reset on the BD, but on my current one I drove it off the lot with 3 miles on it and drove it very Prius like for at least 500 miles and it has been trouble free ever since. What I thought was a hard reset by disconnecting the 12V wasn't, you have to disconnect the HVB too.

 

My 2010 when I first got it had 1100 miles on it driven by different people and it didn't start out getting good MPG until I had about 2500 miles more on it, then it started getting much better MPG and remained that way until I traded it.

[hybridbear]

This is actually one of those automotive "myths". I don't know specifically about the hybrid, but all other Fords do not learn "driving habits". What they learn are transmission variables that are part of the normal production variation. Once it learns the detailed tolerances of all the transmission parts, the computer can optimize the shift smoothness and timing, but it doesn't change the response based on a given pedal input. No matter how you drive, the computer will eventually re-learn the same tolerance adjustments. It usually takes about 25 miles to "rough-in" the learning, then it's pretty much done by 200 miles.

Ford is the one who has told owners that this is how the hybrids work. When owners have complained about MPGs, Ford has told them to give the car 1000 miles to "learn" their driving habits. After the PCM update was done it took at least a few hundred miles for the car to "learn" the new parameters for turning off at colder coolant temps. It wasn't an instant change in behavior. I agree that conventional cars don't do the same type of learning that the hybrids do, but the hybrids are a whole different animal.

[Texasota]

The computer learns all the variables for these systems as you drive it, so if you are hard on the brakes, and dont do enough regen, it learns this is the parameter for this car, braking returns x amount of regen, if you are a hard started from lights, it learns this throttle curve too, and all these add up to a mucked up set of parameters that the car runs off of. The computer will relearn once you start driving it correctly, but takes a lot longer to do so than a hard reset does.

There are very few on this forum that regularly provide the level of detailed information that you have concerning the design, engineering, programming, and detailed techical aspects of the 2013+ FFHs. I am curious how you obtained this level of detailed knowledge on the FFHs - have you received similar training from Ford that the Ford service technicians are required to obtain?

[acdii]

Nope, just played a mechanic in a previous life. I have a highly technical background with cars going back to my first teardown in a 1967 Chevy C30 292 straight 6. I also have a background in computers going back to a Timex Sinclair 1600, in fact somewhere I still have a 2068 Color Computer in the box. Back in the early 90's I blueprinted a Ford 302/5.0 in our old 1979 LTD wagon, and drove that car into the ground with 300k on the motor alone. I played with various cam setups, and timing setups, but always with a 2 barrel Motorcraft carb. I also drove an 18 wheeler for a few years, and can say I have at least 1 Million miles of driving under my belt(so thats where that came from). I also worked a lot with electrical systems and Turret Punch Press programming and maintenance, anyone remember bubble memory? How about punch tape for transferring programs. Back in the 80's I built a machine that could fold sheet metal screens to make into filters that were used at Ohare United terminal. It used a series of switches and timed relays along with a braking system that would rotate the table 190* and stop so a worker could insert a rod, then would rotate back 190* and stop again so another rod could be inserted. The time relay was so that the motor could slow down towards the end of travel so it wouldn't slam into the locks, then the system would go into a fail safe position and would not move until the resume button was pressed. So after the rod was inserted, they would press the go button and it would do its thing. The controller also timed the spooler so there was always tension on the screen. During this time I also worked on building RF Induction heaters, and got a lot of time on a Lathe and Bridegport. Looking back, I learned a lot of different skills.

 

For several years in the 90's I was lead mechanic at a shop in Mchenry doing everything from changing a tire to complete engine and tranny teardowns and rebuilds, along with alignments, suspension and brakes, and had ASE in several areas. This was during the transition phases to OBDII, so I have equipment still from the first gen computer systems and a breakout box for all Fords up to 1995. Its interesting to see the bus between the engine harness and computer where you can tap into every component and measure the voltages going through the systems. When I got my 1999 F350 Powerstroke Diesel, I had a whole new learning curve where I learned about the computers training themselves and how the various sensors told other sensors what they can and can't do and when the transmission can shift and when it has to stay out of OD. I also learned what Shift Flare is and something I would not want to ever have again, especially with 600 HP at the flywheel. This is where I learned about the tables in the computer and how the parameters can be tweaked to adjust for fuel flow, pressures, timing, and all that good stuff that makes power and also increases fuel efficiency.

