FFH Warm Up Stages

[NewHiTi21]

Easy way to prove it. Get in the car and start (tap the gas pedal to get the engine to start) it instead of using the remote. Then you will see how much fuel is being wasted. It is still not as bad as a non hybrid at least the battery is charging while it warms up but don't think for a second it is not using any fuel.

[GrySql]

:lurk:

 

[rjent]

Yup, this could go on for ever. :love_shower:

 

I think if your over all mileage is where you want it to be, and you are saving gas at the pump over your last vehicle, what difference does it make ... :bliss:

:lurk:

 

[Waldo]

 

Think about it, do you really think, as anal as Ford is being with the software and the EPA, if remote start was an issue of lost efficiency, they would even allow it .... I rest my case LOL

 

The EPA doesn't consider remote start in any of it's tests, so Ford doesn't give a hoot how much fuel is burned during remote start.

[jsolan]

Remote start absolutely burns fuel that is not tracked by the computer. I've gone through as much as 1.5-2 gallons over the course of a tank using remote start. I always reset my trip 2 when I fill up and have put in as much as 11 gallons when the computer told me I've only burned 9. After taking out a max of .5 gallon that it's off when I don't use remote start, that leaves at least 1.5 burned from keeping myself warm. Usually it's not that high, but that particular tank was 2 straight weeks of no highs over 20 degrees so my remote start ran longer and more often. I still managed 33 mpg overall according the the pump, but since the computer only counts mpg for driving miles, it claimed I got a little over 40 mpg.

Now that I don't need remote start as much anymore, the computer's gallons used are falling back in line with the amount I pump in.

 

While I understand what you're saying with the warm up stages, it all depends on just how long you let it idle. It might/probably would improve overall mileage if you only let it warm up enough to work it's way through the warm up stages, but it definitely hurts overall mileage if you let it actually warm up the inside of the vehicle. And there's nothing wrong with that. I've never seen a 30+ mpg tank on any car or truck I've ever had, so to see this one do it in the dead of winter while keeping me comfortable is incredible.

 

I understand the logic, but I agree to disagree. I keep logs on every fill up and mileage. I don't see a drop or gain in MPG on a tank full using remote over cold start and I have done it both ways with purpose. The minuscule amount of gas used is less, IMHO than the gas used to drive while road warming the engine. Also, (I can't prove this yet as I am working with my Ford tech) but the fuel used during remote start IS recorded and calculated in the over all milage, it is just so small, it doesn't show. You guys can say what you will, but I am convinced it works. I have literally walked out in sub 30* weather and "remote" started standing next to it and let it run until it shuts off. I am telling you, there is no significant fuel burn, there can't be. I think it works because it runs through the three stages without a load on the engine. That engine is so efficient, particularly not under load (except charging the battery for a short time), the fuel burn is negligible. It doesn't run very long at all, most of the time less than the allotted time for warm up. Is the water up to 180*? No, it doesn't have to be. You have to make sure you aren't heating the seats and you are not running the compressor (covered in other threads), but with that said....

 

Think about it, do you really think, as anal as Ford is being with the software and the EPA, if remote start was an issue of lost efficiency, they would even allow it .... I rest my case LOL

[acdii]

In a way remote start will improve fuel economy since you are starting out with a warmed up ICE, full battery, AND heat inside the car. Just don't go by the trip counters, do the math yourself. The ICE will burn more fuel when everything is cold while driving, than it will burn warming up by remote since it has to do triple duty, charge the pack, propel the car, and provide heat. How much of a gain all depends on how long it runs during a remote start. It is set to 10 minutes by default, in my case I usually am in it and driving away in around 5 minutes, just enough to charge the pack and warm it up. By rough estimates its about 2 MPG less than your trip summary shows when using RS. It is still a gain, but not as much as the TS would have you believe.

[Eric.C.Boston]

Hello,

 

When I first got my 2015 FFH I noticed the car would skip Stage 0 and go right into Stage 1A in the morning. It would do Stage 0 in the evening after sitting 9 hours. Stage 0 returned in the morning with warmer temperatures. It appears below a certain outdoor temperature (30 degrees F?), or coolant temperature, the ICE will immediately come on when the Start Button is pressed.