 

I got my first hybrid on 2007 with a Prius and thats where I learned all about these cars. My current HyTi is my 5th Hybrid. You learn something new everyday on these cars. Driving these for so many years and putting a ton of miles on is how I discovered the training trick that others have also discovered. If I wanted to I could muck up my cars computer in less than a tank and it will take several tanks of good driving to get it back to where it was. It learns how you drive and tries to best compensate for your driving habits and deliver what you ask for while also trying to maximize fuel efficiency, but bad habits can break it, so a clean start and driving conservatively for the first 1000 miles can train the systems to perform at peak and deliver best fuel efficiency. It was in my 2010 FFH that I discovered this, when I went a week driving like a nut, racing from red lights, braking at the last minute, and just driving like an idiot, and my MPG dropped like a rock, and it took two weeks to recover from that, although the car had more pep during that time too. :)

 

I would love to teardown these systems and see how each and every one works to get a better understanding. Its like an automatic transmission, when you see a diagram of it, you think, how the heck does that work, then when you actually start to disassemble it, and see how each part functions with the next, then it makes complete sense. Even better would be to see it in realtime on a computer as each part delivers its power to the wheels. I have a program from the early OBDII days that I could run with a conversion box that connected the OBDII port to a serial port on the laptop and you could see everything on the computer in real time. Shift points, fuel flows, ignition timing, sensor inputs, rpms of various components, coolant, intake and EG temps.

 

My first engine was so simple, fuel to the carb, needles to adjust mixtures, points and dwell for the spark, and a timing light to adjust the timing. You could tune an engine by ear, and they ran great, for a while, until the points wore down, or the temperature dropped, then you had a crappy running engine and had to retune, today computers do it all without any intervention.

Edited February 18, 2014 by acdii

[Texasota]

Nope, just played a mechanic in a previous life. I have a highly technical background with cars going back to my first teardown in a 1967 Chevy C30 292 straight 6. I also have a background in computers going back to a Timex Sinclair 1600, in fact somewhere I still have a 2068 Color Computer in the box.

 

The technology in today's cars is increasing at a rapid rate and this is especially true for hybrids. This will only accelerate in the future as a result of healthy competition between the manufactures and also from MPG and environmental mandates from the federal government. The amount of technology in these cars, including mind boggling amounts of software, makes it impossible for any single Ford engineer to have a detailed knowledge of all this technology. I think it is likely that the legions of Ford engineers have detailed and deep knowledge in their own area of specialty and it is likely they have a high level understanding of many other areas of the technology in these cars. But it is very unlikely any single person can master all of it. Our Ford technicians at our dealerships face a daunting task to service these vehicles even with the extensive training that they receive from Ford.

 

You have obtained a very strong technical background from your previous lives and this forum benefits from all the information you have shared. I have learned a lot from you and thank you for the information you have provided to my questions in the past. However, much of the detailed and highly technical FFH information in your posts is frequently presented as concrete facts as opposed to reasonable speculation and conjecture based on your extensive technical background. I'm only suggesting you consider this when composing your posts that contain detailed technical information.

[corncobs]

IMO it has been working very well!

I think when acdii's posts something it's made from a lot of life experience seasoned with some good common sense.

[acdii]

IMO it has been working very well!

I think when acdii's posts something it's made from a lot of life experience seasoned with some good common sense.

Yep, pretty much sums it up. A lot is based on theory from previous experiences. Some of it is from personal factual experiences and observations. Some is pure speculation. I have a logical mind too, which tends to look at point Z and try to determine how I got there. Some days I never get past B.

 

This year I turn a half Century old, How the hell did I get this old so fast!

[DeeCee]

Fifty is not old you youngster!

[murphy]

Fifty is not old you youngster!

+1

[acdii]

See, all you OLD farts, that went right over your heads. Guess old age does make you shrink :)

[tr7driver]

Kids these days.....