 

73 Eric

[hybridbear]

Something I haven't seen covered.. What is "full" warmup temp to the point where if needed the cooling fans will come on and thermostat opens?

Grille sutters begin opening once the ICE coolant temp exceeds about 200 F. Cooling fans won't come on until the ICE temp exceeds 220 F. I doubt this would ever happen unless you're driving up a mountain with grille blocking.

 

Hello,

 

When I first got my 2015 FFH I noticed the car would skip Stage 0 and go right into Stage 1A in the morning. It would do Stage 0 in the evening after sitting 9 hours. Stage 0 returned in the morning with warmer temperatures. It appears below a certain outdoor temperature (30 degrees F?), or coolant temperature, the ICE will immediately come on when the Start Button is pressed.

 

73 Eric

Is this the case for all 2015+ FFHs?

[BoatDrinksQ5]

My 2015 warmup appears heavily dictated by HVAC/Temperature settings - so my guess is likely that is what is driving the that Stage0 vs 1a difference.

 

HOwever I seem to recall when it was colder that the engine almost immediately started up (hvac off) and I hadn't touched the gas.... (don't recall SOC, but i think it was above 15 or 20%). I think in some cases Ford programmed things to be a bit predictive based on temperatures and charge...etc.

 

Still new <5k mi... so not so sure. Not looking forward to a MN winter... haha

Edited October 27, 2015 by BoatDrinksQ5

[ptjones]

My 2015 warmup appears heavily dictated by HVAC/Temperature settings - so my guess is likely that is what is driving the that Stage0 vs 1a difference.

 

HOwever I seem to recall when it was colder that the engine almost immediately started up (hvac off) and I hadn't touched the gas.... (don't recall SOC, but i think it was above 15 or 20%). I think in some cases Ford programmed things to be a bit predictive based on temperatures and charge...etc.

 

Still new <5k mi... so not so sure. Not looking forward to a MN winter... haha

What gauge were you looking at to come up with 15-20% SOC? With the ScanGauge II the lowest I've seen is 29% and the ICE barely started. :drop:

 

Paul

[BoatDrinksQ5]

oh, just the basic gauge indicator on the dash.

 

seems like when it shows about 20% left on the dash it will hardly allow any pedal pressure without the engine starting. My thought at first was that in cooler temperatures the car (even with hvac off) knows that the battery is super low, so it might as well turn engine on to get temperature up even without a demand for more power. But that doesn't jive with the noted sequence above or efficiency.

[ptjones]

Smart Gauge 20% = ScanGauge II 38% approx. ;) In normal use EV works between 38% and 50%, you go much above that and EV assist comes on. :)

 

Paul

Edited March 13, 2017 by ptjones

[Vlad Soare]

If I understand correctly, in S1a the ICE is not supposed to power the wheels. However, in my car this doesn't seem to be the case. Immediately after a cold start my Engage screen shows that the ICE is driving the wheels, and the upper arrow above the battery gauge is displayed while the car is moving.

The electric motor drives the wheels if I happen to be reversing, but as soon as I switch to D the blue bar disappears, and the ICE takes over.

Maybe there was a change in the algorithm in the meantime? Could the latest models be programmed differently? Or am I missing anything?

Edited March 12, 2017 by Vlad Soare

[murphy]

It is physically impossible for the ICE to move the car in reverse.

 

If the HVB charge level is too low then the ICE must be used. They will never let the HVB get below a minimum level. The HVB is what starts the ICE. If the HVB got discharged the car would be dead since there would be no way to start the ICE.

[talmy]

If I understand correctly, in S1a the ICE is not supposed to power the wheels. However, in my car this doesn't seem to be the case. Immediately after a cold start my Engage screen shows that the ICE is driving the wheels, and the upper arrow above the battery gauge is displayed while the car is moving.

 

 

Don't get too carried away with all of this. All of those states (S1a, for instance) are from Toyota documentation. Our Camry Hybrid and Fusion Hybrid are programmed completely different even though the basic design of the engine/drive train are the same!